FLM 09 - 3.45ers!

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  • fi fifi fi ✭✭✭
    <<tumbleweed floats by>>
  • fi fifi fi ✭✭✭
    No running for me today,i have the dreaded lurgy and have a lovely croaky voice...kids are getting away with allsorts coz i can't shout at them.
  • Fine 8 mile ( most off road ) run around Forfar this morning.
    A combination of frozen potholes and colossal unavoidable puddles, which left us with sodden frozen feet for most of the run.
    Good pace and good steep climbs on a perfect, frosty, blue sky, Sunday, when it felt great to batter in a run, read the paper, eat breakfast, and soak in the tub, all before the boss got out of bed, grumpy that the kids had wakened her up by playing happily at 10.45 !!?
    Achilles still feels stiff, but I'm sure it'll settle down with ice packs, and the heel cushions I'm wearing. Want to have a decent week of mileage this week.
    Spent the afternoon picking pebbles on Lunan Bay beach with the wife and offspring. The coal fire is all set to be lit, there's snooker on the telly, and a bottle of red with my name on it.
    Has there been a more perfect Sunday ?
  • Having steadily increased my mileage from 7, 8, 9, 10 and to 11 miles the past five Sundays, am I a bad man for not running today??!

    In fairness to myself, I did go to the gym to do some cross-training instead (got a day off work tomoz so gonna run then).



    Read my FLM training blog online at:
    http://www.whtimes.co.uk/flatfiles/weblogs/chris_lennon.aspx
  • 5 mile threshold run today. Set Garmin to 7.30 pace for a bit of a laugh and off I went. Well Garmin was having one of its off days and was all over the place so I was just made sure I was up with the pace on a mile by mile basis. Result was I smashed my PB by 38 secs and went under 37 mins for the first time ever! Where's this all come from? I think it is partly due to better training, more intensity and variation. I also think however that the real answer is that I am actually putting a lot more effort into these threshold runs than I have in the past. I feel I have come out of the comfort zone on these runs. I am now wondering what to do with my fartlek sessions. I have horrible suspicion that I am actually running some of my fartlek speed bursts slower than my average threshold speed!!
  • Well done, HRR! You're absolutely flying :o)

    I did the Langdale 10k today. The course was reputed to be "not as hilly as you'd expect", which, this being Cumbria, turned out to mean that the course didn't quite go all the way up Bowfell. Lovely day, breathtakingly scenic, civilised start time (midday) and a hard but fast race.

    At the start, having driven in along the course, I was hoping to stay under 50 minutes. I ended up with 46.06 by my watch (46.10 officially, but they had to check my number twice at the finish), which is a good PB, and 5th FV40 :o)

    Good 10 miles and 1000m of verticality on Saturday too :o)
  • Cracking run Vrap. 5th in your catagory is a fantastic result. And after such a big run the day before.
  • 'Twas just a walkie in the hills the day before, HRR :o) It seemed a shame not to, when we were in the Lake District anyway. I SO want to live there!

    Just done a nice little recovery run, and I have a horrible feeling the schedules say something big tomorrow.

    It's starting to get icy now. While in the land of outdoor sports shops, I bought a set of Grivel spiders (like little crampons that fit to the middle of your shoes) for descending hills in frosty conditions, and nifty little rubber gadgets for giving ordinary shoes and trainers spiked forefeet, for running in the snow. So I absolutely do not need any more winter running kit. Managed to get a climbing-harness too, without the indignity of having to try kids' sizes :o)
  • nice times Velo & HRR, haven't run fast for a while due to hamstring tweak so hate to think how slow I am. Like the sound of that winter running gear Velo, are you a bit of a hard core fell runner ?? are you doing the Auld Lang Syne fell race on New Years Eve ? it's great fun and well muddy, unless it's really cold you'd probably need waders rather than crampons.

    Quite proud of myself for managing to get up early saturday morning and doing a 17 mile run after having the office party the night before . There again I wasn't drinking as I was driving and it was only a slow run out in 2.44, but it did have 2150 ft of ascent (don't you just love garmins !!)

