Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
ARC or UK:A
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
I hope nobody took the view I was having a dig at Malcolm, it was meant from the point of view that he may be able to pass it up the line of management and encourage them to deal with things 'up front'.
A lot of people seem to take the view that the sport is being split, trouble is unlike a lot of other 'sports' running can and is a lot more than a sport to a lot of people, it permeates into the fabric of day to day life. In some ways 'sport' doesn't even come into the equation, runners don't necessarily enter race's, they enter events, it's just that to others that event is a race. That's the beauty of it and that's where I believe UKA missed the point! Maybe ultimately UKA's approach would have the same net result, those disaffected by the 'new order' would do their own thing and eventually an ARC type organisation would come into being anyhow?
So in the end people will go with what suits their needs, we live in a free country, we can make choices. Somehow though, I think a lot of the fuss is down to UKA having an awful lot to lose.
Everybody in this disussion, here on this forum and in other circles have valid points, but it is obvious that there must be something seriously wrong even for ARC to have come into existance let alone the numbers of people who have affiliated ................ balls in UKA's court I think?
Hi
Let me make one thing clear, I do take any words that you put on this forum and pass them up the line. I do exactly the same when clubs, officials and atheltes put cticisms to me or even suggestions. On Sunday evening both Neils DeVos and Mike Summers got an email from me which was not about how well they were doing.
I do think that sometimes we think more about us in terms of "officials" than the actual runner be they elite or some one who wants to run just for the enjoyment.
I will be at Flitwick on Sunday supporting the Eastern Road Race and any one can come and talk to me.
I will respond further to some of the comments on this forum but I must go and coach a discus thrower (oneof the top juniors) and then go and see my first new grandson born on Tuseday morning .
Your views and comments are important for the development of the sport.
I often hear that the registration fee is seen as a tax and that we get nothing out of EA/UKA for our money. I also understand that the cost is over the top! I cannot and will not comment on the future cost of the licence because it has ever been discussed at council level nor has a potential figure been talked about.
But let us just say that it is a tax which is used to support athletics in its widest sense. What do the average runner get for the money!
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Subsidised coaching courses and coaches taught by UKA coaching tutors. If you are a coach you also get your crb check for nothing.
Officials to support your road races. The interesting thing about officials is that I have heard over the last few months that insurance companies do not require licenced officials -fact they do not! what they require is officials that understand and have some expertise in staging road races. I spent some time contacting insurance companies and talking to a Lloyds under writer on this issue. They all provided very similar answers - if an accident is caused because of an event such as a sporting race, it is the organisers responsibility to run that event in a proper manner and to have suitably qualified officials. When I questioned them for a more detailed answer on this issue, one told me "someone who is considered as a qualified person could be a person who has had a number of years working on the event, however the education of this person is not confirmed as having reached a certain standard, for instance was the education program considered to be of a standard suitable for someone to be considered qualified" They went on to say if there was an accident or mishap and the insurance was asked to recompense the injured party, they could consider quality of the official on duty. If the person did not have a suitable official qualification they could be asked to prove they were competent and the training they recieved was of a set quality standard. The onus would be on the official to prove they had achieved a standard which was acceptable to the insurance company and normally comparable to that of the NGB involved. One went as far as to say that the best evidence is an NGB approved licence.
Every school has been given the "Elevating Athletics" teachers manual.
Road racing events are now been supported within a number of regions. This is in a number of ways from coaching visits through to athlete forums
You have a voice on local regional EA councils
The national council working on your behalf addressing such problems as the police costs and road closures both regionally and nationally.
I could go on for ages but the overall benefits are huge, should you wish to take advantage of the NGB.
If UKA/EA stopped being the governing body for road racing then there would have to be one put into place and this would cost money to make it work, which would be reflected in increase membership costs.
We currently have one NGB you have the opportunity to make it work better and to make changes as you felt appropriate, how? get elected onto your local regional council, make sure they are represented at national level.
Malcolm You are not a lawyer so you should not be offering a legal opinion. The ARC insurance is placed with the Zurich Insurance Company who are first class insurers. They require that race officials are competent.
