FLM 09 - 3.45ers!



  • Hi All and Welcome NFS,

    Sorry I can't help with the picture L.S. If I was even the slightest bit technically competent I would have ditched the duck for something more glamorous by now !

    Jus , you were right and i was quite stiff on Monday. Now feeling fine, up and downstairs with no sigt problem. Almost tempted to go for a plod but thinking of the longer term.I have a physio appt booked for next tues. Anyone had any experience of ITB ? there seems to be all sorts of conflicting opinions on what's best treatment.

    Hope everyone else is fit and enjoying there training.

    Hope everyone else's niggles are
  • Hmmm not sure what happened then... trying to cook dinner and post at same time - and I thought us girls were s'posed to be good at multi-tasking !!
  • Hi Quickquack, glad to hear that your niggles did not last to much past Monday. Can't help with the ITB, have you tried search on here, I have seen the topic come up a few times. Just remember listen to your body and don't over do it, hope your back in the game soon.
  • thanks all for replies

    little stoker,

    thanks for compliments,

    frank spencer! bloomin cheek (okay, i did feel a bit like him on the day!)i am a 5' 8''tall, 13 stone moderate drinking T-Shirt printer though, so hardly the ideal running machine! Sports massage bloke i went to see before FLM said i looked more like a rugby player!


    nothing wrong with a little duck!......... as for your injury, i had ultrasound and massage, bought new shoes and never had a problem with ITB since


    thanks for dynamic thing, will look for that


    We have a school of podiatry here in Northampton, that don't charge, very lucky i guess. Could you find similar?
  • Hello everyone,

    hi need for speed, welcome mate. You will thrash sub 4. If not for the Frank Spencers hitting you I think you would have nailed it this year.

    Glad you fighting fit QQ.

    There seem to be some excellent runs going on here! Long may it continue.

    LOR - go get sub 4 at Abingdon my friend. Got everything crossed for you.

    I am taking tomorrow off to due another 20 miler.Will probably not run then until the dreaded Cardiff marathon. Cant wait to get it out of the way. If I was not running for my dear dad I would have pulled out ages and ages ago!
  • Hello peeps :o)

    I agree with everyone else, NFS. You almost certainly haven't achieved your full running potential yet, and certainly not your full marathon potential judging by your half-marathon PB. But you need to get your heel injury sorted out. Has your GP or podiatrist mentioned a steroid injection?

    LS, I can't "do" pictures either, or I'd have replaced mine with one of a cute green Lego velociraptor that some of my favourite boys made and spent ages photographing in the undergrowth for me.

    QQ, glad you're feeling better. I've got an ITB too. I've had painless crepitus in my left ITB since I started running, and it led to me DNFing the Loch Ness Marathon last year. Had some bother with it this summer but stretching had a miraculous effect. It still niggles now and then but I seem to be able to stretch it away. It's God's little joke, for She knows I don't really believe in stretching.

    I've just done my last long run before Abingdon. Not analysed the splits yet, but I did around 19 miles in under 2.50 and my last mile was as fast as my second (the first doesn't count because it was almost all downhill). I had a few more miles in my legs when I stopped, but decided not to go over my planned distance. If I can have THAT good a run on the day, sub-4 is going to happen a lot earlier than expected. But it's doubtful because I just haven't done enough long runs.

  • V.rap, you are doing everything absolutely spot on. Your last long run was perfect. Do not under estimate your chances. How do you know you aint done enough lsr's?

    With plenty of rest now, I think you will find that your best run is still to come. Five weeks before London this year I hammered a 20 miler. Never run that well before or since. I left my best performance out on the training course.

    Please, go into the race with lots of confidence. Just take a couple of secs. to think back over your recent 10k, Half. You know you are in good form.

    I have every faith in you.

    As for your photos chaps. Select your photo. Open in it in photo editor. Resize the document to 100 pixels wide, 120 high. Save it somewhere you will remember. Then in your details, click on change photo, browse then select where you saved it!

    Something like that!!
  • Thanks, RD :o)

    I know I haven't done enough long runs because my 5 longest training runs will have been 19, 16, 13.5, 10.5 and 8.75 and of those only the 10.5-miler hasn't been too fast. Plus a couple of half-marathon races, one of which I intend to do at just a fraction slower than 9-minute miling as a training run but realistically there isn't a hope in hell that I'll stick to that plan when I see everyone else pelting off ahead of me on the day.

    But d'you know what? I'm underprepared for this marathon, and I'm doing it as an afterthought, but I'm slightly less underprepared than I was when I did my marathon PB in 2003. And my half-marathon and 10k times have been almost a minute per mile faster than they were back then.