    Hope the cold get's better fi fi , aiming for around £2,000 although managed £2,500 last year. Yep the quicker the time you put down the better the pen you get at the start. Having said that it is nowhere near as busy as the GNR and you can normally run at your own pace within a mile or so.

    off for a tempo run at lunchtime, hope the legs hold out

    cheers

    beders
  • Managed my longest run ever yesterday. Just over 7 and a half miles in 1:11 around Tooting Bec Common with a friend whose just got his place through the ballot. Well Chuffed!

    I think he's gonna register for this forum sometime soon.

    There must've been a race going on as we were getting some peculiar looks from some spectators and some particularly fast runners kept overtaking us. I think they thought we kept cutting corners off the course!
    very Strange!
  • Jeeez - you're all flying out there in 3:45 land!

    Completed a leisurely Half Marathon length run yesterday morning in a shade over 2 hours and feel absolutely great except that my neck has stiffened up - ouch!

    Take it you're using the newer Garmin to measure ascent 'cos mine is crap at that - had me 100ft in the air whilst running along the beach!


  • Alas, beders, I'm not even a little bit of a fell-runner. Just a hillwalker who wears Inov8s instead of boots. Tell me about this Auld Lang Syne fell-race, though - it sounds interesting!

    On NYE I'll be, at best, shepherding our collective three youngest children round a local 2k fun run while eL Bee!, Haggis and the older kids do the associated 5k race.

    DtF, the new Garmin is a little hit and miss with measuring ascent too. I used a more reliable method - eL Bee! and a Harvey's map.

    Some good runs going on this weekend!

    I'm supposed to be doing a 12-miler today, but it's looking a little precarious. I might just have to go out and do whatever time permits.
  • Velo what a cracking run.

    I realsied yesterday that i have run every day but one in the last 10; including two 15 milers, so understandably my long slow run was was just that in exactly 2.30 at 10mm and 6 minutes slower than the previous Sunday.

    Was creamed at the end (and the beginning to be honest) and have awarded myself a day off today, which i deserve.

    Trying to build up the workload before week off skiing and probably over-compensating to avoid guilt!

    Have a good week all.

    Who says i am obsessive?

  • Calm down DP its only a Marathon. Rest days are very important. Tired bodies get injured. Be careful out there.
  • Quick question for you experts. I have downloaded the RW sub-4 programme to my Garmin using a target time of 3:45.

    However the Sunday long run is at 9:27 - 9:47 pace. Is this right? Never having trained for a marathon before I had assumed that my long run would be at race pace. Any help grateful recieved.

    Roll on 1 Jan so I can start my 16 week programme!!!!
  • Hi Jaydubs. There is a theory (certainly held by the RW people) that you do your long run slower than race pace; up to 2 min per mile slower! The idea is that you learn to run with a slower heart rate which helps your endurance or something like that. It also means you are running for longer which is good both physically and mentally. I personally like to do all my long runs at race pace. You will find more info on the RW website, somewhere!
  • Jaydubs, the time on the schedule is correct. Your long run should be up to 2 minutes per mile, or 20%, slower than your marathon race pace.

    Sticking to that pace is a bit of an act of faith, especially early on in the schedules when your long runs are short enough for you to run them relatively quickly and your overall mileage isn't high. But trying to welly out long runs at race pace is a guaranteed recipe for injury.

    Your long run is your slowest run, and its purpose is to give you the basic building-blocks of endurance - strong muscles with lots of mitochondria to produce energy and lots of little blood vessels to bring nutrients to your muscles and carry away waste products. You can only get these training benefits by staying within your aerobic zone and by gradually increasing the length of these long runs, aiming to finish as strongly as you start rather than grinding to a shuffle by the end. If you were going to run a marathon and could only do one training run a week, the long slow run would be the best run to do.

    You can do shorter runs faster, though you should only reach race pace during speedwork sessions and races.

    I've recently done a marathon quite comfortably at just under 9mm pace. There is no way what Noakes, in The Lore Of Running, calls the "central governor", would let me do even the first mile of a 15-mile training run at that pace. My long runs are usually about 9.50mm pace from start to finish, and that's not because that's as fast as I can run. On tempo runs I'll do three or four miles at close to 7.30mm pace, and my shorter, mileage-gathering runs are usually 8.45-9mm pace.