The running clubs already have their own governing body the Association of Running Clubs. There are many reasons why the running clubs are better off separated from UKA/EA. Some of them a) no compulsory levies to support track and field athletics b) no input of athlete data to a central registry c) no need to market an online club at their races d) no compulsory training for road race officials e) an ability to run their own club and their own races in their own way with minimal interference from the governing body f) having their own insurance programme for their own simple sport which is likely to be much cheaper in the long term g) no need for club officials to be bombarded with irrelevant literature concerning track and field athletics.
Malcolm England Athletics/UKAthletics interest in road running is due to money. They wish to extract money from road runners to support track and field athletics. Track and field athletics has been dying for the last 30 years. Those in charge of track and field athletics have disguised the decline of track and field athletics behind the growth of road running.
Malcolm You need to find a way to reinvigorate track and field athletics. You will not achieve this by waging a sterile war against the road running clubs
Michael I have never proffessed to be a lawyer, however due to a number of threads on other forums which was arguing about what was requred I went out and asked a number of insurance companies I agree with you you have said, the insurance companies have stated they must be competent. Your own organisation agrees that they should be competent to a set standard.
I have always agreed that road running clubs or any other sports clubs have the right to be run by whom they wish.
Lets be clear that road running is not a simple sport, to hold a road race is a very complicated process and we are seeing a reductionin the number of races being held, with the increase coming from charitable races held in parks and local estates. This is due in part to the demands being made by the police and local councils which we should be working together to persuade that this sport is an important feature of the sporting calender. Cycling is already being hit by police actions.
Chris, I do not know where you are but you should look at trying to get the track repaired, the council may have an obligation to repair it. I can be contacted via the England Athletic web site and I would be pleased to help you in some format to see what can be done.
UKA and EA are very interested in getting tracks repaired and put to good use and over the years has managed to get funding to upgrade tracks around the country. This benfits not only the track clubs but also local schools, and road running clubs a number of whom do make use of tracks for training.
There is an interesting article in Monday's Daily Telegraph.
Derek Mapp the veteran businessman who quit his dream job as Chairman of Sport England in November following a very public "difference of ideals" with James Purnell, the up-and-coming Labour minister who was then Secretary of State for Culture Media and Sport. While Mr Mapp wanted the Government to focus on developing grassroots sport, Mr Purnell was keen to concentrate on improving the performance of Britain's elite sports people. Mr Mapp says I think sport is for all. Participation was what Mr Purnell's predecessors wanted, but the new minister disagreed with me."
Almost all England Athletics funds are provided by Sport England and EA are compelled to follow Sport England policy. The choice for clubs is clear. If they think that sport is for all then they should affiliate to the Association of Running Clubs.
Michael
I think you'll find that Sport England are obsessed with participation levels and care little about participation standards...
On a completely different tack, I recently struugled through the London Marathon online ballot system for 2009. I was given a discount for being a member of an affiliated club, but not asked for my CL?! Must be an ARC permitted event...
I have come across my first entry form today (Glastonbury 10K) which asks for competiton license number. Unfortunately i do not have a number yet as my ea affiliation form is currently in a growing pile gathering dust whilst awaiting futher instructions!!
You may like an update on ARC's position for 2008/09. 104 clubs and associations with over 10500 members have so far paid their affiliations. 70 races have already been issued with Permits for events to be held after 1st April 2008. With more affiliations arriving with every post it seems certain that ARC will grow year on year.
Geri
I reckon if you write "Awaited from EA" where the number should go, the Race Organiser would accept a discounted fee entry. I would.
Michael
We've signed up with both EA & ARC again this year. Not sure we'll do so again next year, as such a process has questionable value in the long term.
I think ARC has a great deal of value to the running clubs. Without ARC the road runners would simply be milk cows to support track and field athletics. ARC is not active in Scotland. In Scotland runners pay £22 each to be members of Scottish Athletics and the unattached levy of £2 is all paid to Scottish Athletics.
With ARC the road runners have power over UKA and EA. Without ARC the road runners are completely powerless.
Michael I agree that having competing bodies will ensure that both sets of licence fees will remain competitive, even if we are effectively paying for two sets of Chief Execs and related infrastructure.
Also if we have 2 bodies 'arguing' with Central and Local Govt/Police over road races/events for road closure then our chances of success are limited. If we had one body acting on our behalf then there is a far greater chgance of success.
