Sub 3

Toro

Easy hour on the bike for me with 90 minutes (inc 20 at M pace) on Saturday AM after work (6hrs away).  

Wardi

You almost sound as if you're looking forward to it Toro.
TT.. sorry to hear about your family grief but when I had similar I found the runs were a great stress & worry reliever.  Good miles again.
Jools.. given the bad luck you've had re. ankle I guess that is something of a relief now you've made a decision.

Joe.. from what I've been told the worst aspect of the GNR was getting out of South Shields at the finish.  I guess the revised route with the finish back in Newcastle could improve this somewhat.

2 x 4m today, quite warm again.  My usual Parkrun is off tomorrow due to York races so I might pick one of the Leeds options if I'm up early enough.

TR

Joe  - the 2nd jab can defo rough some folks up a bit. The jab can give CV symptoms although lots of folks have different actual symptoms.

Wardi - i noted the races were on at yr place at the mo.

TT - sorry  to hear about the family woes. Good on you that the running helped  you.

Jools - OO mentioned he had entered Newport too, looks a good race, and ideal from where you live. Hope it goes well.

8m back in this morning. Few frothies then a long run in the morning.

Toro

90min with 20 at a possible M pace (4:30 min/km). 

TR

Good one Toro, was that outside or on the treadie?

Wet and humid 6m, 10m ~mp, 5m crawl home on trashed legs. Quads didnt want to know in the mp section and were pretty hurty from the off, went with a "one more mile approach" and got the 10 done, only 6.43 av but HR was lower than normal. Running on dead legs is good practice i suppose, ive given my legs some stick in the last few weeks so no surprise. 84m for the week.

runjoerun91

Wardi - yeah I think the city centre start and finish should help. I've booked my parking already and I'm staying with family in the North East so hoping for an easy time. Hope you made parkrun.
TR - benefit of dead legs is that you can generally keep the HR down. That's a big run. well done for making it through. Big week as well. Big as it gets for you?

Parkrun over near Derby this morning. Low expectations after Thursday but I wanted to improve on 18:29 from 2 weeks ago so I put on the 4%s. Managed 18:03 which is further progress for sure. Incidentally most of the front runners were in magic shoes. In the time since I last raced the prevalence of the shoes has really gone up. Makes it quite hard to evaluate times that you are seeing

Wardi

That's a decent improvement Joe, I always think it takes a few 5k's to get the legs used to the required pace.  Two of my clubmates finished 2nd & 3rd at a local Parkrun today - 17.34/17.37.  One of them joined the club a year ago mainly for stress relief (his brother sadly took his own life).  He is both surprised and very chuffed to find himself one of the club's fastest runners!

TR.. bravo, a fine big run and a solid MP section.  Big mileage week for you too.

Toro.. good effort there, hope you managed to avoid heat & humidity.

Decided against Parkrun today, I was 50-50 last night and heavy rain first thing put me off completely!  Managed to find a relatively dry interlude around 10am to get out for 6m.  It's been chucking it down here this afternoon, thankfully tomorrow looks a bit drier for my long run.

Toro

Thanks Wardi. Tired today though, ran 25 min really easy and went to bed. 57km week (plus 90km bike). 

TR

Joe - well done, getting back to it nicely. Super shoes at parkrun is a bit unnecessary, the newbies and much more part time runners, dont need to see fast runners in £200 shoes. I disagree a bit with fast folks using parkrun as free racing.......80ish can be typical for me if o get a couple of mlr done, which i hzvnt managed in recent weeks due to life taking over, same might happen this week. With 4 weeks of training left id like to get a long session (which would count as an mlr) and a long run in as the two key runs.

Toro - good idea

My legs were pretty trashed yday so i took a rare rest day today apart from some s and c and some doggy walkies.

Wardi

A well deserved rest day TR, that was a pretty hefty week for you all told.

Good stuff Toro, that's a good week with the bike work added in.

Just over 19m this morning, remarkably managed to avoid all the the forecast showers.  However with the temps & humidity rising in the last few miles my t-shirt ended up like a wet rag anyway despite it's wicking properties! 
65m for the week, Madras/Kingfisher refueling on the cards.

