Overdone it?



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    These things happen Skinny...that America trip was always slightly dodgily placed, but it's your work so we can't complain, that's more important.

    You got the medium quality 14 in, which was by far the main session of the week, and you got that in, and it was so comfortable for you, you added an extra mile to the steady to MP bit image

    I don't have my spreadsheet at home, but for Monday, think 8miles easy to make up for the run you'll be missing.

    I'll have a look at the best bet for Wed and Sunday on Monday when I'm back to work...

  • Haha - mile 8 was supposed to be around 8.15 to 8.20 pace to move towards the steady pace but I went a bit too fast so it sneaked into the steady zone!

    Not sure work is more important than hitting 1.34 but family is so need to ensure they get enough time with me.

    8 miles Monday it is - cheers!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Right, skinny, this will be an odd week due to your work commitments/travel, therefore, only the 3 sessions you asked for, but the quality is tough, and will be your last running at above Half marathon pace before your big race. After Wednesday it'll be HMP and slower.


    Monday            8miles easy
    Wednesday      4.5mile progressive warm up,(2miles easy, 1mile steady, 1mile MP), strides (5x75metres), then 5x1mile at 10k pace (6.45-6.48), with 90second recovery in between each, cd 1mile.  (totals about 11miles)

    Sunday    15miles easy (don't even dream of pushing pace!)

    If you can manage to fit in a light very slow 3miler on Thursday that'd help too...

    I was torn on giving the full session, or 4 reps on Wednesday....so let's leave the full 5 in, but if you feel smashed after 4, feel free to stop then!


  • Hi coach - 5.30am here and still pitch black - as don't really know where I am going waiting for it to get light. Just to prove 1.34 more important than work just sent an email to my boss telling her that she can't pick me up at 7am as got to go for a run first!

    On Wednesday run do I do strides periodically while doing 4.5 mile warm up or all at once at end with a rest in between each one?

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    The strides are after the MP mile, so you get your 4miles in, then the strides.

    Normally when i do such a warm up, i'd have a stop to focus after the strides are done, before starting the hard section.

  • 8 mile easy done - 69 mins.

    Did it round a 0.6 mile loop round some waterfall gardens - not exactly seeing the world but its done and no traffic or roads to cross which was nice.

    As will almost certainly be pitch black when I start the Wednesday run will probably use same route (so about 18 times round!) - based on my boss's mail wanting to pick me up at 7am I don't trust that she'll let me out at 4pm one afternoon to go running.

    Wednesday looks like a real challenge - I like challenges!

    Let you know how I get on Wednesday.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    loops can be tough, but can be quite useful for knowing the lay out.

    At least you're only doing 1mile reps, so less than 1 1/2loops per rep.

    I often do a 6.5miles at MP session round a 0.9mile loop!

    Make sure you're safe if it's going to be dark in an unfamiliar place!

  • Done it! TOUGH!! I need to write down some of the pain I have just been through.

    Firstly it was too dark to see Garmin so rather than do 5 x 1mile reps I made it 4 x 1.2 and started and finished under a lamp - I do have a light on my Garmin but you can't be pushing that on and off all the time (it also gave me a halfway point time). I also gave myself an extra 10 secs recovery so 100secs as slightly longer effort.

    It was without doubt the hardest training session I have ever done. The loop was down the waterfall for first 0.3 miles then uphill for second 0.3 so last 0.3 of my 1.2 miles were uphill every time - these were done to an in my head chant of 'Ste - vie G, I hate you' until about last 0.1 mile where it just became, 'No, No, No'.

    When I had done first one I was certain I could not do any more and I felt the same after the second and third ones. After the fourth one I just punched the air and colapsed on the ground prompting another jogger to enquire if I was alright - I wasn't quite sure what answer to give him so I grunted which seemed to satisfy him.

    Anyhow full session below - the amended target times for the 1.2 mile instead of 1 mile session would become 8:06 - 8:10 (not allowing for any slowing down as slightly longer).

    9.02, 8.37 (2 miles easy) 7.49 (1 mile steady) 7.21 (1 mile MP) 7.54 (1 mile easy containing 5 strides) 8.05, 8.20, 8.10, 8.17 (4.8 miles of total hell with 100 sec recoveries), 11.17 (1.2 miles warm down).

    Total 11 miles.

    Thank you coach - that was a harder session than I would ever have done on my own - I am presuming I will get a lot of benefit from it in a couple of weeks.

  • I should add for clarity that the waterfall was like a stream running downhill with the odd small waterfall - I was not running up and down a cliff!

