Sub 3



  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    I hope CD is enjoying a large stein of Budweiser after that grand effort.  Certainly at the upper end of his expectations.👍
  • As TR said, the tracker is awesome - splits every mile.  So he'll know that once over the bridge at the start I was on fairly even pacing, and on for something a bit quicker than 2:40.  Going on feel rather than pace though, which seemed sensible but I misjudged it a little - there's a deceptive drag uphill as you come along 5th avenue towards Central Park, and by the time I was going into the park pace had dropped and I had a massive stitch under my ribcage, which wasn't very pleasant.  Jogged it in a bit from there, and Ieven allowed myself a little wobbly walk for few yards on the south side, just so that the finish might be a bit more enjoyable.  Scores on doors 2:41:23, less than a minute slower than VLM in April on a more difficult course, so very happy with that.  Beer o'clock now.  

    Longer report to follow in due course.  I'm sure you all understand...
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cracking stuff Dave, i was hoping youd beat yr vlm rime as the predicted time was ahead of it for a long time. But still a bloody fast time on a harder course, youve had a great year. Enjoy the beers.
  • Enjoy enjoy the beer Dave - sounds as though you earned it!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Great work Dave.
  • Awesome, CD.  Hope you enjoyed your well earned beers!

    7.5 for me this morning.  Had the weekend off as I've been feeling really tired and heavy legged for 10 days now.  Bit better this morning, although still very tired.  I'll try going to bed earlier tonight!
  • Splendid work CD!

    Not much to report here -- now had 2 weeks off running, and actually there's nothing left niggle-wise so I might start running again soon. I've been doing some extra bike miles to keep some fitness though.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    RJR - Nice one toughed out, another long run knocked off.  
    CD - Another top top run.  You must have run sub 2.4X or better for the 5 majors run?  When the 6 majors come, cannot think too many people will be recording times like that.  Not bad of a fellow old codger. 
  • Great effort Dave. Didn't realise who you were until you mentioned your first time going sub 3. We've battled it out at parkrun quite a few times and you must one of the most consistent runners around! Tracked you and Mike at New York yesterday and like TR said thought you might sneak under 2:40 for a time. All the same, a time to be very proud of. Looking forward to the full review.

    5 miles recovery today. Long weekend in Tenerife coming up which may test the mileage but I'm feeling good about running at the moment so it is easier to get out of the door in this state. Couple of 20 mile runs to go and some consistency in between and i'll be ready to go.
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    that's sensational stuff CD.  No idea why, but i did expect it!  maybe becuase you are so good/consistent...

    RJR hope you can get on top of the stomach issues in the next few long runs, don't want them scuppering your chances, but sounds like you have sub 3 well within your grasps.

    Family weekend away, so i didn't run Fri/Sat/Sun, thought that might help sort out my glute pain.  NOPE...  the 2.5 hour drive back istelf had me feeling the same pain as driving too/from Abingon.  I guess its all linked to my nerve issues in lower back so not sure i can do much, but am even considering a trip back to the physio.  Did a treadmill 12km today, including 2 x 3km at about 5km pace with plenty of other jogging, but it just felt sore/hard the whole time even when just jogging.

    TR yeah thanks for pointing out my lack of ability to add, you are right the P&D 18 weeker starts a week earlier than i had it.  I wont be doing that as off skiing for Xmas so the aim is to try for the 70-85 one but cut it a week short.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    CW - impressive restraint. Are you going to mix things up a bit for vlm?

    Selbs - ill get on it in the new year too. Apart from the odd extra mile or so on some of the runs, most of the extra milesge between the 75 and 85+ plan is more doubles. I dont plan on doing doubles, so will just do the key runs from the longer plan.
  • Could it be your piriformis selbs?
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • RJR - ah, you're that Joe.  Good to put a face to the name!  Yes, Mike's been chasing 3 hours for a few years now, then he does it twice in 3 weeks.

    OO - Yes, two 2:3X and three 2:4X so far.  No pressure for Tokyo then!

    Selbs - I'm glad you had some faith, because I didn't!  Probably because I've had a shocker or two after going in over-confident, so I end up talking myself out of it, then end up doing OK.

