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  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    That doesn't sound like much fun recently then Joe with the Achilles issue. Glad to hear its largely behind you now. 

    Starting out slowly has never bothered me Wardi. I wouldn't drive my car at 100mph from cold so always use that analogy. I was looking forward to parkrun return as I was going to turn up more regularly than I have done. The bike is a great option in this heat although still warm for any athletic pursuits. Nice getting 10+ done this morning before the big yellow thing made an appearance. 

    Glad the back has eased and you've kept it going TT, wisely this week with the heat. Reading some Canova he's a big advocate of the easy running instead of complete rest day. I can manage it as long as keeping things super easy when o have to. I think running on a bit of an injury is what has done for me recently. 

    Great to read the swelling has eased Joolska and you can begin strengthening the ankle. 

    Nice work on the mlr and tempo-lite session this week TR. Grim from the heat? 

    I fear I might have missed the opportunity to ease my way out of a spell on the bench. Achilles is really tight now and range of movement as well as strength has diminished considerably. 

    Obviously carrying on and running through isn't smart but tbh I've never had Achilles issues before so I'm pleading ignorance and probably stupidity. I mean, I thought it was just a stiff ankle at first but the symptoms now point towards achilles tendonitis. 

    I will try and get my physio appointment moved forward from a week tomorrow. Advice I have gleaned online recommends stopping running immediately and a program of stretching and strengthening until symptoms reside.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    Wardi/TR - back is manageable, cheers. Upper back had locked up stemming up from where I'd had bulging discs a few years back. Good training both.
    Wardi - yep, cortisone injection ultimately I reckon. She'll have to dance the standard tune first - GP, physio referral, etc. She had high hamstring tendinopathy a few years back and had an injection under x-ray to fix it, but was warned it would reoccur. I think our plan is to do her hundredth parkrun with the pooch this weekend and then no running for her until it's fixed.
    Jools - good news.
    sj - the problem with Canova (speaking from personal experience of having dabbled) is that the big sessions are possibly a bit too much for us (age, lack of recovery time, etc) to absorb. When you're full-time and can spend the rest of the day lounging around then an easy run is valid as recovery. His guys are full-time athletes and his training, unlike the published books we see from other coaches, are written with that in mind, rather than for Joe Bloggs who has to work, shop, have a life, etc.
    This week has been an 8/4 double (mildly progressive for the first 7 of the 8), an 8 single, and an 8/4 very easy double yesterday. Used the 8 yesterday to map out a route for the 'Over Hills' runs in the Wardlaw pdf I posted recently - route will consist of 1m flat at either end of a section I can make up to 10 miles of rolling hills. It's not hilly by, say, Jooligan' crazy adventures standards, but it'll suffice to make it a tough run when done at the requisite effort.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    SJ - Ahh, that's really bad luck as you were training so well and stopping straight away is the way to go until you get it properly diagnosed.  I am hoping this will provide some solace but the only time I suffered with AT was when training for my first marathon in 2003 which I didn't run.  It hasn't bothered me since so hoping for you if its is AT its a one-off.  Drawing A-Z in the air with your toes on the affected leg helped me.   
    Joe - Good to see you running again, I now you were a good while out but stopped when at a high fitness level, so shouldn't take you too long to regain that fitness and level.  Cycling and running is the way to go.
    Jools - Better injury news too.
    TR - With the rest of us recovering from injury or injured, I would take feeling a bit grim.  But love your perserverance and consistency in training.
    Wardi - A good mix of distances this week.
    TT - Some good doubling, dangerous mentioning Jooligans exploits!

    40m last week and aiming for 45-50 this, all generally easy stuff in the 7.20-8.20 mm range and looking to run a few faster 4m sessions and maybe a 13m longer run next week.  Maybe look to also find a test HM in September as keen to give London as best a go as I can. 
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    sj - forgot to mention, but when my achilles played up before I was advised to do 'heel drops' which done the job for me. https://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/sport-injuries/ankle-pain/achilles-pain/achilles-tendonitis-exercises
    OO - nice rebuilding. Jooligan' exploits were the cause of me looking up to see what the SW Coastal Path record is when we were in Cornwall a few weeks ago.
    8m earlier. Supposed to be with 6 x 45s hills but I was getting fed up of dodging a family on bikes who'd decided to stop on a pinch point for a chat, so ended up with 4 x 45s hills + 2 x 45s strides. Ran comfortably hard on all but was more interested in form.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    SJ - see what the fizz says, hopefully some range of motion work will help you. Yep, grim from the heat, some food, fluids, salts and a few frothies sorted me out.