TR

Top bombing wardi, defo agree need a decent t shirt on the humid days, not just a race day freebie........i had madras last night, yum. No kingfisher, had san miguel. Didnt touch the sides.

TippTop

Cheers joe/TR/Wardi.

joe - I often find I do better sessions when I'm running regularly rather than coming at it off minimal training. Good parkrun.

Toro - nice.

TR - great week and long run. Some days it is about just digging in and getting through it. A dead legged Mara effort in a long run will stand to you.

Wardi - nice with the 19m, and snap on the weekly volume.

Went for a ramble with the wife and dog on Saturday which saw a visit to work to check out where she (dog) managed to cut her eyelids in the brambles, and saw me move my Saturday 10 to Sunday instead. Done without drama and 65 for the week.
Started this week with my long run. Sticking to between 2hrs-2:10hrs for long runs (when fit and in mara training that will give me 20 so it's plenty). Today was 17.3 as 6.5m very easy, 4 sets of surges of {1,1,2 mins} starting every 5mins (i.e. 4mins after a 1min, 3mins after a 2min - run easy, not jogging), and 2m+ easy to finish. Bit of a sh!t run truth be told. Body and mind weren't fully in the mood so I just got it done. Averaged around current HMP for the 16mins of fast (5:50) with the 44mins of easy running averaging 7:33. The pluses were that I got it done, and that the surges made it less of a mental drag, so focusing on that. Onwards.

TR

Good life juggling there TT,  good effort there on the long run too. Agreed on making it less tedious too, i find the easy long runs a chore nowadays, but i need to some in there to save a few matches, much prefer the +10% or mp long runs.

10m easy this morning

Toro

TT - ouch sounds painful. Hope dog is okay. Definitely good to get it done.
TR - Just the one curry? https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/aug/23/mission-masala-tom-two-curries-cruise-ashas-birmingham

I did the minimum 40 min on my plan. Running straight after the morning meal as I'm on nights is starting to get on top of me. Day 10 I think and another 20+ to go until next port visit and some down time. I'm going to skip breakfast and see if that helps. 

OuchOuch

TR - Another good long run banked and 10m @ 6.43 in the midst of this is good going. 84m is super stuff. 
Joe - Congratulations, a really good PR.  Great confidence booster.
Wardi - A good looking 19m banked and great weekly mileage.
TT - Ouch for your dog and you did well getting the long run done, when not feeling it.
Toro - Hope no breakfast helps the running, it should.
Jools - Yes, I am down for Newport and as it happens now doing London again as family plans are changing, which is good news.

A travel disrupted week of only 46m so did my LR yesterday. Wore my Nike Flyknits for the first time and ran my best LR for ages, 21m @ 7.20, with the second half 20 secs per miles quicker than the first 10m.   Probably ran it a bit too quick really so 3 long runs banked, 3 to go for London.

CC2 - Speedy Goth

WFH today so I can catch up with the thread again.

Everything went a bit wrong here. Too much intensity, too many failed attempts at massive sessions in rubbish weather with other big sessions in the legs. I hit a wall. Partly my coach's fault for setting a bonkers schedule, partly mine for just following it blindly. His other half just had a baby, so I suspect his mind was elsewhere. She was about to drop when he was writing it. I had to drop all intensity and just run easy for a week, then I asked him for advice on what to do next and got told to leave him alone because he's on paternity. I'm not sure what will happen now. It was going so well working with him, but now I'm a bit in limbo. Maybe it will sort itself out when he's back, or maybe his priorities have just shifted and I should just take what I've learned and move on....