    So, on to NY itself.  It is, by any measure, a big event.  read up online beforehand and you hear about the rolling course, the PITA logistics and the amazing crowds lining the course.  Most of which is true.  Logistically, you do need to get yourself organised - ferry or bus to the start (we opted for the midtown bus, and a hotel not too far from the finish), poncho or bag drop (poncho for a quicker exit from the park, using old clothes to 'donate' at the start). 

    It all sounds like a nightmare from a marathon prep perspective, but it's a well-oiled machine, to be fair and having having boarded our bus at 6am, we (my clubmate Dave and I) spent 90 minutes in air-conditioned comfort before being dropped off on Statten Island in time to queue for the loo, and then straight into the start corralls with 40 minutes to go.  A lot better than the anticipated hours of waiting in the cold. 

    I was on the orange start, which is roughly equivalent to the VLM red start, while Dave was on blue behind the elites.  Without really trying to get near the front I round myself just yards behind the line, giving a clean getaway from the cannon.  The rolling nature of the course is immediately apparent as the first mile climbs the Verrannazo Narrows bridge, and the second mile goes down the other side.  Either of which can wreck your race if you get a bit too carried away.  I try to run on feel but it was actually reassuring to see the first mile go through in a tardy 6:37 or so, knowing that was likely to be the slowest mile for a while.

    The starts join after 2.5 miles, although orange and blue stay on opposite sides of the road for another 6 miles or so through Brooklyn.  Dave appeared 40m in front as the blue start appeared on our right, and he stayed there until I finally caught him at 9 miles, pacing nicely at 6 minute miles but feeling easy and making sure the effort didn't creep up as the gradient varied.

    This race is supposed to be famous for the crowds, and I have to say they were the loudest I've experienced - just insanely noisy.  To the extent that the odd block without crowds, or the bridges that were spectator-free, came almost as a relief.

    Up to halfway in 78:30, which is the sort of time I was doing when I used to run 2:3X at VLM, and I had some thoughts of a repeat, but the little inclines kept reminding me that it wouldn't be so easy.  And then came the queensboro bridge at 15 miles.  A mile or so of relentless climb, with no spectators, and by now not many other runners for company.  Dave dropped back at this point, and from there it was largely solo.  Up north along 1st Avenue, 2 miles in a few seconds over the 2 hour mark, and into the Bronx, which seems like a token visit because you're in and out fairly quickly.  At this point the course, having consisted mainly of long straight roads, takes a few twists and turns and my pace drifted a little.  Still feeling decent though, as we headed back into Manhatten.

    Through Harlem and towards Central Park along 5th Avenue, there's a long drag, not very steep at all but enough to require a bit of work at just the point where the tank is starting to get a bit dry.  That's where the course bit me hard, and at the top as we turned into Central Park with less than three to go I was trying to breathe a painful stitch out while not losing too much time.  

    The crowds through the park are deep which was great, but the course doesn't let up, with a few more ups and downs just to catch out the unwary.  I was just getting back by this point, happy that the time was going to be decent, and on the south side inside the last half mile I permitted myself a short walk, to take a few deep breaths and compose myself for the last little rise towards the finish.

    Final time was 2:41:23, 45s slower than VLM in April, but on a course that isn't particularly challenging in the scheme of things but really needs repeat goes to properly get it right, I would think.  4th in age group, so very happy with that too.  Certainly merited a few beers last night!
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    Nice report CD, brings back memories for me.  4th in age group in an iconic race like that is awesome asa well and puts it more in perspective how good a run it was.  Its a natural positive split course that one too so held it together well including a walk!

    LMH - most likely yes something like that, and maybe related to a disc bulge in lower back as well.  Has been sore from before Abingdon right through to now, just feels like sore hamstrings and sore glutes, and sometimes a stabbing pain when running, just never comfortable.  Rest doesnt seem to have made any difference either.  Driving a car for more than 45 minutes becomes really painful!  It's really holding me back now i think so i guess best to try something (i.e. thoughts of trip to physio), but some googling on priformis treatments first might be a plan.