    Although towards the end it felt like it!!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Nice on Skinny, although you made my brain seize up after driving 360miles yesterday and just waking up today, trying to work out what the pace should have been for the 1.2mile reps ( there's a reason we use 1miles for the ease of calculations image)

    Sounds like you made a good re-adjustment in the circumstances, being abroad, being dark, and a loop with ups. So good work.

    Being able to lay down the equivalent of your 10k pace (our NEW 10k pace) will hold you in good stead, not only as a hard workout now, but for when we come back to beat your 10k time in future.

    However, you can give yourself a pat on the back now, as that's the fastest work you'll do before the big race day.

    If you can get a nice little 3miler in today, as slow as you can muster that'll help get rid of the stiffness in your legs, and tide you over for the weekend long run.

    PS no need for longer recoveries next time due to being longer reps, as the total mileage was still the same as the planned 5x1mile session (slightly shorter even). ie if you were doing 10x400, or 5x800s, you wouldn't get longer recoveries necessarily on the 800s just because double the distance, as the reps are reduced.

    But i'll let you off, as you made such a stirling effort to get this session in whilst away! image

  • 3 miles 27 mins - that's me done running in Denver.

    You've come to wrong place if you're looking for sympathy on the travel miles and just waking up!image

    22 hour door to door journey to get here on Sunday; total of 18 hours sleep in 4 nights while here (combination of 7 hour time adjustment and altitude); off to work in an hour and then at end of my day at work today get picked up to start my 22 hour journey home arriving Friday night at around 8pm. Based on past experience I will get max of 2 hours sleep on plane.

    So 6 days, 5 nights away - total travel 44 hours, total sleep 20 hours!image

    Looking forward to my own bed and a good couple of nights sleep before my 15 miles on Sunday which should be a breeze in comparison to this week.

    PS Your 360 mile journey led me to do a bit of hotel lurking on your thread - at least they won and congrats on the 5 mile PB - I must be inspiring you!!image

    Will report back Monday - cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Haha ta Skinny, my car took a mileage battering this week.

    Pleasure never comes without pain, and today, the dentist has had a right go at my mouth...

    enjoy the easy end to your week now.

  • Hi coach, bored at airport so just reading my own thread again - what a saddo I am!

    You know what you said about the recoveries being same for 4x1.2m and 5x1m because that would be like 10x400 or 5x800. Well I've been thinking about this because session nearly killed me as it was!

    Surely 5x800 would be run at a slower pace than 10x400 so hence same recovery.

    Whereas I tried to run 4x1.2 in same pace as 5x1m therefore a slightly longer recovery time? The fact I failed to run the required pace is beside the point! (I would add a winky smiley here but can't do it on my BB!)

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    It's a good question Skinny.

    But the logics is as follows.

    When I set you 400s and 800s, I'll designate it at a pace, say at 5k pace, or 10k pace.

    If the session was "run the rep as fast as you can", then of course, you wouldn't be able to keep the same pace for the longer distance. Or if you could, you'd need longer recoveries.

    However, as we're using your personal pacing zones, and we're looking to work you at a controlled but hard level, we keep the overall mileage similar, but the rep length and repeats will vary. Thus 10x400, and 5x800 being the same overall distance. Similarly you converted the 5x1mile, into 4x1.2miles which was fine, but no need to increase the recoveries as you're doing the same total mileage as the 5x1mile (ish...200metres less image)

    It challenges you to keep the pace for a longer distance, as come race day, you need to keep that pace for the whole distance.

    It also keeps things interesting, as you have loads of different distances, and a few different pace zones. If I set you the same session every week your motivation would naturally drop.

    That 10k session is quite a hard session, I find it so, and you're quite new into structured hard running.

    Also, that 10k pb has given you new pace zones to live up to, and we pitched your target zone high.

    It's something I'll monitor with each passing week.

    But the good news is that compared to that, half marathon pace will feel a right old doss image

  • 15miles done in 2 hours 10 mins - Garmin battery packed up almost straight in to run (thought I had left it charging overnight but obviously not) so spent most of run worrying I was going too fast - delighted to see I wasn't when got back - had to check distance in old fashioned way after finishing by driving route!

    Anyway that week is done - 2 hard training sessions and two weeks to go - fingers crossed for 2 weeks more injury and illness free.

    Had 26 hours sleep in 2 days since I got back!!

    Thanks for detailed recovery explanation above - would like to try that session again after the race but over a flatter mile not at altitude and on a proper night's sleep.

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Good work on the longest long run. It should give you the confidence to know you're strong in the final stages of the target half marathon.