    Good going TT

    OO - getting back there, good man. Agreed grim (from the heat) is defo better than injured. Im not going to moan re the heat anyway, its an uncontrollable and i suck up plenty of cold, wet, dark runs through the winter.

    Quick turnaround for 10m back in this morning.
  • SJ - definitely sounds wise to stop running until you can get a diagnosis. You might find it's a little bit of nothing and then you've just given your legs a nice reset.
    TT - Now that you've put the worst of the house stuff behind you you're certainly getting in the miles. Good looking hills and strides. 
    OO - Sounds like a sensible plan. I'm similar to you in paces at the moment but not the mileage.
    TR - We're British, we're supposed to moan when it's too hot, too cold, too windy etc etc. Nice 10 before the heat of the day.

    5 miles for me today at 4pm so plenty warm. Sat down in the shade afterwards to sweat it out for a good half an hour. But as above, just so happy to be out there. Definitely starting to feel like a runner again. Autumn has always been my favourite running time so hopefully will coincide nicely with a ramp up of training.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Joe.. it is like running around a boiler room ATM but as you say great to be out there.
    TR.. nice 10m commute.
    TT..  decent training so far this week. Re injection I sent my lady neighbor to my physio as she had sciatic nerve problems.  One jab later and she is now pain free!
    SJ.. hope you get a speedy diagnosis.  Sounds like you've stopped just in time.
    OO.. good to see you building the miles again, sounds like a sensible plan.

    Got out for a 5m run early but still came back like melted butter!  25m on the bike this afternoon, properly hot by then.  It is due to cool down over the next 2 days.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    Joe - Its so positive when you get back into the swing of running again. Upwards and onwards. 

    Don't listen to me btw, as my weekly pace plans just went out the window.  Went out intending to do a steady 8m this evening, after 5m this morning and after a 0.5m wu,  felt good so picked up the pace to give a 7m progressive starting @ 6.41 finishing @ 6.11,  average 6.26.    
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    Nicely getting back into the swing of things TT with the doubles making an appearance. Agree with reading things like Canova. Its totally unrelatable to the ameture runner with, as you say, everything else going on in life. I do find it interesting though and some of the qualities have trickled down to the likes of us. The long slow distance run being phased out for more specificity with fast finish or even mini sessions within the long run. Thanks for the achilles video link. 

    Building back nicely too OO and glad to hear London is in your plans. You won't be the last runner who gets carried away slightly when enjoying him/herself, great to see. The 'drawing the alphabet with toes' was something I was doing whilst sat at my work desk in recent weeks trying to free things up. 

    My mantra too TR during this recent hot spell has been to not moan too much. Being up here it can get a bit grim over winter with what seems like endless rainy days. 

    Great to have that buzz returning Joe. Your long lay-off hasn't filled me with confidence though. I've been told AT related stuff can linger around a bit.

    Is it much cooler on the bike Wardi? In my mind it is due to more wind resistance but when its as hot as it has been I wonder if it's actually not much in it when comparing it to running.

    Thanks all for comments and advice. Much appreciated. First real niggle I can remember for sometime so I have been more than fortunate. Funny really as I reflected recently on how controlled my build-back had been. After taking most of the beginning of the year as downtime I built slowly and steadily through March-June increasing modestly as I went. I don't think I have overtrained but perhaps the streak from Mid May until Tues this week was the catalyst for this setback.

    Anyway, the physio last night was ok. He wasn't overly concerned and said the achilles was in ok shape. Not too much inflammation but range of movement significantly less than right. The knee-to-the-wall test whilst moving the foot back and keeping the heel grounded showed a 4cm difference between both sides. After some manipulation that reduced to 2cm. 

    Moving into the gym he got me doing some drills and stretching which I have to do 3 times a day to get into the achilles and activate it. Whilst doing the drills it became apparent I have some plantar on the left and generally poor stability too elsewhere. I don't know if others struggle so much when it comes to these kind of drills where stability is important, it really accentuates how poor my form is. I could probably make significant improvements just by eradicating this instability and running less not more miles. 