  • Fourth in age group is amazing Dave.

    selbs - a cheap, effective but painful thing to try is a small spiky massage ball. Sit on that and roll around until it really hurts then stay in that position for a minute before releasing and repeating. I brought my spiky ball on holiday to help after all the sitting down.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    A very fine report CD, good to see you managed the start logistics well.  Marvellous also to see another performance of great consistency too, surely the equivalent of a punch on the nose for old father time. :)

    Selbs.. I had similar a few years back. I had to take a pain killer if I was in a car or a plane for over an hour or so, or indeed on a run more than 5m.  No amount of manipulation or stretching would shift it so I had an injection in the end - cured in 4 days.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    CD - that's an awesome run, to get 4th in your AG at NY is top notch.

    OO - very sensible and still very solid training-wise, and you're probably in better shape for this week than if you'd done the marathon.

    menn - great to hear you're back into some decent training, hope it continues.

    CW - 2 weeks off will have done you good. You'll be chomping at the bit on the first run back!

    Nothing much to report from me. About 2.5M with the family (Mrs P, mini-P and the dog) on Saturday morning before the rugby, then 14M on Sunday done as 3 undulating laps of 4.4M progressively (30:00, 29:30, 27:40) plus cooldown. Then 5M easy yesterday lunchtime.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Excellent report CD, im with wardi you did your prep well re logistics and course.  Awesome to be 4th in AG. Did you do anything different in training for this race?

    Selbs - probably worth some more phys ? Im trying to make a better effort re my back, but at the mo all the s and c and exercises is making me ache at times inc my stomach/groin issues.

    10x3min today as an introduction to some quicker work again, was ok at the time but my back and groin issues are a bit moany now. Nice to be going a bit quicker. I wore my flynits for the first time in case i use them at Gosport, seemed very stiff but i guess thats the idea, and I'd get used to them.
  • Well done Dave - Cracking time and placing.

    Crikey - thats a fair reintroduction to speedwork TR, Fair does.

  • CD - 4th in the AG at a major is seriously impressive! 40/30,752 based on age-grading is probably the best stat from your run, amazing stuff!

    Some random intervals for me today within a 10k. Since I moved to a new area I've been wanting to pick up some local crowns on Strava (local bragging rights). Got 4/5 that I went for (mix of 400s and 800s). Gutted to miss out on the toughest one (900m/2:48) by one second. C'est la vie.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    runjoerun - I would berate you for going for Strava segments, but I do occasionally target one. I accidentally picked up about 4 of them the other day when doing a session of running hard up some hills and easy back down - I genuinely didn't know they were all segments...

    TR - nice session, that sort of thing should do you a lot of good given I reckon you've got great endurance at the moment.

    700m ish road intervals last night, starting every 4 mins. The session was 10 of them, but it was getting late, I had to go to the supermarket on the way home, and my achilles was fairly sore for the whole session, so I bailed at 8.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    OO - I would have done the same faced with the prospect of wading for a few miles. 

    CD - great run and enjoyed your report. I don't know much about NYC but you painted a vivid picture of the route and logistics. Congrats on the ag placing too. 

    Menn - great to see some consistency returning.

    Jj91 - lol at Strava crown chasing. Apparently I lost a crown I never knew I had won the other day. There is a guy local to me who sets them all and goes out at strange times to regain them if he loses them. I've read some garmins have them built in now and will alert when approaching them etc.  

    TR - ooof nice reps there, back into the swing of things quickly. 

    I'm still enjoying no running like CW. Unlike CW I'm not protecting my fitness by cycling! All good though, needed to hit the reset button. Have some sniffles but so far haven't fallen too far off the cliff I think. I must admit the itch is getting itchier as this week goes on. 
  • I do know people who seem to make it their mission to have as many as possible. And as you say SJ people go to great lengths to do it. I do wonder when I get a crown how the person who held it before feels when they get that notification they've lost it! It's a nice motivational tool when you do all your running on your own, definitely got me working harder for longer than I otherwise would. I'm always aware that I've probably stolen it by a few seconds working at my max off a 14:xx 5k runner out for a long run...

    Nice session Padams. Damn that life getting in the way of running. Sounds sensible to cut it short.