    Are you able to do 5 runs this week? To the below framework?

    1. Mon                   5miles very easy
    2. Wed                   Total 10-11miles, details TBC
    3. Thur                  3miles very slow recovery run
    4. Fri                     6miles easy
    5. Sun                   14miles quality long run, 7.5miles easy to steady, 3m MP, 3m HMP (1/2mile cool down)

    Total 38-39miles, quality is a little on the high side for your mileage, but this is a one off, last big week before an ease down last week of tapering.

    I'll devise the Wednesday run tomorrow on checking the overall plan. Sunday I've had in mind for a while. Is a session that definitely helped me to pb the week after when I built up aggressively for a half.

    The 3miles Thursday is super slow...just eases your legs out after a probably hard Wed session.

  • Okay Coach - 5 runs it is - that Sunday run sounds longer than I would have expected week before race but I've trusted you this far so no going back now!

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Don't worry, when you smash that it's a perfect confidence booster for the next week.

    Then in the final week it's 3 runs, 2 easy, and 1 very light speedwork session, something like 3x1mile at HMP off 90secs recovery. Just to tide you over.

    However, as always I'll monitor off your feedback as the week progresses.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)
    1. Mon                   5miles very easy
    2. Wed                  3miles WU, 6miles MP, 1/2m cd
    3. Thur                  3miles very slow recovery run
    4. Sat                  14miles quality long run, 7.5miles easy to steady, 3m MP, 3m HMP (1/2mile cool down)
    5. Sun                  3mile recovery run

     Right, I've wrestled with myself about the session to give you Wednesday.

    In an ideal world it would have been a quality sesson involving HMP repeats, but I've decided that it's too much to suddenly throw 2 hard sessions into 1 week, especially when you're so close to a race day.

    I hope you're able to do the sunday session on the saturday instead as a one off? That'd give you a key extra day recovery, the Friday run would disappear, and instead Sunday would be a  3mile recovery.

    Another benefit is that you're not running 3 days in a row, and you have a nice structure of the 2 main runs of the week with a slow recovery run the next day.

    Next week would then have some light HMP reps on the Tuesday, and a couple of other low effort runs to tide you over until race day.


  • Okay coach - that works - although at moment there is no way my 5 miles tonight is going to be very easy - there's about a 50 mile gale and the rain is bouncing off the ground and has been for hours - its also flippin' cold! Think I might skip the post run cold bath and go for a hot shower instead!

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    the peril of living up north!

  • 5 miles easy done. 7 training runs to go - feedback after Weds run tomorrow.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • 10 miles done as follows:-

    3 miles easy (25:09 - a litle fast but only just)

    6 miles at MP pace (7:23,7:16,7:19,7:14,7:03,7:04) Last two miles a bit fast - found a few times on these paced runs that as the pace feels harder rather than drop the pace I push to keep it at same level and this seems to result in me going faster - better than me not being able to keep to the pace I suppose?

    1 mile 9 mins WD

    Starting to worry a bit now about my time target - first few miles at MP pace felt hard today and not sure how I will manage mentally if feels this hard on the day after 1 mile when I know there are still 12 to go - not like a 10k where you've nearly finished once you've started! Anyway I'm sure its just start of pre race nerves building up - 6 training runs, 11 days to go.

    Cheers, Skinny 

    PS Saturday's run - I presume it would be okay to go 7 miles,3,3,1 - just easier for timings.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Good run Skinny. You'll often find that it seems hard to keep the pace down on such sessions as you're at the peak of being warmed up and have momentum on your side.

    Taper week's always feel sluggish, as you're usually doing less mileage or intensity than you've got used to.

    Your 10k, and recent training suggests you'll hit your sub 1hr 35 target fine.

    As long as you haven't signed up to a monstrous hilly course and not told me, you'll be fine, don't worry.

    The beauty of a half marathon over a 10k, is that the pace is less intense. When you start the race, have your HMP in the back of your mind as a loose guide to see you through.

    However, if you're feeling good, by all means motor on!

    Fine on saturday, i'd slightly edited the MP down to 7.5 to keep it all to a 14, but your way above will do.

    Trick with that run is not to break into the steady pace too early in the first 7miles.

  • Its not monstrous hilly but I plan to explain profile and my race plan next week once know I'm injury free and done all my hard sessions. Over my worries now and feeling positive again - planning a 4,3,3,3,1 on Saturday but nice thing about those first 7 is I can play it by ear without failing the session - next feedback Saturday - Monday. Cheers, Skinny
  • 3 mile easy on Thursday - done.