    How are you feeling about Cardiff?
  • Actually, that's a fib. I've done lots of nine-and-a-bit mile training runs in the past month, but they just weren't my weekly long runs.
  • You lost me at " select your photo.." then suggested opening, editing, resizing, saving, clicking, browsing and selecting?
    Is Photo Editor a shop ?
    Why do I have to go there ?
    What's the big secret ?
    Is there a branch near Dundee ?
    I can remember my old address in Bristol, but do I have to save my photos down there, or can it be somewhere in Scotland ?
    I knew I should've climbed less trees when I was a kid, and paid more attention to my house-bound, socially inarticulate Albino cousin on his ZX81.
    He's now a millionaire, very single, lousy company and useless at climbing trees.
  • ROFL, LS! You're probably too fast for this thread, but you have GOT to stay here. Dr Dinosaur's orders. You'll be good for our health ;o)

  • I echo that V rap! Little Stoker, you must stay on this thread!!

    V. rap, 5 hours at Cardiff would be like a pb for me at the moment. I spend more time with dame stella artois at the moment than with my running shoes. I set a world record yesterday for how many pasties could be eaten within the course of an evening.

    Like I say, 5 hours would be one hell of an achievement!

    LS, tomorrow night, I am going to sit down and write the definitive proceedure for you to change your photo ;)
  • Ripped Dap

    i know what you mean about leaving your best run on the training field, 3 weeks before FLM this year, i did the oakly 20 miler, (hilly and windy) in 2.55, come the FLM, i hadn't even covered 18 miles in that time. Even allowing for a touch of the 'Frank Spencers' i was poor on the day?

    Good luck with your training, are you injured or getting over one?
  • NFS,

    my training was spot on until I got a chest infection in August. I had 2 weeks off and have never really 'got back into it' since. For instance, I have booked a day off work today for training. However, instead of training I am sat here tap tapping away.....I'll go in a minute etc etc

    20 miles in 2.55 is some running. Just be confident in your own ability. Sub 4 is definately there for the taking...definately.

    I think as runners, we need loads of confidence in our own abilities. I think that is what causes us to raise the pace in training runs, so that we know we can do it. However, this takes quite a toll on the old body.

    When, I start training for London (fingers crossed) or any other Spring marathon, I am going to keep the pace of my LSR's under control.

    I guess everyone is different though. Some runners may actually improve on raising the pace every Sunday. It's all trial and error.

    Ah, I am off for my plod.....

    See you all later.
  • Plod strong, RD :o)

    I'm going to have to work at reducing the speed of my long runs. The pace I'm training at would be appropriate for someone who's going to do a marathon in about 3 hours and sooner or later my scaly old legs are going to complain loudly about it.

    But long runs are SO much less tedious when the mile bleep thingy goes off every eight-and-a-half minutes instead of every ten-and-a-half minutes!

    My legs are fairly OK today. There'll be a bit of DOMS in my quads by this evening, but nothing dramatic.
  • V, is this thing that bleeps one of these fancy garmin things ?
    Surely if you can do long runs at 8nahalf instead of tennahalf, then thats better all round ? Fair enough if you can only manage shorter distances at that pace, but I still cant get my head around why any run should be slower than the pace you need to hit your target time.I like my lungs to be stretched, or I feel like I did when running with my slower neighbour; lazy and stagnant. Maybe I'm naive, but I just want my long runs week on week to get longer and longer, slowly building up my stamina, and gradually knocking off distances not too far off the full 26.2.
    What are DOMS? I guessed ROFL.
    Do most of you run after work ? I've always ran at 6.30am, but cant rely on being home at the same time every night.
    Gonna have a steady bash at 10 or so miles tomorrow, but if I drop the pace a notch, I may be tempted to keep going. Need a race to work towards.
  • LS, the long runs at slower than race pace are to develop aerobic endurance and fat-burning capacity without causing the sort of muscle damage that you get from racing. The idea is to keep your heart rate within a range at which you're working aerobically - around 70% of maximum. I don't use a heart rate monitor and try to run to a perceived level of exertion. Ideally you should be able to talk in sentences during those long slow runs. At 8.30mm I can manage short fragments of sentences.

    I suspect I'm going to end up having to get a HRM. And I hate gadgets!

    The bleeper is indeed one of these fancy Garmin things. I've got a 205 which is temperamental as hell but which I can't live without now.

    Most of my runs are done after work and at weekends. I'm not an early-morning runner and have to be waking up the household at 7am. Wednesday evenings are when the au pair babysits for me so I run straight from work, and I haven't told the family that I have a regular half-day on a Friday!

