A bit of a harsh mother?

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  • hey, it had actualy paragraphs AND full stops in it, and some of them were even in sensible places - what more do you want?

    i get tactile hypersensitivity a lot, but mostly clothes - fortunately i'm not that fussed about food texture.
    I have found a good way round the haircuts bit though - not had one for, oh, six years now? hate people poking my head. Dentists are horrible - mum used to have to give me diazepam (sedative) to get me to go, and i still have manky teeth.
  • dunno about music - no-one in my family is that interested & i wasn't really exposed to much 'till uni.
    but i would (& still can) do physically repetitve stuff for hours - these days that's mostly running, but it's also been things like rocking & headbanging. having a weird pain threshold is quite useful for running - though i really can't wear a woolly jumper, then i've managed to get broken bones a few times as a child without anyone noticing for a while 'cos for some things i have a high pain threshold (and tend to fall off, over or into everything). it's like someone messing round with the volume control all the time. can be very annoying - i tend to get worse running injuries & not get medical help when i should 'cos i'm just not paying attention.
  • Mrs FR "styms" or rocks a lot when she's stressed or tired. Less so when she's not, but can "forget" to do stuff (like eating, sleeping and going to the loo) if her mind gets taken with something.

    I think thats where the pinball bit somes from. If its raining hard or its windy, then there's lots of random sensory input, so pinging away on the machine (which has a pattern to the sensory inputs it produces) helps to blank out the random white noise.
  • boy 1 has no trouble doing without sleep, he stayed up for the cricket and managed the full 36 hours without a nap



    was thinking of this thread today because:
    mr has brought home some Debenhams vouchers which he was given at work
    boy1 has asked me three times a day since they were put on the notice board, when mr is planning on spending them and what is he going to buy. he can't stop thinking about them.

    boy1 has strange pain sensation - i think, he does not complain of toothache until his tooth is ready to come out and he never complains or even comments when he has new orthoses. he just wears them, says they are fine
    but when he is fighting with his brothers he shouts the loudest if he gets hurt!!

    i remember having to break it to my mum that he really couldn't tolerate wearing the lovely woolen jumpers she had knittted him (1st grandchild)

    also, can't wear t shirts that are snug round the neck - thank goodness for football tops

    anyone getting bored with this
    i could go on all day
    sorry
    i don't belong to any support groups and i don't want to
    but every now and again it reassures me that i am not bonkers and he really is different from other kids to read stuff like what has been posted on here




  • well, there's strange pain sensation, and then there's learning how to win fights with your brother :) bonus points for social observation!

    i can get away with woolly jumpers with a long-sleeved top underneath - very useful 'cos for a few yrs my gran kept making me them for christmas (poor lady - she's my step-gran and could not work out why so many of her new family did not like her knitting), and wearing them at family occasions was compulsory. fortunately now she knits teddies for a hospital in Romania instead, and we just admire them before they go.

    i definitely tend to 'forget' about sleep - which is very annoying when trying to do 9-6 job, 'cos i get to lunch time then realise my eyes won't actually stay open much more without sellotape. managed to sleep 2 hours one night this week, & 16 last night, & lack of daylight really is not helping. i think that's one reason i like running - if i go running every day, i have to do things like eating & sleeping, otherwise i notice it when i'm running but not most of the time. must've driven my parents bananas when i was little - i don't stay asleep very long, and little brother won't go to sleep in the first place - even at home in the hols now then we often just see each other while i'm waiting for it to be light enough for an early morning run & he's finishing annhilating hordes of Orcs on the computer having been up all night...
  • Its OK Lurks, I'm not bored. Its the same for me, you get so used to living in this "different world" you sometimes forget you're an NT.

    As you say - its reassuring to know that there are others with the same experience around you.

  • went to boy2's nativity thing at school
    boy3 was totally unable to sit through it
    i know he gets pulled out of assembly on a regular basis

    i am pretty sure he is on the spectrum somewhere
    or
    he is a genius who requires stimulation all the time

    :-)
  • I was always completely unable to sit through my kid's school nativity.

    Nothing to do with me being on the spectrum - everything to do with the chairs being intolerably uncomfortable :-))

    There's a populist view that genius and autistic traits are somehow linked. You'll read various suggestions that Einstein, Newton, Mozart, Jefferson, and more recently Bill Gates were or are on the spectum. There's some evidence to support this (they all - for example found it hard to relate to other people on a social level, and Mozart in particular exhibited distinct behavioural problems not a million miles from ADHD), but only Einstein really provides and hard emperical evidence. His brain was preserved after he died, and it does indeed show marked physical differences to the common or garden NT brain.

    I take the view that there's something of the autistic in us all, and the definition of "normality" is a social convention that shifts. There are very few truly Neurotypical people.

    As society becomes louder, faster and less predictable, those higher up the spectrum fall further and further away from the mainstream. Its no coincidence that over half of all ASBO's are issued against people with some form of ASD. Similarly the suicide rate amongst people with these conditions is far higher than amongst the general population.





