Paris marathon 2013 here we go! A.W's Sub 3 attempt!



  • A.W - oh for the luxury of a 1:22:xx half time. Some of us have had to squeeze our sub 3 marathons from a 1:27:xx half time!!!

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭


    AW - A current half pb of 1.22 bodes really well. Have you got a half in the build up to Paris to check where you're at form wise? You might even find you end up running a 1.20ish or nipping under by then.

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Morning A.W. - good to ge the approval of Steve after your first effort session!!!image

    Hi One Gear - wow, that's a fantastic conversion.

  • Hi Clive, how are you doing? Has the work eased up any or are you still up against it? Not on Garmin Connect just yet, I'm still using my Suunto. It has something similar called movescount, I just have to remember to make the workout public!

    Thanks RRR, I think things will progressively get tougher and tougher for us both!

    Hi One Gear, my previous HM PB was 1.26. And off that could only manage 3.06 for the marathon, hopefully the extra speed will help get me under!

    I would love to be able to get a sub 1.20 half RS78, I have a 10k next week and Wokingham half in Feb. We'll get a good idea how things are going then!

    Got my easy 6 miles done, averaged about 7.55 m/m. Nice and comfortable run.
  • Hi DS2 - forgot to reply to your other question, sorry. Got the intervals done at the Emirates, each rep was 3 laps. Quite mentally draining, but I like the measured distance with no stopping!
  • Thanks for postig your times AW. The 1.22.xx half is certainly a good indicator of the speed endurance to set up  well for a sub 3 attempt. Do you work at the Emirates or something or have I missed someting?

  • No don't work there, but live quite close and its quite a nice track for speed sessions. Its hard work in London trying to find places for speed work (especially 2k reps) as you have to stop start so much.
  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Knight rider - Alex had mentioned doing laps there when we were at bootcamp and it stuck in my mind!

    A.W. I know what you mean but it is good for the mental approach. I did mine last week on a track on the local farm park with a mile (actually just under) loop. Lovely and uninterrupted but hard to break it up. One of the things I like about long intervals on a 400m track!

  • Will be watching will interest! Best of luck!

    @ One Gear - Whoa! Mr Consistent! If my conversions for ANY distance were that good I'd be super happy!!

  • so what schedula are you following A.W. 


  • I think the schedule is devised by Steve. You would need to check that with him. When we talked about the myasics schedule, it seemed it would be too light as I was running way more than the schedules peak weeks already.

  • Thanks DS2, dancing in spikes - I don't call myself one gear for nothing.

    DS2 - we talked about my training for London this year. So I thought I would just show the christmas week last year as a taster. It assumes that you have a good autumn base of 40+ miles per week at around an average 7:30 pace.

    Based on that, it is the "guaranteed" old man's sub 3 schedule:

    Week starting 25th Dec 2011 - 44.2 miles @ 7:33 pace (Asc 4707 ft Desc 4650 ft)

    Dec. 25th: Sun    5.87 miles ; 8:08 pace

                      Mon   16.07        ; 7:34

                      Wed    4.39         ; 7:26            6.33        @7:25

                      Thurs 6.29          ; 7:26

                       Fri      5.31          @7:13

    None of this would be run at marathon race pace - just engage the one gear and crank it out.



  • The schedule for Alex was initially a starting point of MyAsics but adding in miles based on Alex's normal training but also not going too far from normal RW sub-3 marathon schedules or what has worked for me in the last 35 years. So far I have only outlined the first four weeks as I prefer a certain amount of flexibility in terms of paces and mileage so things can be tweaked where necessary depending on form and fitness but I can give an additional rough outline for the whole period after christmas. Judging by last night's session, Alex is in a very good position a few weeks before we even get into 2013.

    Alex re the run in week 3 - yes slow is the wrong word but don't see a problem in you running 7:30s (to 7:45 if not totally flat) based on your current fitness.. Not sure I could do it yet though!

  • Hi Alex - congratulations on getting the place. You're certainly in good hands with Steve (hi Steve!). Your short distance PBs point to a much faster marathon than you have currently. Did something go wrong in your marathon? Did you blow up? Or start too slowly? What did your training look like for that one? 

    I'm hankering after a sub 3 myself this year. I'm borderline I'd say. PB is only 3.08.58 but on very little training I cranked out an MP effort hilly and windy HM in 1.29.03 a couple of weeks ago. I reckon if I can do that now I shouldn't have too much of an issue running twice the distance at the same pace with no hills, no wind, and a whole load of training behind me. My shorter distance PBs are way down on yours though. 

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Hi Steve, I will be following Alex closely and am very interested in his training having found out a fair bit about him at bootcamp. I now have a planned marathon on May 12 and my initial target was to go Sub 3:15. I seem to be going pretty well at the moment and aren't really sure what I'm capable of to be honest since this is the first time in many years I've entered a marathon campaign with such a solid base.

    I have looked at the RW schedules (ultimate plans) at both Sub 3 and Sub 3:15 and think I am probably capable of somewhere between the two. How would you think I should proceed? I'm definitely not as fast as Alex at the moment but making quick progress but with no other of the 5 aiming for Sub 3:15 I am unsure which one I would be best following.