    SJ/CW - Some serious restraint there in not running. Funny how in the midst of training you think it would be lovely to have some time off the feet but post event it's the complete opposite. Christmas is one of my favourite times to run so I'd like to be back up and running after a few works but then there's a lot of drink to drink in December!
  • CD - loved the report, epic run, brilliant time on that course and fantastic to be 4th in AG. Kudos! Certainly earned those beers. 

    Big fan of that session TR - will get you in decent shape. 

    Was over in Chamonix this weekend as an early birthday present from Katie (I go from 2x to 3x on Sunday..) - on our way we took in parkrun du Lac de Divonne, which was a fast course but very damp and windy. I went out way too hard trying to stay with the first two guys, got dropped at 3km, and had to run in solo. Ended up with 18:05 - progress but still lots of work to do. 

    Katie is now in a boot and on crutches, but as an addict, couldn't resist walking the course in just under an hour. Chamonix was cracking, and managed a long run on the trails Sunday morning - definitely see the attraction of UTMB and the like.

    Back home now and 3x10 min tempo this morning with a bag and laptop on my back - not that fun. Setting myself up for a few beers this weekend alongside some running. 

    Yet to decide on a Valencia target/plan, will wait and see how things pan out in the next couple of weeks. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Padams - supermarket on your run home or after the session?

    Joe - you get around ! In your shoes id aim for something slow enough to have an enjoyable day at valencia, but quick enough to light your mojo up for 2020. Sub 2.50?

    After 2 easy and light weeks, i thought a more normal week this week and then a taper week would set me up for gosport rather than 4 easy weeks. Its been a long year with Brighton, Yeovil and Abo and im not really up for it again yet, but hopefully I'll be fresh enough to find a bit of eye of the tiger next week. No point getting too excited until the weather forecast this time next week anyway.
  • TR - I don't think I did anything radically different in training for this one, although in hindsight the slightly faster-paced runs with the lunchtime group over the local hills won' have done any harm.

    RJR - I noticed that in the stats as well, I haven't seen a race rank by WAVA score before and it's nice to know where you stand.  I used to do that 'Strava segment interval session' on occasion a few years ago, when there were three of us trading the local ones.  Good fun and adds a bit of variety, but I can't get near them now. 

    JoeB - good to see Katie on the mend, hopefully the boot will be off soon.  I'll bet you get tempted to go for a quick one at Valencia if conditions are good.
  • CD - you back in blighty now? I'm sure I'll get tempted once Valencia rolls around. Logging some ok training now, so I think 2:45 could be possible, but won't tether myself to a target. Definitely won't be anywhere near PB shape. 
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    TR - no, I've had to start driving to the club sessions as the rental property is a little bit further from the club. Only about 3.5M but would make for a long evening if I ran there.

    If I were you I'd be tempted to really cut back on the miles until Gosport and focus on some faster stuff. Just lots of strides and stuff. You might even enjoy not having to rack up all the distance!

    JoeB - I'd love to go to the Alps in the summer but it doesn't seem to be a great holiday for a young child so it might have to wait a few years.

    6M yesterday lunchtime for me, a lot of it offroad and quite muddy. I won't be able to run today but have done 20M already this week which is a reasonable total for me at this stage.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    CD - i think those lunchtime fast tempos are a good session for you as we have said before. Another plus for my thinking on us older folks doing some fast work each week. P and D have backed it up to with edition 3.

    Padams - mmmm, that would be a long wu and wd. Same thinking here, ive knocked the miles right back (not that they were high) and im repeating my Abo taper as of today.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    The weather has been lousy up here today, almost non-stop rain, windy & cold.  Gave up waiting for it to stop and banged a few miles out on the treadie.  Worse down Sheffield & Derbyshire way (flooding) so I hope LMH isn't badly affected. 

    JoeB.. get yourself in as decent a shape as possible, Valencia is a flat/fast course as I'm sure you remember so opportunity knocks! 

    RunJoe.. I try and run every day over Xmas/New Year too, then I don't have to worry about treats & indulgences.  My local Park Run (York) was fabulous on Xmas day last year, lots of Christmas dress/trimmings and a great atmosphere.
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