  • and the prison population!!

    i have a form to get a card for boy1 that says he is on the spectrum so that, if he is ever arrested or questioned by police he has it to hand

    i have always worried that he could be with a bunch of lads messing about and he will be the one left standing.

    i agree about us all having a bit of it
    my two fears (apart from heights) are:
    getting lost
    and
    being in situations where i do not understand what is expected of me

    which i think could fit in neatly on the autistic spectrum

  • I think it was Temple Grandin: 'If we took autistic traits out of the gene pool, everyone would be standing round in caves chatting to each other'.
    I do wonder though - i am fairly sure that if i ever get as far as grandchildren there will be pre-natal screening for ASD. i'm quite sure my mum wouldn't've accepted it (she was offered Down's screening 'cos of being old, but didn't accept that). but... don't suppose i'd be allowed to insist that i definitely do want a dyspraxic child, 'cos they are much more interesting and i could do all sorts of experiments *evil mad scientist cackle*. & that does worry me. Most of the papers I've been able to find (and a look at my family tree - all my family coming from the same small patch of mid-Wales has to have some advantages) have dyspraxia as being recessive X-chromosome linked, so I'd expect that should I have children at least all the boys would get it - i wonder how long it'll be before i'd be called 'irresponsible' or worse for having children. Stupid really, 'cos in my family at least it's very highly correlated with having a higher degree &/or measured non-verbal IQ above 130.
    there are some interesting ideas on 'assortative mating' - basically that one reason (& i know there are many others) for recent rise in autism diagnoses is that with increased social & physical mobility people are better able to marry other people like them - so there ends up being clusters of ASD in places like Cambridge & Silicon Valley. something my Mum definitely noticed being a health visitor in Cambridge (& i saw quite a bit of this myself working with 'special needs' children there) is that with most of the children she'd see with 'no family history of autism', then she'd visit the parents and they'd often have quite obvious ASD traits. Of course, from a few yrs living with mostly maths & compsci students at uni, then it's exceptional not to display at least some aspie traits (innate or learned) by the time you get as far as PhD level.
    but - can you really blame people for wanting 'normal' children? i wonder if you'd put it to my parents before i had turned up 'your child will have a horrible disorder which will mean they will never make friends, your marriage will almost certainly break down, she may well never be able to live independently or cope with day-to-day tasks' (all things 'professionals' have said about me or brother) they'd have had me - but if you put it as 'well, she'll probably be a bit like her uncle P, with some odd interests in obscure things like the English Civil War and toxicology, with any luck she'll be able to make a good living out of these & find a niche even if the neighbors might think she's a bit odd'

    Talked to Mrs FR about the pinball - it does seem to be much the same thing as running for me - one big patterned input instead of lots of little uncontrolled unpatterned inputs it much easier to cope with. Thedisadvantage of running of course is that i am not paying enough attention to not running into cars & lampposts & things.
  • Good idea on the arrest card. I've got picked up for looking like i might be 'shoplifting' a few times (i suppose tending to wander round busy supermarkets with hoodie, earphones, and looking nervous whilst being young & female does make me look a bit suspicious - but it's 'cos i really really hate supermarkets & busy shopping centres & headphones & hoodie cut down on sensory stuff). Security guards who say 'you can't possibly have autism, you're a girl / you can talk / you look far too normal' are incredibly annoying.
    Also been arrested a few times for doing political stuff (sitting in a road outside nuclear missile base most recently) and routine mouth swabs for DNA are not much fun (someone grabbing my head while someone else puts a toothbrush in my mouth is Really Not Good, especially as I don't get on well with the usual sedative meds they'll sometimes give). Knowing what to expect means I can sometimes do my own mouth swabs which isn't nearly as bad.
    Practically I'd really suggest to at least make sure your phone number is in his usual coat / backpack / anything else, 'cos if your son is under age the police will always try to phone you. I'd also suggest drilling him with a pre-prepared speech in case of arrest - actual police (unlike security guards) should know about ASD.
  • the card has the west mids police logo on it
    so they should be aware of it
    and even if they are not
    the logo would at least make them think

    boy1 has no problem remembering our phone number
    i think he had it off pat when he was about 3

    :-)


  • on the family thing
    i am pretty sure my brother had some traits - he is a bit OCD about things, and he was also a very "clumsy" boy

    and i think both my husband and his father have difficulty understanding social situations

    so just pure chance as we were born thousands of miles away from each other



  • Its far more common in males than females (I think the ratio is 1:9). Which is just as well as one of the traits in females is a rather alarming tendency to not "read" predatory male behaviour too well.

    Mrs has been arrested a few times. Mostly for the same sort of reasons as DG. It has to be said that she doesn't help the situation sometimes by (deliberately) slipping into full "Literal interpretation" mode and winding the security guards up. If the word "nutter" is uttered she goes into full Jasper Carrot mode.

    A cure? no thanks. I understand that some people find themselves in desperate circumstances as parents of severly autistic children, but eliminating autism from the gene pool isn't the answer. A large majority of folks on the spectrum have at least a shot of a semi independant life given the appropriate support and acceptance.

    The autistic gene brings too many positives to the party to want to eliminate it altogether.

