Marathon training with Mike Gratton

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Comments

  • Hi Mike, I'm a marathon first timer and so far really enjoying the training. I did a 10k pace on Saturady evening in c.45mins followed by 12miles Sunday in c.lh40mins. I'm targeting sub 4hr marathon but I'm unsure whether I'm pushing too hard in training as it's a new discipline to me. I used to play rugby and always trained as hard as possible so the change of mindset is difficult to adjust to.
    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    John
  • JR, It may be that because of your rugby back ground you may have the ability to run short distances quicker than your 4hr marathon target would suggest. My initial thoughts would be to keep doing your training as you are but try to lengthen the long run to over 2hrs as soon as possible, which may mean slowing it down a little.
  • Thanks for that Mike. Fingers crossed I break the 4hr mark but that's a secondary goal with the primary being complete the marathon. It's not until May (Belfast) but I'll lengthen the Sunday runs on your advice.
  • Hi mike

    i wonder if you can help. I am running my first marathon in september and i am following a training plan. i am increasing my long run by 1 mile per week, up to 8 at the moment. my worry is that where i live is very hilly and sometimes its really hard to keep my heart rate low. my avereage hr is coming out around 158. do you have any advice please.
  • Hi Mike, I'd appreciate some advice please.

    Targetting FLM 4:30 using RW 4:30 schedules. Ran 5:09 three years ago, with 2:17 HM and 2:52 for second half.(I'm a 51 year old male)

    Ran Watford half yesterday in 2:14 (61min fro first 6 miles - uphill), which pleased me as I feared I'd be a lot slower - my pace was pretty even throughout until last mile. These speeds imply, I think, about 4:40 fro marathon.

    Up until now I have done all distances per schedule but missed some of the pace targets.

    Any adjustments you'd advise to (a) maintain current pace for longer and (b) get a bit faster. A group of us are doing hill training every Tuesday rather then the intervals suggested in the schedule. Will this slow me down, speed me up?

    Thanks for any guidance.

  • Hi Mike

    This weekend I completed my LSR of 18.7miles at 72% of WHR, this produced an average mile pace of 8:17 for the distance.

    It felt pretty comfortable.

    My question is this: am I running these too hard? And what do think I should be aiming for on the day?

    I'm following the RW 3:30 plan at the moment and it seems to be going O.K. (hope I've not just spoken too soon....)

    Thanks for any help in advance.
  • Hi Mike

    I'm planning to run the Paris Marathon in April. However for the last 3 months I've been suffering from a knee injury which has prevented me from doing any running. The knee injury is almost comletely healed now and I'm targeting a return to training next week.

    My concern is that when I start running again I overtrain to make up for the lost time.

    Can you give me any advice on what kind of training plan to follow, in order to get me up to speed quickly?
  • Gym Queen, It's difficult to avoid that at the moment other than to walk on the steepest bits to keep your HR down. In time you will become fitter/more efficient and you'll find the hills don't take som much out of you. The plus point is that hilly terrain does build up good leg strength.
  • TP, I wouldn't worry too much about not hitting pace in the long runs, getting out for time on feet is OK for now. The hill work is fine for now but won't make you faster. What it will do is give you a good strength base for when you do switch to intervals which will certainly help with hitting targets for the short fast stuff...this in time will give you the ability to run your long runs at a faster pace - but it's got to come naturally, don't try to run the long ones faster or you will over train.
  • Darrencroc, Long runs at 70/75% of WHR are ideal. When you come to race the marathon you will probably work at 83/85%, but you don't need to be doing your long runs at that level - this will come with the shorter tempo runs.
  • Jim S, It's difficult to advise how to get up to speed quickly - unfortunately the advice is to take it steadily and increase in small increments when there is no recurrance of injury pain. A fast recovery after a longish lay off will more than likely cause another overuse injury.