    14 mile quality done today as follows:-

    8.15, 8.07, 8.26, 8.21 (4 miles easy), 7.45, 7.42, 7.39 (3 miles steady), 7.16, 7.08, 7.15 (3 miles MP), 6.57, 6.54, 7.00 (3 miles HMP) 1 mile WD.

    Was surprised when looked at total time when had completed the 13 miles and realised I was sub 1.39 for 13 miles. I believe had I ogne out hard today based on how I felt when I finished I could have beaten my PB today - however the race was not today but next week so need to coast in now and be good and fresh next Sunday morning.

    Looking at last 6 miles I actually ran them in an average of 7.05 so am definitely ready for this - bit of race day adrenaline and a few runners in front of me should enable me to stretch this out for 13 miles.

    4 training runs to go (none hard - YAY!) and 8 days. My youngest daughter has been ill for two days in bed with a fluey cold - I will not be happy if .....!!image

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Skinny ,youre in shape  to smash it lad.Pure and simple

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Good one Skinny. You smashed that so hard that your MP sections came out comfortably ahead of the 7.20-7.25 range, and even the HMP came easily on the 7.00-7.05 range.

    Therefore, you're definitely in sub 1hr 35 form as a minimum.

    I think you can afford to go off at 7:00-7:05 pace on sunday, and bank time as you go, knowing that sub 1hr 35 is 7:15 pace.

    With a 3mile recovery run already plotted for today, let's do the below for next week

    • M            OFF
    • Tu           8miles,  (3m easy to steady, 5x75m strides, 3x1mile @ HMP, off 2mins, with 0.5mile HARD at the end . 1m cool down.
    • We       3m recovery
    • Th        5miles easy
    • Fr         OFF
    • Sa       5miles easy with 4x75m strides
    • Su       TARGET HALF MARATHON (1mile warm up, 13.1mile race, 1m cd)

    Tuesday's is a lighter version of what you've done before. You do the 3x1mile at HMP off 2mins, and then after those you do your 1/2mile HARD. (ie just once)

    Stay away from that cold as best you can, and keep healthy and warm this week, and I look forward to next sunday mate.

  • Coach - update. In last half mile of my run on Sunday I got a pain in my left knee (always the left leg that is the problem) which felt like as I stretched forward it got locked in position (it didn't it just felt like that??). The pain continued through my mile WD although I was able to jog all way home without stopping. 

    Started worrying about it on Saturday night (although it wasn't hurting by then) and so scrapped the 3 mile run on Sunday and went for a 6 mile walk instead plus did plenty of stretching. No pain with walking and haven't run yet on it.

    We have agreed throughout this process that I am responsible for managing any niggles and you can only provide the training and advice - this has worked really well with my Achilles. However I am thinking about the Tuesday run and wondering that if my knee is an attritional injury is it sensible to do 8 miles - I will definitely do the two 5 mile sessions as if can't do these have no chance of doing 13 at full pace.

    I think I can look at this from two directions:-

    1) If I do it what do I gain?

    2) If I don't do it what will I lose?

    I think from a Risk and Rewards point of view these are two questions I could do with help from you on to help me decide whether or not to just rest up to Thursday or not.

    Finally from a more positive perspective!! Your post talks about me banking time against 7:15/miles. Back in 1982 (were you even born then?image) you didn't get your time in mins and secs only mins therefore unless I run 1:34:29 I can't be certain I have run a PB! However your suggestion is roughly what I am thinking too.

    Miles 2 to 4 of the race are probably the hardest (mile 1 flat) so provided I hit the 4 mile point at 29mins or below and feel okay I can start squeezing the pace upwards from there. Height gain from start to high point just before 4 mile mark is only 240 feet so its not exactly fell running anyway but a couple of the hills are enough to slow you down a little. After  that though it is a pretty fast course.

    I doubt you are interested but have attached a profile of the course I had to find just in case.


    Cheers, Skinny.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Skinny, definitely wise to ease off. Pain is always something to listen to.

    You can't really gain anything in the last week before a target race, but you can lose the hard work for sure.

    The light target pace reps session is a nice one for confidence, but you can do without it.

    As walking seems fine, your next step is a short easy paced run. I'd sub that in tomorrow instead of the reps.

    Then all being well try the light easy paced runs already plotted. Don't try and sub the reps session in later in the week as it'll be too close to race day.

    Hopefully that will see you through to the big race

    We'll leave tactics talk until just before the race...make sure you're right first.

    ps yes was just about born in 82!


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