    Mrs has a rather amusing T shirt:-

    On the front:-

    "Want a straight answer? - ask an Autistic"

    On the back:-

    "Didn't get the answer you wanted? - ask the right question"
  • I should add thatbthe "No thanks" is a joint answer on behalf of the pair of us.
  • i think i am moving to that position
    as he becomes older and i see that he is getting on ok

    when he was younger and i anticipated a lifetime of bullying and rejection by his peers i would have done anything for him to be the same as the others
    even if it meant losing all those special qualities that he has that make him him

    but now i see that he copes well
    he protects himself - the long but not long enough to be a "goth" haircut, making mewak in front of him up the high st when there were a load oflads from his school around, not a big deal, he just dropped back. i was impressed with that.

    when he started senior school i told him there would probably be a bit of teasing from the kids in the year above,now that they were no longerat the bottom of the school
    he said
    "well, i've been teased every day of my life, i think i can cope with a few more"
    but he said it in a jokey way
    i think he can cope



  • This is all fascinating to me. I suspect that I have some traits - clumsy clumsy, some of the sleep habits discussed above, ability to totally phase out the rest of the world (less so now that when younger) and more and more.....The diagnosis of my nephew as being on the spectrum has kind of highlighed my interest.

    I find it a bit strange and often don't know what advice to offer as I quite fancy curling up in front of repetitive images on TV stroking my ribbon and sucking my thumb as he likes to. I worry that as a middle child he often misses out as elder bro asks for what he wants and gets it and youngest new sis is still a tiny baby and as such focus of attention.

    Thanks for all the info chaps - really useful to me. I just want to deal with him like any other 5yr old but also want to know things for him to do and try that might bring him out of himself more - his language is still very poor - mostly I think as people just predict and he doesn't need to ask for things. Now I need to stop typing before I 'do' an IDG.....!
  • lurks - well, rather a lot of my friends especially at 6th form were 'goth', and my brother is properly - as subcultures go it's one of the easiest to get away with being 'odd', and it's easier to get odd looks for the way you dress (and support from a peer group for that) than for acting weird.

    'growing out of' hyper-focusing - most little children hyperfocus to some extent (why they will eg rote-learn lots of complicated dinosaur names) & then stop doing that - i reckon this is related to maturation of frontal lobes allowing increasingly controlled & planned attention shift - so they are more easily distracted by things around, or plans for later, instead of focus being controlled by the book in front of them.

    Lunacy - try having a look at Autism Quotient. It is NOT a diagnostic tool, but it's got some interesting questions should you wish to follow up with your GP. I usually score 35-40 (bit more if i'm just in a bad mood). [yes, it is written by Ali G's cousin, though he gets very upset if you mention it - he did some of the work on which that test is based at my 6th form in Cambridge].
  • but he likes RnB!!!

    (yo yo dude)


    :-)

    my other brother is a dungeons and dragons playing, eyeliner at the weekends wearing, kilt wearing, french renaisance historical society acting, goth type
















    police officer!



  • oi - i am in fact providing an excellent illustrative example of perseverative behaviour, not merely rambling on 'cos on a computer it's very hard for people to tell you to shut up ;¬)
  • me 18
    boy2 16
    ro (he refused to be called boy3) 21 but bit difficult to do on a 6yo

    boy1 refused!!

  • 28 :o-

    A few years ago I'd have scored considerably higher as well

    it does seem a tad simplistic - scoring slightly agree (which could be very marginal) the same as strongly agree
  • It means we're both the sort of people
    that love doing tests like this.
  • At least I never notice when people have had haircuts. That is some consolation.
  • hmmm - i've actually found that switching to 'obvious freaky weirdo' mode when picked up by security guards actually works quite well, evenif they do insist on having a 'carer' pick me up. it's a lot easier than switching into 'explaining things to official people' mode, & trying to explain that yes, i might come over as very confident & articulate, and can recite PACE & other useful bits of legislation at them practically verbatim, and don't look like an extra from 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest' - but there really is a reason why i have been wandering round with hood up not making eye contact. that tends to make them cross & shout at me for being cheeky, and all the more convinced that i am a serial shoplifter & have just come up with a good scam. also, security guards are less likely to (illegally) search 'raving loony' than 'suspiciously clued-up person', and private security firms tend to be a lot less clued-up than police on the niceties of how to search someone properly (police will almost always just do a pat-down, with 2 officers of the same sex - private security probably won't even know they aren't allowed).
    refusing to speak and going floppy if they try to move you is also quite a good way of getting actual police to turn up instead of security guards. probably not to be recommended without a bit of training though (one advantge of being an activist - i'm quite confident in dealing with police & know procedure well). SCHnews is quite a good place to start, though obviously it's more about what to do if you are arrested on a demo.
  • It means that according to B-C, you are probably better at learning about things than about people,& men tend to score higher than women, as do people in technical professions or who work with numbers for a living. but these sorts of tests when self-administered out of curiosity should be taken about as seriously as those 'personality tests' you get in magazines - a bit of fun, rather than a diagnostic tool.
  • Probably also means you are the sort of person who likes to talk to people on online forums - I'd expect an above-average score from ppl on here :)
  • I do wonder whether runners are particularly prone to it - in some ways it's quite an isolated sport - you against yourself etc
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