That last schedule was stupid. But I have to take some ownership too. I should have looked at it and thought, er, no, don't be daft. But I didn't, I just followed it. This is what broke me:
Saturday - 3 miles tempo plus hill reps (it was meant to be 10k pace tempo but I only managed HMP on a hilly course, which was frankly all out effort for the 5k). Strength training.
Sunday - meant to be 10@ 7.29s then 10@ 6.40-6.45s (it was initially faster on the schedule but I queried that). I failed to hit MP in the second 10 other than 1 mile with a tailwind. It still averaged 7.12s for 20 miles.
Monday - easy 8 mile run. Strength training.
Tuesday - easy 5 am, monster track session pm  of 6 x 2000m off 400m at 90 second laps.
Wednesday - hilly 12 @ sub 8 min miling (over 1000ft ascent). Core training.
Thursday -  easy 5am, evening session WU, 3 @ 7.30s, 3 @ 7.15s, 3 @ sub 7s, CD.
Friday - rest
Saturday -  an hour offroad around 7.45s. Strength training.
Sunday - supposed to be 4 x 30mins progression 7.15s/7s/6.50s/sub 6.40s but I was broken and simply couldn't attempt it. I did an easy pace 22 instead.

In hindsight it's ridiculous. No wonder I was dead. 

So, left to my own devices I ran easy all week, then got a last min entry to a 20 mile road race and did 10 at MP + 60 then 10 @ MP. It went well. Thank goodness. My confidence had gone through the floor as I'd 'failed' to hit the paces for 3 Sunday runs in a row.

Apologies for the massive ME post. I shall read back over the course of the day. 

Toro

CC2 - That does look extreme - looks like the Frank Horwill 5 pace plan I got injured on in 2014.
OO - nice run and pace. 

I had breakfast and went straight to bed for 8 hours. I then felt so much better and ran 5x 1 min @ 5% incline 5-10km pace off 3 min - 1 hour total and felt better.

saintjason

OO - Sorry to hear about your vlm deferral but family trumps everything. Or maybe not deferred now I read on? Newport looks a good option. Festival on your doorstep sounds awesome too. 

Joe - hope the achilles has behaved itself. Second jab can take a day or two to overcome as noted by others. I felt sluggish after both of mine for a couple of days afterwards. I ran the GNR every year from 2000-2008 and loved it. Have you run it before? Speedy parkrun too in the 'shoes' I'd say impossible to evaluate times. My club mates are running sub 75 min half marathons where as before they were around 80mins. 

TR - Good choice filling that spring marathon hole with a deferred Brighton place. Noted the continued excellent training and on tired legs too. That long run at the weekend sounded tough but you got it done and glad top hear you had a well deserved rest day.  

TT - Sorry to read about some non-running stresses going on. Hopefully those settle down for you. As you say to knock off a decent volume week but consider it a below par week shows good recent progress. Big pat on the back for getting out there and getting something done. That's half the battle right?

Toro - had a look at your blog - exciting adventures and having done a fair amount of treadmill running last year myself I can relate to the boredom but it does add a certain mental fortitude. I even ran one of my 20 mile runs on mine watching the elite London marathon last year. I assume its relatively calm on ship so you don't get thrown around on the treadmill? I find after a while I can lose balance and focus, probably from the monotony. 

Wardi - Nice ~MP miles test run during the club race and long run. Well deserved refueling after a big week. 

Joolska - Sensible decision given the offer of the Newport transfer. Sucks but its a wise decision that as you say gives you a fighting chance and less pressure to build back up too quickly. Agreed on not noticing the surroundings. I generally focus on the ground a few metres ahead of me anyway. 

CC2 - Good confidence return just in time by sounds of it. 

Not great news from the consultation I had yesterday. No real answers which was frustrating. Just lots of what it could be. If he was to hazard a guess he said ATFL or CFL issue. I would need a scan to be sure. Unfortunately the costs involved in getting that done quickly are unjustifiable for me.

I will keep up the non-loading s&c as that should be ok according to the consultant. I'll then wait for a scan once my GP has got the letter from the consultant. Things might have healed by then anyway. 

TR

OO - pacey long run that. 720s is my approx 10% pace, so impressive if you did 21 av that pace.......i rarely used my flynits for a year or so, then used them for a few sessions, and then more often again getting ready for the next %, they have over 700m on them now,  have no pop left so are just a light cushioned shoe, but still going strong and i have another unused pair to go yet.

CC - stop paying and using that coach for starters. Thats way too much hard stuff, a session, an mlr and a long run at max is the target imo,,sometimes some of the longer runs are sessions but not always and not all 3 in a week. Sounds like youve salvaged vlm, after vlm either coach yourself or use DT19s coach is my advice. Depends how much hard running you want in there,,his coach does well with him and did well with stevie. 

