IM Switzerland 2007



  • Nothing wrong with knitting, there is a very good one a few blocks from my flat!!
  • Club that is..... Full of triathletes from the forums...
  • Knitting is the new Tri
  • knitting and ??????????
  • Hows the training going??? Just back from a swim session, please please tell me it gets easier....... : (
  • I knit, I get respect from my peers for doing so. Swimming does get easier, your shoulders will get used to it. I used to swim competively when I was younger and going back to it now is hard, the fact I was that much faster, fitter and stronger when I was 14 doesn't do wonders for motivation
  • I can relate to that also as I used to swim competively up to the age of 14. Now I seem to get slower the more I train, obviously drag from the beer belly doesn't help :-)
  • I just cant kick, would be great if pool bouys were allowed, would love that.........but this kicking malarky, whats the secret as it must be a simple thing once you get it surely???
  • What do you knit Harry?
  • Fitn40 - you dont need to kick for an ironman swim. Just use your arms and literally crawl over the water. Even if you're pants like me - it'll be over in 90ish mins and then the proper hard stuff begins.
  • F4l - I just stopped kicking and my 400 time came down by 30 seconds! At some point I will be adapted to not kicking wrongly, then I will learn kicking correctly. Watch your back, JAn Sibbersen ;-)

    And the wetsuit is like a pull boye around you.
  • I agree with Cougs, get use to swimming with your arms!!

    As Lars said, the wetsuit is like a pull bouye. Once you swim in one the bouyancy puts your body in the correct position, thus stops the swimming up hill phenomenen?? This is where your body position is wrong and you find yourself kicking too low in the water. Try to maintain the kick just breaking the water, you will use a lot less energy and therefore find the swimming a lot easier.

    But be warned, don't rely on the wetsuit as if the water temp is too warm, they are not aloud.

  • I think for a good kick (not that I have one, I seem to go from the front of my training to the back as soon as kick sets start) you just need to have nice and relaxed ankles. I can't kick to save my life and I've got webbed toes.

    As the guys said I think it's best just to concentrate on arms, the legs will have a lot of work to do later!!!

    I'm knitting a scarf for my girlfriend's Xmas present (what a loser I am)
  • I HATE pullbouys. They make crap swimmers. They're great training aids and can be used with paddles for strength work but don't rely on them to get a decent position.

    PB's don't make you swim like you've got a wetsuit on, swimming with a wetsuit makes you do that. The kick balances the movements made by your arms. Dragging your legs (supported by a PB or wetusit) will just make you "fishtail" down the pool / lake / sea and cause a whole lot of unwanted drag.

    Learn to swim properly and use a PB rarely.

    Why struggle around the swim and waste 10-15 minutes when you'd be gutted spending that time in TX or the bike or the run.

    Granted for IM your kick is minimised in terms of % propulsion gained but it is still important.
  • I disagree that pullbouys make crap swimmers, they are a great training aid that do wonders for the endurance in your shoulders.

    I agree that dragging legs (not using them) is a bad idea as this will cause an ineffiecent stroke. But when using a pullbouy and using a good stroke technique fishtailing shouldn't be a problem.
  • In my pool the people who use the most "aids" tend to have very average technique. I'm not a fan of pull buoy - it encourages people with bad technique to think they are doing something useful.
  • FWIW (I am not a good swimmer) I used to thinking kicking was not important in a IM. But now think it is for the reasons that Lars points out. No matter what you think, you will kick during the IM swim and even if yon don't it is very likely that your kick/feet are causing drag.

    I tend to do at least 2-3x100m with a kick board each session I do now. Was amazed at just how crap I was at it to.
  • aaargh diagonal kick!

    HJ - why do PB's make stronger shoulders?

    If only 11% of propulsion comes from kicking then why suddenly stopping kicking will make you stronger?

    Swimming harder or using paddles will do that. Not artifically raising your legs with a float. I know a reasonably fast swimmer who is 1 second per 25m faster with a PB than without. Not because his shoulders are stronger but because he's so used to using this "aid" that he swims poorly without it.
  • Interesting, the swimming coach in the tri sessions HATES kick boards, but does the odd pool bouy swim to work the arms.

    I do a silly sort of breast stroke crawl kick, so the feet go out causing a restriction in the flow.

    Dont think wetsuits are often used in Zurich unfortunately.
  • so Joe, what tips do you have on learning to kick properly? Do flippers help you to get the correct feel? My legs really do just drag behind/below me if I dont do that stupid kick, but its ineffective, so wonder what is worse.
  • wots a diagonal kick?
  • Best google that and read some stuff.
    not that I'm into TI but there's a good image here

    Kick boards are great for
    a) Talking to your lane mates
    b) Working the muscles needed for cycling
  • see his legs are completely straight in that diagonal kicking, thats kicking from the hips I presume ?? Thats really hard, dont think I ve ever got that right. Perhaps oneday the switch will turn on, will just keep plugging away, but there must be someway of getting the feeling of what those legs should be doing, surely??
  • Go to the deep end of the pool, stand straight and kick to tread water. Keep you shoulders above the water. For fun try raising your hands above your head.

    Fins can help when doing lots of kick drills and some slower drills to aid propulsion.

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