Sub 3

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  • Not posted on here before but stolen some great advice. Did Edinburgh in 3.07.47.First marathon. Now trying to decide what to do next. Am 41 so got good for age for London but wondered if I should try another in sept or oct. Any advice ? PB's are 10k 37.29,half 82.40
  • Hi goals, I managed a fairly comfy 2:58 in Berlin off a 10km time 3 seconds slower than you, so you're probably already in shape for a sub 3 effort.

    I guess it depends how patient you are - I'd be torn between keeping marathon training up & breaking 3 hours in autumn, or maybe working on 5 / 10km for the summer - perhaps aim for 36:30, then target something a little quicker in FLM 07 - perhaps a 2:50 - 2:55?

    What's your running history & current training like?
  • Hail Hail

    Goals - aha! Now I know who you are, and you know who I am, but should we keep the rest of them in the dark?

    I confess that I know goals relatively well, and JEJ is exactly right. He is in easily sub3 shape. If conditions had been good, and he hadnt stopped to help a collapsee then a 2.55 would have been on the cards.

    Official time from Sun was 2.47.21 position 18.
  • JEJ - no, I live south of the river, therefore Dulwich being convenient for me (although my work hours will mean a quick cycle ride to get there on time). I work near South Quay DLR so most weekdays I'm running somewhere on the island. Sunday I just fancied something a bit different to my usual runs so I ran to Victoria Park, which was about my limit for a 2hr run.

    I quite like the Dulwich 5k route as you run round the park clockwise and anticlockwise. Also it's one of those routes starting and finishing in the same place and yet seems to be more downhill than up! It avoids the uphill section of the South Circular from the 10k otherwise it's much the same. I think it should be fairly quick, and you'll have no problems in out-pacing your stalker! I will at least introduce myself providing I escape work in time.
  • Speaking of 5k speed, but unfortunately not mine, I did the Bushy Park 5k a few weeks back. For those that don't know it's a free event that is run every Saturday on a very flat course of grass and gravel paths, lovely to run on. Anyway it was a very hot day, I hadn't run for a while, got drunk the night before, is that enough excuses?? So aimed to beat 20 minutes and did so with a bit to spare, happy days. To compare this with the top athletes, Craig Mottram ran it last Saturday in 14 minutes flat!! Must have been a gentle jog to him.

    Not turning into the midnight-ish rambler but can't post at work as the email police would be all over that like a cheap suit and block access.

    DN Hope the back gets better soon.
  • morning all,

    sorry for lack of posting - have rather lost the thread a bit of late.... boom boom.

    No, had my final exam for the course I've been slaving away at (now finished - just in time for the World Cup yay! - and serious marafun training of course...) Managed to keep the running going but something had to be sacrificed so the thread-posting had to go. Intending to put in a series of long hard posts interspersed with some quicker, short posting bursts to make up for it.

    Churning out 55-mile weeks at the moment and gradually heading towards 60 which is unknown territory for me. Also started doing one track session per week, which feels weird as haven't been on the track for several years. Kind of confirmed my strengths and weaknesses though - there's a guy who's run a 2.40 marathon who goes down too and who burns me off on all long runs but I can take almost 50m out of him over 200m....

    Up for Yately in August and also gonna do Nottingham half as warm-up for Cardiff.
  • welcome to all the newbies by the way...
  • oh - and I join DN in being amazed by those Edinburgh times. I'm another who totally wilts in the heat, so amazing efforts guys....
  • see - I told you I'd make up for my lack of posting...
  • NM2 Hope the Thread Tourettes clears up soon. Might be forced into entering Yateley August too - blidy Ingerland.