    Typically, I would suggest that you start with doing 80m shuttle runs on a track trying to run quickly but in control - do 6 to 8 with a walk back recovery initially every other day. Once you are confident the knee can take it start to introduce short steady runs as well and gradually lengthen the distance run - but it is really a question of doing it on feel by assessing any pain and muscle soreness after each run until there is none.
  • cealceal ✭✭✭
    Mike
    I have just seen your reply to Darrencroc's post. You say Long runs at 70-75% WHR.

    Have I been doing it wrong?

    I ran 18 miles in Richmond Park on Sunday at a pace which was about 45 secs a mile slower than estimated MP with an av WHR of 58%. The previous Sunday I ran 18 miles in Great Windsor Park (thus hillier) at a pace that was 70 secs a mile slower than estimated MP with an av WHR 61%.

    I do run about 11 miles mid-week at around av hoped MP and will increase that to 13 miles. I do speed work too.

    I think if I ran the LSR any faster with a higher WHR I would not be able to train as well on the other training runs. I do however, speed up for the last couple of miles.

    I ran 60 miles last week, first time ever. I have built up over several weeks with easy weeks built in.

    I do find the pressure building up to the Marathon quite hard. I think it is more about concern for an injury. I take fairly regular massage, but of course this is not a guaranteed against an injury. I am not the most flexible person in the world, but I do take stretching out seriously. Especially considering my age.
  • Hi Ceal, I think 58% may be on the low side - generally 65-75 would be a good range, 65% would really be at the early stage of base training, increasing the pace gradually to 75% by Feb for an April Marathon. But having said that - if injury is a concern then it is probably better to remain on the 60-65% level for longer. I'm not sure that stretching makes that much difference in relation to long slow runs, you will seldom put your legs through their full range of movement and injury is more common from over use rather than ballistic movement, however, stretching gently after a long run does certainly help to regain muscle length and aid recovery. Massage is an excellent safe guard.
  • cealceal ✭✭✭
    Thanks Mike. I will give it a try, I think caution has prevented me before. I have a half mara this weekend but will give it a go the following weekend.
  • Many thanks Mike - I will let you know in a few weeks how it's shaping up.
  • Thanks Mike

    I was reluctant to give in to the walking thing but if thats what it takes!
  • Mike,
    I'm doing FLM -1st marathon and aiming for sub 4 based on other races/times & predictors. I am 34yr old female and have been running for 3 years. I'm following the RW Ultimate sub 4 plan which is fine so far. In fact surprised by the amount of runs at easy/ slow pace as used to doing most of my runs at threshold/ steady? I don't use a HR monitor but judge by comfort level. I have been feeling anxious about how slow I should run the LSR's but am trying to have faith in what I've read that the speed sessions, threshold runs etc. will give me the required pace on the day & that I need to avoid injury.
    I have entered Worthing 20 on 1st April as my longest run before the big day. My question is whether I should run this at MP (ie. 9 min/mile) as a gauge for FLM or is it too close to FLM therefore should be run at slower pace?
  • Hi Mike,

    I'm running London this year and have a few questions about weekly mileage.

    I must admit I tend to play other sports mainly football, so tend to do enough running to keep up my general levels without doing lots of weekly mileage.

    Generally I have been playing football 3 times a week for approx 50 mins a session. this is 5 a side so is quite quick and I've been counting this as speedwork. Is this wrong?

    Other than the football I do one steady run a week (approx 10K ish but varies) and my long slow run at the weekend which is up around 15-16m.

    I'm trying to cut back on the football as it can be quite hard on my legs, and replace this with runs to increase my weekly running mileage but I'm unsure on the best way to do this.

    I know from previous experience & injuries that rest days are very important for me, and 5 days a week is the most I can realistically do.

