Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Marathon training with Mike Gratton
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
There's isn't that much difference - most difference is in the target training paces, which need to be faster to get you to those times. Even if you haven't reached those times yet you will need to start training at them, which is tough initially, but you will adapt fairly quickly.
Thanks Mike and understand that you are organising it so might see you there?!
I am not a huge believer in cross training (unless you are injured etc) as I think time on your feet is invaluable. However any extra forms of training can't really do any harm and I have a question about cycling. I have been looking at your hard training schedule and was wondering what you think about cycling as replacing the easy run of the two daily runs. I cycle to work and back most days (13 miles each way - about an hour or so)and was wondering if you think this can in any way 'count' towards the easy run? Any ideas? Thanks Andrew
A lot of really good stuff here, you will forgive me if I got a little lost in about page 6 of advice!
I really want to qualify for Boston in ‘08.
I ran FLM in 3h35 but managed The Breakfast 16 miles in 1h57, 3 weeks prior. Before that I had a month off running due to over-straining both short calf muscles during a week’s skiing, instead at the physio’s advice, I replaced it with lower impact activities ie swimming, cycling, rowing. I know that I missed out on some serious endurance training right at the worst possible time – But I was hoping for a 3hr 10 when I began at the start of the year.
My PB on a 10k remains around 42 minutes – it was this 2 weeks before FLR.
On that basis, would you suggest following a 3hr 10 garmin schedule for Dublin (or New York if I get in), or should I set my sights a little lower, at least initially? Should I add anything to a programme to assist in getting there?
Thanks heaps for any advice you can give,
Andy.
I would go for the Garmin schedule and precede it with some long slow runs so that you get a good endurance base. But also, as I have suggested to others, use the early summer to do some 10km pace training to improve your 10km times then, with the extra pace and sufficient endurance preparation the marathon targets become more attainable.
I'm pretty new to this whole running malarky but I've got the bug and need to know what to do - help!
I'm currently running 3-4 times a week anything from 3 miles to 7 miles. I'm on about a 11 minute mile
My goal is Paighton-Torquay half marathon in the end of June, 8 weeks away.
What should I be doing to get ready for that?
Bests
Rachel
Just keep doing what you are doing at this stage and gradually increase the length of some of your runs, maybe getting up to 13 miles in mid-June.
Don't worry about speed work at this stage - as you develop an endurance base by simply gradually increasing your weekly mileage you will get quicker.
Your next stage after the half marathon would be to increase to 5 times a week then maybe start to do some simple speed work, such as alternating 10 x 1 min fast / 1 min slow, 2 x 10 mins at half marathon pace with 5 mins jog recovery, 10 x 2 mins up hill with jog/walk back recovery.
So I'll stick with 3-4 runs a week and see if I can up the distance each week..
13 miles seems impossible right now but 7 miles was too untill yesterday!
Rachel
I've just run a pb at London and am feeling really fit and ready to do another marathon (haven't identified one yet). One of the RW articles suggests I could do another marathon 5 - 8 weeks after London but I was wondering how long the long runs in between should be. Also, should I still do a three week taper as I did for London?
Suppose the gap is 8 weeks should I have maybe 2 light weeks and then pick up the last 6 weeeks of the appropriate RW training schedule? I think this means you go from rest to some pretty long runs. On the other hand if I don't do any of the really long runs won't I lose fitness for the 2nd marathon?
Can you advise on the appropriate length of long runs between marathons where the gap is less than the 15 weeks of the RW training schedules.
Thanks
I took one week off with no running at all after FLM, and felt absolutely fine with no soreness after day 2, so was quite pleased. Didnt think I was tired as am waking up full of it every morning at 6am after not so early nights! I did a 5k run monday, 10k Wednesday and 10k today all at an "easy" pace but really struggled, had to walk in the middle of my 10k today, which felt a bit pathetic after my pre FLM weeks of 35-40 miles with no need to walk even later on in my long training runs! When I am running it feels worse than it did when I first started running 5 months ago! I feel like I have lost all my fitness even though I know thats unlikely in a week. Whats happening? Is this normal? I was itching to get back into it and planning my training to increase speed for 10ks over the summer.I have entered a 10k on 20th May. Apologies if I am being stupid, but am obviously fairly new to this and it was my first marathon. Next week am off on holiday for a week but was planning to do a couple of speed sessions in the hotel gym and two or three easier runs of 45-60 mins each. Is this too early? Do I just feel like this because I havent run for a week or am I in need of more rest. My resting heart rate is the same as when I was training for FLM, but Heart rate whilst running at an easy pace higer than during my previousLSR. I would appreciate your advice as to where to go from here.