    Over the years, I've made every marathon-training mistake in the book. I've accelerated through the schedules and ended up injured. I've done all my runs at the same pace and ended up injured. I've introduced speedwork when I had barely outgrown walk-breaks and ended up injured. I've wasted valuable time and ATP in the gym and the swimming pool and ended up underperforming. I've now decided to accept that I'm made of the same sort of protoplasm as every other runner, and do what the books and more experienced runners advise. I've reached a weekly mileage I'd once have said wasn't possibly for me, notched up PBs that are in a different league from the ones I set a couple of years ago, and am enjoying running more than ever.

    It could all go wrong tomorrow, of course, but my message is that the long slow run is slow for very sound reasons.
  • does anyone know of any good sports massage people in the hastings or near to hastings area?
    as only done one marathon before and felt that getting a regular leg massage would help me this time round, especially as i want to beat my pb of 3hr 51 mins
  • Velo

    Thanks for taking the time to write that excellent explanation. Slow and long it is then. I'll just need to curb my desire to see an improved time with each run and save it for race day.

    There are a couple of opportunities for 10k and 1/2m races so I should be fine. Ta
  • Now I know why everyone says these forums are good! It's my first marathon and I've got lots of help from a coach at my running club ... but it's still an act of faith to do what somebody else says - especially when everyone's so different!

    Velociraptor, that was a great explanation .. will try to remember your wise words next time I'm out plodding!
  • <Howard sneeks back on to the thread>

    There are different opinions on the long run theory but Vrap is right in that you should be cautious if this is your first marathon. Your build up should be slow because the main priority is to avoid injury as you certainly don't want to have to stop running for a few weeks in the middle of your schedule! As you become more experienced you know better what your body can cope with.

    I have one friend on another thread who runs 2 or three marathons a year sub 3.15 who always says when this issue is discussed: "Long slow runs makes long slow runners". But he is in a different league.

    I went to the barbers today. Not only did I have a haircut but in order to shave (wait for it) even more seconds off my PBs and scrape under 4 hours next April I had my beard taken off. First time in 18 years. The rest of the family have not seen it yet so I'm a bit nervous!
  • HRR, or Baby Soft Chubby Cheeks.

    Today I was collared by my wife to don a beard and be the Santa for the old folks at the Day Care centre where she works. Is running a marathon for them not enough ?
    I started off being a bit gruff "HO F*****g HO !" but soon got into the Christmas spirit, flirting with the 90 year olds like I was some kind of celebrity !? I never shave the 2 n a half weeks I'm off at Christmas, but always look more Worzel Gummidge than bearded George Clooney.

    Achilles still gets sore after runs ( last one was Sundays 8 mile romp through the frozen fields of Forfar ), so I may have to fork out on a new pair of shoes that are less flexible than the Saucony's.

    Busy few days before the kids break up with my hot air gun, a selection of scrapers, a mountain of wire wool, and a gallon drum of nitro mors, as I expose the beautiful wood that is under layers of gloss, on the doorframes and skirtings in my hoose.

    Merry Christmas everyone !!!!
  • Hey guys, just a quick email to introduce myself. I've a relative newcomer to running, having started just six months ago at the age of 37. Improving with every run but the longest event I've completed is the half marathon (Cardiff 1:56 on 15-Oct and Torfaen 1:50 on 22-Oct).

    Missed out on a place at the FLM but have found out that I'm definitely in the Edinburgh marathon five weeks later.

    So my plan is to stick with you guys on this forum and follow the training schedules for the FLM, but then rewind five weeks at the end and repeat those last five weeks as I build up towards Edinburgh. I hope no-one tells me that's a terrible idea, as I will really benefit from the camaraderie!

    Best of luck to you all!
  • Hullo Simon,
    I lived in Bristol for 12 years, and enjoyed a few dirty weekends in my mates cottage in Freshwater East near Tenby !
    Also 37, and I've only run 2 proper Halfs in 1:53 and 1:50, although I do now try and do a 13.1 run once a week, with the PB for that being 1:39.