    I don't think it's known for certain why we can churn out speeds in racing that we can't reproduce in training.
  • The LSR really is a conundrum. Everything you read suggests running them at slower than race pace but most runners including myself seem to think its a daft idea "long slow runs produce long slow runners!" I am starting to wonder if I'm wrong. Injuries are certainly more likely if the body is tired and with a long run up to a marathon we are all tempted to do too much. Maybe we should be a bit careful on the longer runs and give ourselves a break.
  • Oh and the Garmin thingy. I had a 101 but it was stolen recently along with my running shoes, orthotics and about £1000 of other family clothes etc. I do mis it and will replace once the insurers cough up. And I lost my FLM 2005 souvenir running shorts in the same bag which was nicked from the train I was on.
  • Just done a relaxed 11 mile, fairly hilly run in 1 hr 28 mins. Really chuffed as the longest run me and my mate with the bad knees did was 8.6.
    Previously I've always tried to push hard on every run, but can now see the benefit to slowing down the pace, and achieving longer distances, and time on my feet, without the mental torture !At no stage in the run did my breathing or legs start to go, but would others reckon I should slow down even more ?
    HRR, now to me, that run was relaxed at 8 min miles, and I could've gone on a bit. Maybe if my target run was say 15 miles, then I'd try and go slower, but sadly I'm a pauper, and have to judge it myself without state of the art technology strapped to my wrist !
    Maybe I'll ask Santa for a bleepy thing.
  • 8 min miles!! And that was relaxed? I find even 5 miles at 8 m/m hard work.
  • LS, if you can handle that sort of pace for those sort of distances I reckon sub 3.30 is a realistic aim.

    But don't leave this thread!

    I have a garmin 305 and would ditch Mrs Dap before I got rid of that.
  • Relaxed 8-minute miles? All downhill with the wind behind you, I trust, LS ;o)

    I've just done a nice 10-miler at a little under 9mm pace. Wasn't quite as effortless as my long run on Wednesday, but it was comfortable. That brings me to about 39 miles for the week, and Sunday's race will take me over 50, which will be new territory for me. So far I'm managing to keep on top of the refuelling.

    Had my first surreal FLM dream for years last night. It involved forgetting to take my race number with me, and trying to buy a replacement from the Aston Villa ticket office
  • Reading all the above I am also now getting my head around the Long Slow Run pace question. If going slower will improve fitness with less chance of injury then when I restart my training I'm definately going to give it a go tho' I know I will struggle not to pick up the pace. Of course if that means that I might even enjoy running over 10 miles then that will be a definate bonus !!

    Hope everyone has good weekend runs. Keep going with the marathon trainig RD and Vrap.. not long to go now. L.S keep up the cracking pace... and the cracking posts !!
  • Thanks QQ.

    4 mile recovery run today, seven miles slow tomorrow and probably 1 or 2 sharper sessions next week and that is it! Then a taper/recovery for Snowdonia 2 weeks later.

    Good luck everyone with your efforts this week end.

  • I guess that's it until next Sunday!

    Feeling as good as I can expect after so little, sporadic training. I kid you not, if I finish at all next week, I will place it as a huge achievement.

    Chilling out now, listening to an opra believe it or not, Gorecki, symphony no 3. Mrs Dap, is slightly more cultured than me. Off to Birmingham on a course tonight, home Thursday and I guess a few days relaxtion before the marathon!!

    Hope all you runs are going/went really well.
  • Good evening everyone :o) Hope all your runs, races and other excursions went well today.

    RD, I'm a Brummie so if you'd like to go out for a tiny little tapering kind of run when you're in town, drop me a mail.

    My plans to run the Kenilworth half as a training run came slightly adrift. It was a lovely cool day, the route had just exactly the right amount of undulation to avoid being boring (hilly, my @rse!) and I went round comfortably in 1.42.28 by my watch.

    Fantastic, scenic, well-organised race! I'd recommend it to everyone :o)
  • Wow Vrap you're flying.. Very Well Done.

    Any more races like that one and we're in danger of losing you to the sub 3:45 ers !!

    Seriously your training has obviously been spot on. Any tips form the top ? - apart from the phenomenal mileage you've bee doing that is ?
  • Todays run went really well. I've been increasing my sunday runs and today went back to Richmond Park and ran for 1 hour 50 (1:52:16 on the watch).

    I still need to get my foodpod calibrated on my Polar RS200sd, but going by mapmyrun.com, I did 13.3 miles (eek, that's a 1/2 mara), on a 8:27 m/mile pace.

    If I go by what my footpod said, it was 12.68m at a 8:51 m/mile pace. From recent experience the footpod is under-measuring so I'm going to go with the mapmyrun results for now.

    Now its a couple of much shorter sessions this week in preparation for the Cabbage Patch 10 miler on Sunday.
  • LOL, a "foodpod"... What I meant to say was "footpod".

    What this does however indicate is that its 8pm on Sunday night and I need to have my dinner!
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