After a good build up london went badly for me I think due to weather and finshed in 4.36. This was my first marathon but with a PB for the half of 1.44 I so wanted 4.00 hours. As a result have now entered Leicester in october to give it another go!
I followed the FIRST 3 day prog and due to work 3 days a week is as much as I can afford. What should I be doing over the next 6 months? My plan was to pick from the FIRST speed and tempo runs but not sure on distance plus go for aprox 10-13 3 weeks a month with 1 15-20 a month to help build stamina. Any good
martin neal
I've just completed my 3rd marathon, FLM in 3:38 (other 2 last year were 3:58 then 3:41, so improving nicely).
Until now I've been doing about 40 miles per week pretty much all year which includes a long run over 20 miles, 8-10 mile tempo run, speedwork then another run, speed depending on how I'm feeling. It has worked for me as I'm gradually improving.
I'm now looking for sub-3.30 in Leicester and am upping the mileage again. Question is, should I start to bang in more mileage than 40 per week?
I started speedwork last December and it was trashing me for a day or so which is why I kept the mileage lower. I've heard conflicting reports about quality being more important in quantity along with another saying that a high mileage base is important.
Dec 06-Mar 07 went something like this:
Mon:gym/upper body
Tues:speedwork/hillwork with club. 5 miles total including warm up and cooldown
Weds:rest day or gym/upper body
Thurs:tempo run with club-8-10 miles
Fri: gym/upper body
Saturday: 20-24 miles long run
Sunday: 5-7 miles steady or easy run.
I'll be back up to this sort of routine by the end of May. I would like some advice on where to go from there, thanks very much.
I've been following the RW 3:30 16 week programme. Everything has been going quite well, for the 22 mile run 3 weeks out I ran a nice scenic (albeit painful at end) race in 2:55:47.
I have noticed during all my 20 mile runs, and in the race I just did, I really start to feal fatigued at 18-20 miles.
- I drink lucozade sport (about 500ml), take a gel (with caffeine) about once an hour, plus also water throughout about another 500ml.
- Looking at my heart rate it steadily progresses all the way up to about 160-165 in those last 2 miles.
It seems like a steadily progressing fatigue and those last miles are really painful. Particularly the last 2 miles in the race, where my mile times which were steady 8 min miles until the last few miles. They just started elevating and there was not much I could do.
Any thoughts? I am wondering if it is a general thing and I should start running 7:50 mins to keep a little reserve time in the bank. Even during the 9 min mile training runs, those last two miles were still a nightmare (often dropping to 9min 30 - 10 min miles).
So far I have done the 4 20 milers and one 22 miler, but am really concerned about doing the 26.2 and not messing up the last 4 -6miles.
I have three weeks (yesterday) to the Edinburgh marathon and am looking for ways to improve my chances.
Thanks
-Phil
It is possible to run marathons close together and it's not unknown for the second to be better than the first. You need to have the 2 weeks recovery, then I would concentrate on fartlek then tempo runs to keep your fitness without too much in the way of high mileage.
You should be able to get 3 longish runs, up to 2.5hrs is ideal, then a 10 day taper rather than the 3 weeks you just had (which I think won't be necessary since you won't be on peak mileage.
After the second marathon it probable that you will need a full recovery and a full build up to your next marathon otherwise you may start to notice a drop off in fitness and growing tiredness.
It's not unusual to feel generally Ok then find when you resume running that it isn't. It will be a bit play-it-by-ear but if you walk-jog for a bit and try then to lengthen the run sections you'll gradually get back to normal.
It may be partly a mental problem and it isn't unusual for people to find it mentally harder after a marathon. The event requires a very high degree of mental effort to keep pushing yourself - sometimes I think that is lost for a bit when you try to get back to continuous running again.
Just enjoy your holiday and run when you feel like it - it will return.
Initially keep the speed of all runs steady while you increase mileage over a period of 4 or 5 weeks, then gradually re-introduce speed gradually. Start with hill work for strength, then temp runs then 10km pace reps.
Once you have increased and adapted to the higher mileage you should be able to maintain the quantity while gradually feeding back in the quality.
Don't take in too much sugar in the last hour before a long run/race as this may cause a hypoglyciemic reaction (sugar rush followed by a rapid drop as the body tries to level the sugar levels out).
Also don't be tempted to run fast early on to get miles in the bank - this will certainly ensure you use your glycogen stores too quickly and you will crash earlier.