    Should I simply replace my football sessions with a variety of speedwork, and continue to slowly increase my long runs?
  • CA, I think you would probably get away with Worthing as it gives 3 weks, but if something goes wriong and you blow up there is a risk that you will still have it in your legs for FLM. I would go for a compromise, start slower than MP for 5 miles, just under for 5 miles then run the second half at MP so you have the positive experience of finishing well.
  • Thanks v.much Mike - really appreciate you giving up your time to help with advice. You are an inspiration.
  • Bink, I think you have the solution yourself. Priority would be to build the long runs and I would change one of the football sessions to a tempo run of up to 40 mins at MP and maybe one as another steady run of over 1 hr. The remaining football session keep in as a kind of short burst interval session but maybe avoid football in the lst month before FLM as a safeguard against impact injury.
  • Many thanks Mike - greatly appreciated.
    I do plan to give up the football within a couple of weeks if possible.
  • Hi Mike,

    As you know, I firmly believe in the high mileage approach to marathon training, but have been reaching a plataeu over the last few years.

    In Dec I ran a 50ml ultra, then had a 2 week break, partly to recover, partly to get over an Achilles niggle. I have been building back up, running an average of 70mpw (low for me) in Jan, and have also been doing 2 heavy weights sessions per week since November.

    Until this week I was running my hard runs - my XC races, speed sessions and a midweek 14ml-ish tempo run, - really strongly and my pace/HR was improving. The last 2 weeks have been up to 80mpw, but over the last 3 or 4 days I've started feeling tired and have slowed on my hard runs.

    I can't decide whether to keep the mileage up, and continue building to the weeks of up to 100mpw that I was doing last year, and hope that the tiredness will pass (on the hilly model) or drop back t0 70-75mpw for the rest of this build-up, and see if running harder and faster on more runs works better for me. What do you think ?
  • TmR, I think it might be an idea to see if the lower mileage/faster pace scheme works as I know you have been concerned that gradually you're losing pace. You have a lot of back ground miles from your recent years of high mileage so I don't think you'll suffer from loss of endurance. It's not my normal advice, which is to develop and maintain endurance, but if you have been feeling faster on lower mileage then why not stick with it (btw, 70 mpw isn't low mileage, just lower than you're used to).
  • Thanks, Mike. I'm keen to try a slightly different approach in case it works better, and I'm already convinced that the weights is making a difference. Now you've given me the confidence to try off lower mileage, and I'll see on what mileage I can keep feeling fresh.
  • Mike

    I was advised to drink an sports drink 1 hour before a long run and then down half a bottle 5 minutes before the off. However I read in book that you should only have these drinks during the race as to do so before actually reduces your energy levels as there is a sudden increase in blood sugar levels, but to compensate the body increases over large doses of insulin and that the net effect is to have lower blood sugar levels! What's your advise? I understand that Lucozade Sport is the drink given out during the marathon.

  • Rob, This is true, but it is down to timing. If you drink a sports drink an hour before exercise your insulin levels should recover to normal by the time you run. If you take a small amount immediately before you run it will not hit your blood before you start running so the insulin reaction will not be triggered. Once you start running your body has different energy needs and the sugars contained in the drink are grabbed to supply energy. Lucozade sport is the official drink on the marathon route and I would advise that you try various strategies in training before you try them in the race. You may also want to look at carrying energy gels and use them every 30mins or so during the race as they give a higher concentration of carbohydrates and will halp to keep glycogen levels topped up - they come in narrow tubes so can be tucked into your shorts. Again experiment before race day.
  • Hi Mike

    FLM 07 will be my first marathon and I have been following the RW sub 430 plan since christmas. I was doing well until a couple of weeks ago when I tore the adductor muscle in my groin. As a consequence the physio restricted me to max 4 mile runs. The longest run before this was 8 miles. My leg is getting better and I can start building up again but am I too late now to be ready for the big day?
  • Mike, I'm sufferening from some knee problems at the moment and am thinking about replacing a number of runs with the use of a cross training machine instead, to reduce impact on the joint. Do you think that this would be a suitable replacement, or is there really no replacement for putting the miles in?
  • f.b. Not too late, but you may need to re-assess your target time if you haven't managed to get back on track by mid-March. Priority should be to get back to where you should be with the longer runs as quickly as possible, even if it means initially doing them quite slowly and even occasionally walking to get the distance/time.
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