    I did mention running but obviously anything remotely significant is not recommended. However, he did say if I felt it easing at all I could jog but only if no pain is felt. Slow and not for long being the key. We all know our own bodies and I know when it's time to take a break - just about :) The only way I can describe it is it just doesn't feel good to run on. Its not painful but I'm not covering the ground well (to coin a phrase from that Aussie podcast :) ). So a (hopefully) short break, work on these drills 3x a day and see where we are next week. I have another appointment next Thurs. 

    Enjoy the cooler temps folks and hopefully the stormy weather isn't as bad as forcast for those down south. 
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    SJ.. good to get a proper diagnosis, at least it doesn't sound too serious.  I reckon a few days off may sort you out with those exercises.  Maybe a bit of cycling if you feel frustrated.  Re. the bike, the backdraft at higher speed does keep you a bit cooler than running.  However if you stop for any reason you do get warm very quickly!  

    Trying to find a local Park Run on it's return tomorrow has proved amusingly tricky.  My 'local' at York is off due to horse racing, punters in fine attire and McFly in the evening.  Wetherby (7m away) is now off due to gypsies on the riverbank course - more horses!  Goole Park Run is now off due to the discovery of an unexploded bomb discovered on a nearby building site.  I am praying that my final choice of Selby Park Run will be equine and incendiary free. :#
    Saving my legs for a blast tomorrow then so an easy 5.4m in cooler conditions this morning.
  • Sounds like a standard trip to the physio SJ. You find out that actually everything is weak/unstable/tight and its a miracle you've been injury free for so long. I don't know if there's anything to be learned from my recovery to date but I felt it wasn't getting any better for 3/4 weeks but perseverance was the key. Good to have that diagnosis in the bag though. Now just keep up with the stretches!

    Cycling much cooler than running when you're moving I think but agreed, can be very sweaty when you stop for a breather. would say you're generally not working as hard per minute cycling as running as well so that keeps temps down perhaps?

    Good luck Wardi. Parkrun return caught me by surprise a bit but I'm really keen to get it in my schedule as a regular marker for fitness. I just hope it stays drama free and is well run.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Selby is a very flat but rough potholed cart track on an out and back course. It was however free of any perils.  A slightly rusty 22.32 for me which is about 45-60 seconds slower than pre-covid, a work in progress methinks.  I always reckon as an oldie that after a break, injury or whatever, it takes me 4-5 parkruns to get back up to 5k speed.
    Blimey it was great to be back though, quite a few emotional runners today.
    8m done with the warm up & extra miles afterwards.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    Decent rustbuster there Wardi. I didn't realise physios could do jabs; I thought it had to be a doctor? 
    OO - nice progressive. 
    joe - good to see you enjoying it. Snap on autumn running. 
    sj - I'm glad to hear you've got a way forward. Fingers crossed you can clear it up quickly. 

    I swapped my rest day from today to yesterday, so today was 8m including 6 x 1' fast/1' jog. Very humid out there which didn't help my breathing (high humidity always triggers my asthma), but strangely felt better on the reps than at an easy effort. Mix of road and slippery grass for the reps, but the average for 3km effort was still 5:22 which is about right I reckon. 62m for the week. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    Good to see you getting back to it joe, you were in good shape, so it should come back soon enough. 

    Hope the break does you good SJ, and all the rehab works. Listened to a lot of moose achilles tales recently, he is going again now.

    Wardi - good for you on the parkrun, its not my thing, but its a good thing for getting folks off the couch and involved. I object slightly at the folks using it to run really fast in club kit and super shoes though.

    Keep at it TT

    12m home friday, 10m yday before spo neices wedding, which as of mondays easing was now an all restrictions off indoor social, i did the ceremony only and scarpered by 3pm and was the only person there in a mask. Spo and my youngest came back at midnight, im now keeping a distance in my own home, could be a big weeks mileage.

    21m this morning. 12m easy, 7m av 7.15 so nicely +10%, 6.52, 6.36. Finished strong, 87m in last 7 days too.. Absolute drenching early doors but it eased.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Thats a very decent weekend of exercise TR, even more impressive with a wedding to squeeze in too!  Monstrous run today, nicely done - the South does seem to have copped the wet stuff this weekend.  Good luck with the covid avoidance.
    TT.. tasty session today and you've logged a good week of miles there.
    Re. Cortisone jabs.  Yes physios can administer these but only if they have the 'Injection Therapy' qualification - not all physios have this.  It's about £90-100 to have it done privately.