Toro- running straight after food is ok for me, but id rather run on empty, esp in the mornings.

SJ - mmmm, thats not ideal. Id be tempted to leave it alone fully for a week s and c wise, and see how walking etc goes

Brighton say i can defer my place inc my park and ride place for £20, which i will do. Puts all my eggs in the vlm basket in 5 wks but also gives me a spring mara without another entry fee. I also have a rolled over North Dorset mara entry for 3 weeks after Brighton.

10m easy this morning.

TippTop

TR - saving matches is one of the reasons I've put a 2-2:10 limit on mine. Doing just 1 x 20m and 1 x 18m in the 7.5 months pre-Valencia reassured me that general endurance isn't a concern (when I'm training properly, lol). I find thinking in time terms helps with getting it done too.

Toro - nice run! Sounds like you've got your answer on breakfast. FWIW I need a good 3 hours between eating and running.

OO - nice long run. Which ones are the Flyknits; the new carbon ones?

CC2 - The first Sat/Sun together are too tough given the week that follows, but imho the Mon-Sun is ok for a marathon focused approach. Sounds like you need a new coach though if you've not got the confidence in him or that you'll get what you need from him. Glad you got a confidence booster in the 20m.

sj - cheers. Definitely half of the battle. Unfortunately the stresses won't settle down (until they stop) but hopefully I'll start to manage them better. Sorry to hear you're no closer to a resolution or diagnosis. I've been there and it sucks, but bear with it.

Light gym session this morning. 11m easy (pace still rubbish but I run to feel so it doesn't matter) at lunchtime, and off out for 5m very shortly.

OuchOuch

SJ - Frustrating on the lack of a clear diagnosis.  Fingers crossed mother nature does her magic. Yes,  London and Newport for me.
CC - That schedule is far too savage.  Lucky you didn't get an injury and good one getting a good 20m in.   
TR - VMLM it is then.  Bit cheeky charging you £20 to defer but understand the Brighton organisers like the folding stuff but good to have a clear schedule of races.   
TT - 16m in a day is good going.  My Zoom Flyknits are 2018 ones - the mark ones.   About 300m in them, and another new pair.
Rest day today, just a bit of sea swimming. Glorious. 

OuchOuch

Race List

Sep 12 - Joe, CC2 - Great North Run
Oct 3 - OO, Wardi, CC2, TR - London Marathon   Toro - Virtual LM
Oct 24 - Joolska, OO - Newport Marathon
Nov 7 - TT - Reading HM

Nov 7 - Wardi - Barca Marathon (TBC)

TR

TT - agreed, overall volune and some long runs with long quicker blocks in them takes away the need for 24milers. I do like the odd run approaching expected time on feet though, but i have a lot of slow miles in there, so its still only 21 or 22m.

OO - those shoes have plenty of life in them yet. Agreed £20 is a bit cheeky, but the free defer has been and gone, and they're letting me defer the park and ride too. I also remember deferring vlm and having to pay full whack again, although that wasnt changed like Brighton has been with no bag drop and the fast start moved. We'll see if vlm have a bag drop, although its not lost on me that there was 75,000 at old trafford the other day. All shouting, spitting and singing.

Wardi

CC2.. that does look a bit full on with not enough recovery.  If you were feeling washed out then that's the reason.  Judging by the 20m race the rest has not only given you a confidence boost but saved you from a full burn out.  Best of luck from here.

Toro.. nice session done!

SJ.. frustrating but all I can say is hope you start to recover soonest.

OO.. cracking long run there, bodes well for the forthcoming marathon season.

TT.. Nice double today.  FWIW before a long run I tend to have maybe a yogurt & banana or a small bowl of cereal.  

TR.. don't blame you for the Brighton deferral if you're not happy with the arrangements.  Roll on London!

4.5m + 7.5m double today, brisk sunny run with the club tonight.

Toro

TT - Yes nice to see it work - the main issue is although it's breakfast it's actually dinner because I'm on nights. So it's tough to manage energy levels through the night (there is a midnight meal) as circadian rhythm wanes.

StJ - I have in the past been thrown around. Onboard the carrier we don't move much at all. 