But 20 Minutes has raised a point that both ARC and UK:A should take notice of: that once the systems and confusion has cleared then running clubs are likely to go to one or the other and rarely both.
This could be made worse if running clubs pass on high registration/license fees to the runner. I for one enjoy running, if I had to pay £22 licence fee on top of club membership to enter 'some' races I probably wouldn't stay with a club. This is in spite of the fact that 2 years ago I ran about 15 races in the year, but in the last 18 months I have hardly trained let alone raced - I still haven't decided whether to renew my membership next year - but it's not due for a couple of months.
The average runner will go to their gym, or get a group going from work or similar and just run out on the road. Then everyone loses, the clubs, the officials and UK:A/ARC.
Wrinkly
Get out there & do some training!
Btw, your subscription renewal was due on 1 April...
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but at 1300 plus posts it was getting a bit much reading back!
I am currently a member of a EA affliated running club. We are part of a much bigger running club and we are almost their local branch for want of a better term. However the majority of us would like to become a club in our own right and have the ability to manage ourselves.
EA have made noises that the do not want us to create a new club and affiliate with them. The want us to be the 'road running section' of another club.
Surely this isn't promoting the sport? Why would the governing body want to put people off starting running clubs?
Mainly my question is would affiliation to the ARC be a better option?
farnie
That all sounds a bit odd, who at EA has been saying that to you - or is that being relayed to you by the "bigger club" that you are currently with?
Just form your club, affiliate to EA and/or ARC when you're ready. Then transfer your members from the current club to your new one.
If you want to email me I can send you the email address of someone very helpful at EA.
Ooppss sorry 20 minutes I thought subs were due in June. I'll pop up with subs later - just don't expect me to do any running!
Farnieflaps ARC would be delighted to welcome breakaways from UKA/England Athletics affiliated clubs. You have every right to manage your own affairs if you so wish. Please email the Secretary of ARC at the email address shown on the ARC website and he will give you every possible assistance to help you set up your new club.
20minutes the big club we are currently running with has no idea of our moves to become a club in its own right.
I have no wish to name names at EA, but here is an extract from an email.
"I spoke to XXXX at England Athletics yesterday about your possible
application for affiliation.
Rather than starting a new club EA would like you to consider becoming a road
running section of an existing club"
Please feel free to send me the info on the contact you have via the contact me section is probably easiest.
Michael, does affiliation with ARC mean you cannot get discounts on race entries (as they are EA affliated)
Farnieflaps
Members of clubs affiliated to ARC receive a £2 discount on races promoted by ARC member clubs. It is probable that they will not receive a £2 discount on races promoted by UKA member clubs and organisations. A full list of ARC promoted races is shown on the ARC website under races. ARC have already issued permits for 120 races during 2008 compared to 86 in 2007.
Farnie
That still makes no sense to me. Putting it in the context of that email; "you've considered becoming a road running section of an existing club, and decided it isn't in your (prospective) member's best interests".
As Michael says, you have every right to manage your own afairs. That includes forming a club, and affiliating (or not) to whichever body (or bodies) you wish to.
I'll email you the contact.
farnie
How are things going?
I'm starting to put 2 and 2 together (and have made 83 so far...)
We have put it to our club members and most of them have decided not to be part of our bigger group and to set out on our own. So it has gone to a second vote as to which road we go down either UKA/EA or ARC. TBH, after our talks with our regional (EA/Sports England/Manchester Leisure contact, I have made a strong case for the ARC.
We will see what happens when all the votes are in.
It will be Interesting to see how the vote goes...
FWIW - I reckon small clubs are better off with ARC.
Without going into the politics of one joining one association over the other (this forum covers it so well already), I would just like to add that we have shifted to the ARC seamlessly. As a small running club (with a massive heart and big ambitions!), we have found, as race organisers, and for the club itself, (the 'Hay Hotfooters'), no real disadvantage to abandoning the EA and a joy to join the ARC. There is far less admin than before - a huge bonus when busy, and a real feeling of joining a 'family' that is 'on our side'. It used to take hours to do the paperwork before, hours I personally resented spending!
I can only say as I find!
Cat