    CM Somewhere between the CNBA and pf preservation monster got me today I'm afraid. No 14.6km/h action to report. Did the warmup and got halfway through the 1st mile and the pf was a little to noticeable that early in the sesh. Stopped, gave myself a serious talking to and managed to refocus and bank an additional hour at 13km/h - not bad under the circumstances. Despite high mileage (42miles on Mon/Tue) the foot had been improving somewhat - would be good to continue that trend and actually move towards running fast sometimes. Nearly all running is currently confined to the mill and it appears that this and RED shoes is improving the situation.
  • Last 12 monthe rankings

    2006 Apr 2:44:20 London JEJ
    2006 Apr 2:44:25 London CY
    2006 Apr 2:46:46 Paris Running Bhoy
    2006 Apr 2:48:43 London B&R
    2006 Apr 2:52:33 London davidt
    2006 Apr 2:52:38 London nigelj
    2006 Apr 2:54:33 London Tmap
    2006 Apr 2:55:23 London OuchOuch
    2005 Oct 2:55:51 Cardiff CRAB
    2006 Apr 2:56:05 London batfink
    2006 Apr 2:56:06 London hilly
    2006 Apr 2:56:24 London Gold Rush
    2006 Apr 2:56:36 London OMFA
    2005 Dec 2:58:18 Luton Cartman
    2006 Apr 2:58:44 London Mrs Tricks
    2006 Apr 2:58:49 London Vassy
    2006 Apr 2:59:10 London ScottyB
    2006 Apr 2:59:36 London Jason Harris 1
    2005 Oct 3:01:54 Cardiff Dull Napoleon
    2006 Jun 3.02.01 Edinburgh Dan A
    2006 Apr 3:03:09 London Bubblecop
    2006 May 3:04:18 Halstead That Boy Sure Is A Running Fool
    2006 Apr 3:06:44 London NL
    2006 Apr 3:06:51 London nichs2
    2005 Oct 3:07:29 Abingdon Gobi
    2006 Jun 3:07:47 Edinburgh goals
    2006 May 3:08:42 Vienna Aitch S
    2006 Apr 3:11:15 London Blisters
    2006 Apr 3:12:47 London NDOW
    2006 Apr 3:15:01 London Impossible is Nothing
    2006 Apr 3:16:31 Rotterdam nrg-b
    2006 Jun 3:19:52 Edinburgh Odeon1085

    Forthcoming Events

    2006 Jun Pennine 100 Dan A
    2006 Jul IMDE Toucan
    2006 Jul 50m Challenge G.R
    2006 Jul IMDE Cartman
    2006 Aug Boddington 50K Gobi
    2006 Oct Cardiff NM2
    2006 Oct Cardiff NDOW
    2006 Oct Cardiff CRAB
    2006 Oct Cardiff OuchOuch
    2006 Oct Cardiff WW
    2006 Oct Cardiff Odeon1085
    2006 Oct Abingdon Dull Napoleon
    2006 Oct Abingdon Blisters
    2006 Oct Abingdon Brucey Bonus
    2006 Oct Dublin Cartman
    2006 Oct Dublin CRAB

    Popped goals onto the rankings and Brucey{/b] onto the Abingdon starters list again.

    Must count my blessings, as my back trouble seems to have disappeared. Suddenly realised that it wasn't there anymore, ran 6 miles after the Brazil game and then slept like a log last night. Still a total mystery why it flared up again after so long.

    Isn't interactive TV wonderful. Saw the football without any John Motson commentary. Bliss.

    Dull

  • DN

    Curiosity has got the better of me.

    What on earth were you doing, several weeks ago, plodding the streets of Nth London at 6.30am?

    I assumed you'd wet the bed or had some other incontinent related accident.
  • AB12

    I don't run lunchtimes in the summer because of the pollution in Central London, so have to maintain the mileage in the evening or mornings. With the recent heatwave, if I did opt for early it tended to be very early, although I have to say you did well to spot me, as for the most part I try to avoid roads and run x/c in Trent Park.