"I guess most people don't know what it's like to live and train in a steel can day after day. When the weather comes the sea moves. When the sea moves the ships move. And so do the people inside! Running on a treadmill whilst countering the continually moving ship's motion is a special skill which isn't normally a factor. I know people spend money on rocker plates for bikes - come to sea, no need!"

https://www.fetcheveryone.com/blog/55962/2021/6#blog428737 Some more bloggage of the 'cruise' on fetch.

I cycled 75 min easy and got a 45 min walk around the deck in this afternoon. There's a movie night for those not on watch.

TippTop

Toro - fair play. Managing training around sea motion and shift patterns is an impressive skill to have!

TR - I missed Brighton charging you £20 to defer. It doesn't surprise me; they have strange ideas. A few years ago they offered me a free place, hotel for a night, etc (off the back of Valencia '17), but then told me I wasn't eligible for prize money as it was British only. I think they were genuinely surprised when I turned them down....

Wardi - I tend to have breakfast and then just wait 3 hours+. I wouldn't be able to have even a yoghurt and small banana. Nice double.

OO - I reckon I'm getting at least 800 miles per pair of trainers, but the newer ones with the plate seem to become less comfortable sooner.

10m earlier (6 easy, 4 brisk - 7:49/6:57). 5m easy soon. Things are beginning to feel marginally less forced.

TR

Wardi - vlm have similar restrictions to Brighton, so its not ideal.

Toro - fair play to you for keeping the training going, but i guess it helps pass the time.

TT - i dont think that £20 is unreasonable, ive deferred vlm before and had to pay full whack.

After 12x3min and 14x3min in recent weeks i was going to add a few more reps this morning getting me up towards the 20 rep max, but decided to switch it up and do the BAC 10x5min/60 sec jog. The aim is a bit quicker than mp (mp is approx 6.40ish for me atm). Av pace for the 10 reps came in at 6.27, so 50mins better than mp achieved, 12m in total.

TippTop

TR - fair point; I was comparing it to local races where I've deferred for no cost before, but yeah compared to VLM then it's decent. Cracking session there!
Bit of indigestion so cut the 5 to a 3. Beautiful evening.

Wardi

Exercising on board ship is a useful skill Toro!  Good cycling effort and hope you enjoy the movie.

TT.. nice 10m there, sounds like you're getting some training adoptions at last.

TR..yes I saw the LM news, I reckon I can organize myself without a kit bag at the start but I guess we will have to pray for a good weather day.  About 3yrs ago at the York marathon it pithed it down from 07.30am to 4pm.  Trying to keep warm & dry before & after was a nightmare.
Good 12m done and congrats on toughing out that BAC session!

Just over 10m this morning, a bit cloudy so cooler than previous days.

runjoerun91

TT - I had to track down your Valencia marathon report from 2017. Very impressive stuff. I saw that OO had a great run there as well. You seem to be ticking over nicely.

TR - 20 reps of anything would be a big session. Not sure I could face 20 strides let alone 20x3 mins. Like the look of a something x 3 mins session though. Sounds sensible on the Brighton deferral. I'd like to come out to London to watch as I'm down that way the day before but looks like spectators are discouraged.

Toro - Nice quote there. Always admire those who can get their training in around shift work, especially nights. Just sounds tiring.

Wardi - nice running and good to see you are catching sun once more.

OO - Martin off marathon talk would be very proud of your sea swimming. Nice one.

CC2 - As others have said that doesn't sound ideal. Looks more like a pro athletes regime. Bank the inevitable fitness you gained working with him and move on to pastures new. Glad the confidence is back.

SJ - Really sorry to hear that. Just keep on trucking. Hopefully even if progress is slow it is progress. Have heard similar stories on the shoes 80 mins -> 75 half marathon. Which is great because I feel with fitness i'm around that 80 min mark in "regular" shoes.

Busy week this week, in between back to back hosting weekends at the house so plenty to do. Have resorted to morning runs before work which have been surprisingly pleasant. Feeling like i'm getting back to some form but made the mistake of looking at paces and heart rates from the spring. Still some way behind that. But that just shows how fit the training schedule got me so that's where I must return when ready.