    Keep setting new goals, and record all your times, and you'll see huge leaps forward.

    Good luck and welcome.
  • Hi Guys

    Re the Long Slow Runs...I echo all that Velo says (not that I totally understand it all!). But the LSR definately help and now mine are at a much quicker pace than a year ago. I'm still a bit of a plodder - but at least a plod with a bit more vigour!

    I am starting the FIRST schedule in a couple of weeks - it comes highly recommended!

    Hope the new look goes down well HRR...could save you seconds.

    DtF
  • fi fifi fi ✭✭✭
    Evening all,
    Great running going on .Congrats on the PB v.Rap.

    I have just filled out my GB entry form with time of 3:49...hope i am not tempting fate,but feel this is a realistic goal.
    I probably should not admit this on here...and i would never recommend this...but i ran NY and Rotterdam on an empty stomach and only water!!
    I suffer with many a stomach problem due to running.I have since experimented and found food and gels that agree ...i think this is the key:-)
  • hi DTF, I did the 'first ' schedule last year,it was a godsend as I'd picked up a bit of any injury and so only running 3 times a week kept me injury free and managed to break the 4 hr in 3.57. not usinf it this year as injury free and one of the top vets at my running club has taken me under his wing so I'll be doing a lot more running this year to try and get below 3.45. Having said that if it's your first marathon it's a great schedule for getting you round in a reasonable time AND injury free.

    sounds good to me SK, the more the merrier, and those extra weeks training will simply give you more endurance if handled right.

    Hey Velo, the Auld Lang Syne is at 11.00 am from the quarry at penistone hill country park at haworth on new years eve and really is one of the best fell runs out there. Around 400+ runners so plenty of people to follow and great muddy fun. It's about 6.5 miles and 900ft of ascent although this year I've got my garmin so will be getting some proper figures !! It's only £3 and entry on the day, if you can make it , it's a perfect end to the year. Some of the top runners even dress up , never seen batman, robin and several nurses so muddy yet still so damm fast !!

    talking of fells, after manageing my first interval session for a few months, only 5 x 1K efforts at 10K pace, 4.37-4.24 I'm now going to reward myself with a jog out over the moors in glorious sunshine.

    have a great day's running

    cheers

    beders
  • Hi all
    Not been on the forum for a couple of weeks but the old training is still going well.My last three lsr's have been 10,11 and 12 miles respectively and i've just remembered what it's like to run past 10 miles(no pain no gain)
    Velo read with interest your explanation of the long slow run.I must admit that i do actually run pretty close to my expected race pace on my long slow run(9min mile)i dont really do this on purpose it just feels a comfortable pace for me to run and i'm not constantly checking my stopwatch.Today for example i started my watch ran 12 miles stopped my watch and it read 1 hr 47 mins which is roughly bang on my expected pace.
    I'm not sure i would feel comfortable running any slower it feels like i'm out there long enough if you know what i mean.
  • Running slower than the pace that comes naturally without losing form is definitely something that has to be learned. I think I had an advantage in having started out as a plodder - my "normal" training runs are now at what used to be my 10k race pace. So it's not difficult for me to run just under 10mm pace, though that may quicken up a little as the weeks progress because I'm looking to race at 8mm pace.

    And yes, I've done the "I can only run at the pace I run" thing in the past too! Which has meant that I've run short runs easily, struggled towards the end of 7-10 milers, and been doing an awkward and uncomfortable mixture of walking and slow sprinting by the end of 15-milers. And then got injured.

    The "time on feet" aspect of the long slow run helps too. It prepares you for that part of the marathon (and there will be one) where your legs are grinding out the miles laboriously while your rational brain is telling you to quit.

    Simon, I think repeating the last 5 pre-taper weeks of the schedule is a good idea and allows you to consolidate your long runs :o)

    It's going to be interesting to see how we all perform using different approaches to training!



  • Hi everyone!

    What a week. I have been ensconsed in a slaughterhouse this week, inspecting ruddy turkeys. Christmas? Bah humbug!

    Not one single solitary run this last six days :(

    Never mind, back to it tomorrow ;)
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