  • Hail Hail

    2006 Apr 2:44:20 London JEJ
    2006 Apr 2:44:25 London CY
    2006 Apr 2:46:46 Paris Running Bhoy
    2006 Apr 2:48:43 London B&R
    2006 Apr 2:52:33 London davidt
    2006 Apr 2:52:38 London nigelj
    2006 Apr 2:54:33 London Tmap
    2006 Apr 2:55:23 London OuchOuch
    2005 Oct 2:55:51 Cardiff CRAB
    2006 Apr 2:56:05 London batfink
    2006 Apr 2:56:06 London hilly
    2006 Apr 2:56:24 London Gold Rush
    2006 Apr 2:56:36 London OMFA
    2005 Dec 2:58:18 Luton Cartman
    2006 Apr 2:58:44 London Mrs Tricks
    2006 Apr 2:58:49 London Vassy
    2006 Apr 2:59:10 London ScottyB
    2006 Apr 2:59:36 London Jason Harris 1
    2005 Oct 3:01:54 Cardiff Dull Napoleon
    2006 Jun 3.02.01 Edinburgh Dan A
    2006 Apr 3:03:09 London Bubblecop
    2006 May 3:04:18 Halstead That Boy Sure Is A Running Fool
    2006 Apr 3:06:44 London NL
    2006 Apr 3:06:51 London nichs2
    2005 Oct 3:07:29 Abingdon Gobi
    2006 Jun 3:07:47 Edinburgh goals
    2006 May 3:08:42 Vienna Aitch S
    2006 Apr 3:11:15 London Blisters
    2006 Apr 3:12:47 London NDOW
    2006 Apr 3:15:01 London Impossible is Nothing
    2006 Apr 3:16:31 Rotterdam nrg-b
    2006 Jun 3:19:52 Edinburgh Odeon1085

    Forthcoming Events

    2006 Jun Pennine 100 Dan A
    2006 Jul IMDE Toucan
    2006 Jul 50m Challenge G.R
    2006 Jul IMDE Cartman
    2006 Aug Boddington 50K Gobi
    2006 Aug Hood To Coast (USA) Running Bhoy
    2006 Oct Cardiff NM2
    2006 Oct Cardiff NDOW
    2006 Oct Cardiff CRAB
    2006 Oct Cardiff OuchOuch
    2006 Oct Cardiff WW
    2006 Oct Cardiff Odeon1085
    2006 Oct Abingdon Dull Napoleon
    2006 Oct Abingdon Blisters
    2006 Oct Abingdon Brucey Bonus
    2006 Oct Dublin Cartman
    2006 Oct Dublin CRAB


    Planning on doing Glasgow Men's 10k on Sun (no jokes about not being allowed to enter since I'm only a Bhoy, please). Relatively flat course around and through Bellahouston Park in Glasgow's leafy southside. Temp predicted at 21C, with light wind. Would like to go sub 35 (who wouldnt), but not sure how much recovery my legs will have had. Any predictions?
  • RB - for anyone else I'd say the week after a marafun - NO CHANCE. But as I've said before, you are a freak of nature so I'm gonna go for 34.58.
  • Hail Hail

    CRAB - as you well know, BLUE shoes run faster than RED ones. Although my nice yellow ones do pretty good too!

    NM2 - ooh you're confident son!
  • RB - 35:14 and not a second quicker. You won't beat my December 10km time. That's an order.

    I do need a new pb over 10km soon though - my best time this year is 36:10, but that did include a nipping into the clubhouse for a cr@p.

    Perahps Yatley in August, then county champs in September before going back to my pb course in December could provide some fruitful improvements.
  • Odeon1085Odeon1085 ✭✭✭
    NM2- 34.58
    DN - 35:10
    JEJ- 35.14
    Ode- 35.26

    Guys, some quick advice required. Just ordered P and D online. Not a single bookshop in Cheltenham had it!

    Gonna train and run using HRM for Cardiff. I have read on previous posts 88% being marathon rate and HM obviously slightly quicker/higher.

    I normally train and run well below these targets. Do I jump straight in at higher rates or build up to it.

    FYI:

    31 yrs
    MHR - 197 (Jan 06-prob higher now as fitter but that's gd enough)
    Rest- 48 (Average over 10 mins 3 different days during taper week).

    What should be my relative rates during training/racing. 5k on 19th July first target?

    P.S. Official time same as my own time.267th
  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭
    odeon,
    fwiw my advice would be; do not run a marathon with a heart monitor. do train with a heart montor. first, to make sure your wombles are wombles and to monitor wombling speeds and progress. Second, to gradually build up to 6 to 10 miles at 85(?)% mhr. I haven't got my calculator on me, but 170bpm looks like a marathon effort training pace for you. Therefore start at 160 and work up to 170 over a 6 to 10 mile course.

    cartman will be along soon (is he around today?). it's probably best for the rest of us if cartman doesn't read your post.......

    ps. I feel like a fraud at the moment cos I'm totally wrapped up with my cycle training, so no running for me.
  • ODE Glad CM's away he'd bamboozle you with Thresholds, lactic juices and aerobicity in a trice! I think the general rule of thumb (like there is one when it comes to optimal Mara training) is :-