    I wasn't sure how my legs would be today but I uprated  the planned 12-14m to just over 17m when I realised I was ticking over quite comfortably.  Temps were around 20-22 degrees which was much more manageable than last Sunday's 27-29!  Curry and a cold beer or two later.

  • Wardi - nicely done. I wouldn't fancy a racey 5km even with reasonable fitness if I hadn't done any for a while. I noticed times were down yday. like you said, just good to have it back.
    TT - Agree on the humidity today. Getting a sweat on just laying patio slabs. Fast work there in a big week. Nice one.
    TR - lots of miles there last 7 days. you did well to manage your weekend to get that 21 miler in.

    6 miles running yesterday. achilles felt a little tight so swapped today's run for bike. 17 miles in a shade over an hour. 
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Swim on Saturday and 90 minutes on the bike on Sunday. A cyclist helpfully mansplained gears to me. I woman-splained I was deliberately pushing a bigger gear to try and get my heart rate up to something approaching a running heart rate.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    joe - sounds sensible with switching to the bike. Nice one on the patio. As we get towards the end of the snag lists on the bulk of work we'd started we're now eyeing up our patio too.
    Wardi - nice one on the 17m!
    TR - excellent long run (and week). I'm approaching the reduction in restrictions similarly. I can't afford to be contact traced as I'm off to the homeland soon to see an ailing parent.

    Started as planned this week (loosely based on week 14 of the 5km/10km advanced schedule). 9m as 8m 'acceleration', 1 jog. The first 8 were 2 @ ez/brisk/steady/fast (7:34, 7:03, 6:33, 6:08).
    Eventually there'll also be 2 @ around MP/LT on the end of that before the 1m jog. Solid run though.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Wardi - hope the refreshments were good. Me and the doggy copped a serious storm yday afternoon!

    Joe - good idea, ease it back up.

    Good for you jools, defo a trade off to be had with gearing to get HR up but not blowing your legs for running on.

    TT - good going

    8m easy commute in this morning, legs felt ok.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    Joolska - that made me laugh re the helpful gears advice! Hope the ankle is continuing to improve. Sounds like you're keeping nice and active. 

    Nice week last week TR and those long runs must be starting to feel comfy once again. You're certainly maximising periodisation this year. 

    Hope the cooler temps have eased your asthma TT. Nice progression run. I liked those mixed pace runs when I did some of that a few years ago. 

    Sounds sensible decision Joe to switch to the bike if things were sore. 

    Nice long run, cold ones and curry combo at the weekend Wardi. Long run, drinks and curry could almost be referred to as 'doing a Wardi' by now I reckon :smile:

    No running to report here since last Tues. I've been diligently doing my activation drills, stretches and calf raises 3x per day. Discomfort has subsided but strength is still poor on left side. I have another physio appointment on Thursday evening so an opportunity to reassess the situation. Keep reminding myself to keep the faith.

    Going to dust off the mtb bike and go for a ride along the tow path if the torrential rain we've been forecast doesn't arrive. I have purposely stopped all activity bar walking the dog to see if complete rest would help but I'm starting to lose the plot. 
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    sj - I'm awful with complete rest so I can empathise. Nice one with the drills. I'm usually good for a day and then throw my toys out of the pram! The weather definitely makes a difference, thanks for asking. Yeah, the mix of paces is fun and stops you from just plodding.
    14 today. First 9 very easy to easy, last 5 steady (MP+30-40). Got nicely soaked which was novel.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Nice MLR TT, makes a difference when we can actually enjoy the rain.🙂

    SJ.. chicken balti this time which was very tasty.  A couple of Kingfishers helped wash it down.  
    I do think a bit of cycling helps ease frustration during a niggle, hope your patience pays off.

    Jools.. a chum of mine goes riding with the fast boys in the local chain gang, most of them are about half his age.  Av speed is 22-23 mph so that gets his HR up!  No quarter given so he admits to being dropped occasionally.

    After a sluggish leg heavy 5m run yesterday I decided on the bike myself today.  40.5m around the quieter country roads, a.dry ride too though we are expecting a bit of showery rain in the next 24 hours. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    SJ - hopefully the fizz will clear you to get moving again.