I have a long term itb problem in my left knee, which I can manage, but on my final 20 miler before the race, my right one kicked in for the first time ever. My itbs didn't heal before the race, so I resorted to a cortisone jab on the Wednesday before - I had a lot of charity money riding on it. Whilst it got me round and in a reasonable time, when I went out last Thursday to try a run again, both knees hurt within 2 miles. They've never hurt so quickly in a run before. So, looks like I'll have to rest properly. Any advice on how long before I get back into it (I can't bear not running) and what I can do to speed things up?
It may be you need to see a phsio with good sports/running background to look at the cause of the itb syndrome otherwise it is going to keep coming back. There can be lots of reasons for it, from pelvic position to flat feet so you do need to actually see an expert. These things can nearly always be sorted out once the weekness is found and a rehab plan put in place - unfortunately trying to run through it isn't going to work.
I did FLM this year with th eintention of going sub 4. Like many others, I didn't succeed (too hot for me). I managed 4.18 and a pb (27secs!)
I have now entered Dublin because I think it will be good to try that sub 4 elsewhere and sooner that next April. Dublin is 29/10 so what kind of schedule should I be following? What sort of mileage and how often should I do long runs? I belong to a club so I do a session every week, I also get quite a few races.
Thanks Mike
Thanks for the information about carbo loading. I am hoping that will help and also the taper too. I think I will try another 20 miler this weekend (2weeks to race) rather than the 18 miler at a steady pace and see how it goes. Does that sound like too much though? I don't want to adversely affect the taper.
The other thing is the first 4 miles of the Edinburgh marathon are down hill. Is it okay to go slightly faster as long as I am taking it nice and easy. I am thinking the pace will be quick in the field due to it and wondering if I should just go slightly quicker on the downhill bits as long as I am not working too hard. Then once on the flat settle into race pace?
Thanks for your advice
-Phil
Pretty new to running and I am planning to do my first Marathon this year (Anglesey or Snowdon) are their any training tips that can be given that would help me complete the marathon and is walking half the way ok lol
Jay
My question is really about post-marathon effort: I have my local (Seaford) half-marathon in three weeks time, which I am keen to do, even if it comes soon after a marathon. What strategy would you advice to maintain fitness over that three week period?
Hard or light training?
Very grateful for anything you can offer
I hope you can advise me. I've just run my first half-marathon (a little under 96 minutes).
I'm hoping for a 3:30 marathon in mid-September.
I've read about heart-rate-monitor training, and the importance of slowing down the long, slow run.
I have 18 weeks before the marathon and I'm aware that I could concentrate on the longer, slower work for a few weeks and then switch to faster work, but I'd like some guidance:
(1) Is 18 weeks long enough to follow this strategy?
(2) If so, how long I should focus on the slow runs before I speed things up?
(3) Should I keep some of my faster runs or should the first few weeks be all slow work? A typical faster session has been 6 x 0.75 miles at 10K pace, with 3 minute jog recovery.
Thanks in advance!
Sorry if you have answered this before but I have looked back and can't seem to find it. I am new to running (3 and a half months) with aim of completing New York in November a couple of weeks after 40 BD.
Training is going well and two weeks ago completed Southend Half in 1:41:43 which I was pleased with as first race since school. I am in my first 10Km in a few weeks but have done 45:35 in training.
I currently train 3-4 times a week and do a long run at weekend of up to 14 miles, two 10km type runes (one normally intervals or tempo and about to introduce hills to other one) and a short recovery run.
Two questions:
(1) I am consistently running faster than the suggested times on here particualrly for the easy run. Suggested time is 5:38 min/km and I run naturally at 5:10 or so. Is this a problem and will I benefit if I force myself to slow down?
(2) Have seen all the various training schedules and can't decide which one to follow. Do you have any recommendations. I want NY to be a challenge.
Thanks for your advice.
Keith
I'm currently following a Pfitzinger and Douglas advanced marathon plan and it's got me doing a tempo run, speedwork, middle distance aerobic run, long run and recovery run every week. At the mo, I'm pretty tired, though I've got a recovery week next week (roll on!)
I'm wondering though, given that I do my long runs pretty much all year round along with 2 marathons, what on earth benefit can I get from the middle distance aerobic run? It's not exactly taxing me, so I can't see the benefit, surely a shorter recovery run would be better so I'll be fresher on the tempo/speed? I'm just doing it cos they tell me it'll do me good, increase my aerobic capacity, etc.
What are your thoughts on this?
Many thanks.