    Run lots of miles @ ~75%MHR
    Run ~25% of miles @ ~MaraPace (check HR is <88%)
    Chuck in the odd race, interval session or full on (eye)balls out blast upto 10miles. (P&D do some mile reps, 10mile pace work etc)

    BTW MaxHR is not affected by fitness - it's kind of genetic and 88% is the theoretical optimum for the aerobic monster not likely to be attainable by us halfwits.

    n2TdF starts soon so I'm gonna get my bike out (just after I've put my Wimbledon inspired tennis racket away) me thinks and also sit in the gym on the bike watching the ITV3/4 highlights for an hour a day - still hope to keep up the (running) miles though.
  • Odeon1085Odeon1085 ✭✭✭
    Cheers folks.

    Have read a couple of CM's posts on other forums and know he's da man.

    Thx Crab. Always thought fitness affected MHR ie bigger, stronger heart etc. When 21 got 203 on Run, but biking was never able to go beyond 191. Talking of which I have been caught watching Tdf in full lycra (helmet and shoes included) as highlights started just as leaving for ride (that's my story and I'm sticking to it)
  • RB - yes you know me well but you are a little too generous in your estimate of 2.55. I predict 34.45 for you for Sunday.

    JEJ - Thanks for the advice . I am caught in the same dilemna you suggest. I have run for more than 10 years but used to train 20 -25 miles a week. In the last 18 months I have increased mileage and run Pb's at 10k and half. Last 4 months have seen me loosely follow P&D less than 70 miles but also dip onto Hard training thread as a lurker.
    Edinburgh seemed easy up to 20 miles (2.16)then slowed alittle up to22(2.31) then faded over last 4.Do I need more long runs or to do them a little faster? Did 6 or 7 over 20 miles at roughly 7.40 per mile.
  • goals 7:40 per mile sounds ok to me. I did my long runs at about that pace when I was creeping into sub 3 shape. If you have a HRM this pace should be < 75% of max.

    ODE If anything you'll find max HR goes down a beat or two with increased fitness - simply because it takes a much greater effort to push your CV system to the max than if you're not fit.
  • JEJ !!Pedant alert!! So you're saying it stays the same it's just harder to attain.
  • creeping into sub 3 shape

    JEJ You galloped sub 3 in under 12 months. I'm still creeping after almost 3 years. Not certain that I'm not grovelling now.
  • CRAB Firstly I'm saying nothing; I'm typing. Secondly it may be physiologically impossible to attain the 'untrained' max HR.

    A ~2:30 marathoner from my club has been unable to run or partake in serious exercise for about a year. A couple of weeks ago he excitedly texted a club coach as he'd hit a new HR max (5 beats higher) when out cycling, even though he wasn't pushing that hard. He thought it was a good thing, and it meant that he was underestimating his running potential. Sadly that's unlikely to be the case.
  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭
    No dusty bin for me; I thought I did 03.02.01 in Edinburgh - it seems the heat was affecting my eyesight. It was 03.02.09; can't see a game show coming out of that one.

    Gambling on the WC is just about covering my physio costs at the moment. Not sure if next weekend's 100 miler is going to happen now due to ankle/achilles/tarsal injury, but I'll decide after the weekend.
  • Hail Hail

    Sitting on the lav whilst placing your bets eh Dan? Whatever floats your boat. At least you're winning!
  • I've decided to throw the HR in the bin for the next few weeks cos;

    a) this heat is playing havoc with my paces
    b) my coach told me to :-)

    only 4 weeks training left, and 6 weeks to my time bomb goes off and not a moment too soon wither I can tell you.

    odeon + numbers, sounds like you have had good advice from the Crab already. Oh how times have changed.. I think we should come up with some other form of training so we can get back to the good old days of arguing and insults..

    JEJ, each discipline has its own max HR, i.e. its very unusual for max Bike HR == max Run HR. Thats said though, its even more unusual for max Bike HR > max Run HR.

    Why am I humming Tom Jones songs now ?!?!?

    DanA, do you ever plan to do the GUC ? After reading this years reports (and the fantastic win by MtB) I'm half pencilling it in for a fews year down the line..
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