    TT - ive been rained on quite a lot recently, which seems bizarre !

    Wardi - chain gang sounds good

    15m run home tonight.
  • Wardi - Decent ride that. All this London rain had passed us by today and then it got savage. You'll get it soon no doubt. Chicken balti pies have been my latest downfall.
    SJ - keeping it up is tough but cycling can hopefully keep some interest. Don't go becoming a cyclist though. we need to keep you in that running community.
    Jools - sounds like a good idea with the high gear cycling. wasn't good for my muscles this week though.

    Working hard on that cycle was good for my lungs but between that and the patio laying I had tight hamstrings yday so had a rest day. 5 miles easy today taking a bit of a soaking. easy pace is getting quicker though.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    A bit of fortunate rain dodging today.  Showers forecast all day, too hot for a jacket/gilet so donned a t-shirt and took my chances.  Back to the running and as it was I had pleasantly dry run, a bit cooler & breezier than of late so less of a sweatfest - 10.3m done.  Within an hour thunder could be heard and it got very dark so the afternoon has been intermittently wet.   
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Good that you're seeing some progress joe

    Wardi - defo too warm for a jacket.

    Quick turnaround for 9m back in this morning, bit creaky but i think thats as much from mondays s and c as ydays 15m. Still isolating from my own household !
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    Cornwall staycationing, and a happy running pattern of running 10-12 miles on the coastal path to meet family on a beach, swim, BBQ and beer. Repeat. Also had chance to do a 6m progressive, uncomfortably comfortable av 6.33 mm. Lots of chat amongst my running club on logistics of getting to London for the marathon, getting pretty close now. 
  • OO - you'll make yourself an enemy with those updates. sounds lovely! London is indeed creeping up. 
    TR - short turnarounds will always be a challenge. you seem to manage better than most.
    Wardi - agreed felt much fresher yesterday. albeit with the need to dodge some pretty serious showers. some good distance from you there.

    An uncharacteristically late run yday at nearly 9pm. any earlier was risking thunderstorms. one clap of thunder set some car alarms off. only 3.6 miles. feels as long as 6/7 miles used to. Still a mental block for me in running further / more regularly. but that's probably a good thing for my injury recovery.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    TR - it must be hard having to isolate from your own household. Good luck. I enjoyed the rain but I suspect that will only last as long as the temps stay a bit warmer (though to be fair I'm generally more appreciative of being able to run a bit again so I'll try to remember that when it's cold and dark).
    Nice weather dodging Wardi.
    OO - sounds perfect to me. Cornwall is on our agenda and we were talking about it last night actually. Possibly a 'when the last of the kids has moved out' rather than wait until retirement (though with 2 teenage boys here retirement might come first; lol).

    Had a bit of a fibro flare yesterday and into today. The meds I'm on react badly to certain (most) alcohol, so a few vodka and cokes Tuesday night wiped me out. Even one good glass of wine is enough to make me feel crap the next day so I'm at the cusp of it not being worth it. Took yesterday off and chilled - had a nice meal out for our 2nd anniversary - and then forced myself out the door today. Realistically I should've forced myself out yesterday but when you're that tired it's hard to accept that exercise is good for staving off fibro - I feel a million times better after this morning's run than before.
    4 x 1/2m cut-downs on road/grass - so 1/4m fast, 1/4m faster, then a 1/4m rec. Plan was around HM effort for the first quarter, 5m-10k for the 2nd quarter. Pretty much on the nose as I averaged 88s for the first quarters (5:52 pace), and 84.1s for the first 3 of the second quarters (5:36.7 pace - about right for 5m pace). Finished with a 74.5 as I wanted to stretch out my legs and have a bit of fun.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    Happy anniversary TT.  Good mix of paces in that session, glad it made you feel better too.  Shame about the meds making you nervous about a tipple.  When I was on tramadol the advice was to avoid a night on the booze as it could send you loopy. :|
    OO.. sounds like a good way to end a run.  We've been invited to a BBQ this Sunday by a club mate, sods law it looks like the chilliest day for months (15 degrees!).  It does look reasonably dry ATM though so mustn't moan.
    Joe.. good to see you easing back to it, don't worry too much about the distance for now - the main thing is that the runs are pain free.
    TR.. nice turnaround, how long have you got to isolate for?
    2 x 4m for me today.  First windy day for ages but temps were ok.
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