    Having looked at the other plans I am further on on weekly mileage so Alex looks the best 'target'. Any thoughts would be appreciated (and thanks for the track session - I really got a lot from it and intend to run that 5k trial again early in the new year to see what progress I have made!).

    Hi A.W. - how are your legs today?

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    It will be interesting to follow your progress AW - good luck and enjoy the processimage

    Looks like you have plenty of speed and with the 10K and HM PBs, Sub 3 should be achievable.  I managed to squeeze under the magic 3 with similar PBs although that was before I decided to take a break - current ambition for VLM2013 is more like Sub 3:15image

    So what kind of training have you been doing over the last 2 months?  A 10 miles LSR looks a bit unambitious even for Week 1?

  • Legs are good thanks DS2, a little tired but nothing major.

    Hi CC2 - I think something has gone wrong in every marathon I've done in one way or another!image My PB effort of 3.06 the wheels came off at 24 miles, I was on course until then with my splits all nice and even, I just couldn't hang on. But back then I wasn't as quick over the shorter distances as I am now, HM was 1.26. So I am hoping the extra speed will help make marathon pace feel a lot easier for longer! The main difference I've been making over the last 6 months or so is to race a lot more, I think this is really helping, I'm also super focused on the task in hand so no skipping sessions!

    Its looking good for you based on the HM, like you say with a good few months more training behind you and on a flat course it should be possible.

  • Hey SBD - Last few months have been based around 2 quality sessions and a long run between 13-19 at the weekend, then a few recovery runs. Averaged about 50 miles a week. Good luck for VLM2013, are you going to be following a schedule?

  • DSanta2 - agree most schedules start quite light - probably as if it started straight out say at 60 miles a week, most runners wouldn't be able to start at that level and would struggle those early weeks. Additionally, too many miles at high mileage could potentially get you fitter but also might increase injury, so I don't see a problem in starting quite light in order to build up for a peak in April rather than do too much too soon and be in better shape in March and overtired in April.

    As your race is in May, you could follow Alex's schedule a month behind. What sort of half-marathon shape are you in?

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    So is your marathon PB of 3:06 from VLM2012 AW?

    I plan to follow the P&D 55-70 schedule - I've used used this for the 3 marathons I've trained for (3:05, 2:58 & DNS) and it seems to work reasonably well for me.  So, this being Week 1 of the 18 Week schedule, there's very little speedwork but lots of miles (11m yesterday and hopefully 14m on Sunday) and some tempo work.

  • My marathon PB was actually set back in 2008, so definitely in need of some revision!!
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭

     A.W - Well done on getting the place and best of luck with achieving your goal.  You certainly appear to already be in a good place for a sub 3 attempt based on your shorter distance times and with the consistency of more training and Steve's mentoring you'll be even further along come Paris.  Have you got any build up races do do along the way?

    Steve - a question for you about your own running.  What do you put your competitive longevity down to and how do you always manage to hit the marathon in shape to run well?  After 10-12 years of competitive running both my husband and I find it hard to be fresh for many runs these days.  We are both extremely dedicated, but find peaking for a marathon quite difficult when we train all year round for all races.

  • Thanks Hilly, I have a couple of half marathons planned, the first being Wokingham a 10k just after xmas and a 20 miler. Hopefully should have a good idea of the direction I'm heading after Wokingham in Feb.

    6 miles done in 44 mins today with the middle two at 6.33 and 6.29. Didn't really feel any effort to hold that pace, nice and comfortable. I thought it might be a little harder as I felt a quite tired today before the run, but once I got going was fine.

    Rest day planned for tomorrow and then Cambridge parkrun on Saturday. Steve, what should be my goal for the parkrun? Should I run it as hard as possible or at a set intensity?

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Steve - thanks for responding. I was thinking that I would follow Alex's plan. I really have the best part of 5 weeks before I would need to embark on it and think at that time I would be in about 1:33 shape for a HM(I'm probably in about 1:35 shape at the moment. I'm not expecting to get near Sub 3 so think 16 weeks from there should give me every chance of running well within 3:15.

    I shall pay very close attention to Alex's sessions. I am currently running 40-45 miles a week so think I'll handle the workload ok but probably not at the pace of Alex.

    A.W. - nice going today. How did you find the 2 mile effort?

  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭

    A.W - nice pace in the middle of your 6 miles today!  Was the middle 2 at that pace part of the daily training plan or did you just run to feel?  Is every run done within a given pace bracket or are the sessions just done to pace?  I tend to do a lot of my early marathon runs to effort rather than specific pace as I find it hard to hit paces especially in the early stages of marathon training.

    I've never done Wokingham, but I believe it's fast?  I'm a big fan of parkruns, again not done Cambridge yet, but have done 69 parkruns at 35 different eventsimage

  • Hilly

    for me the last couple of years haven't been so great with injuries and last year was a struggle to run 2:59 having done very little running through Jan and Feb. I do race roughly once a week and have done so for 40 plus years, but I probably only really target a race seriously about once a month. I try and avoid too many longer races now and limit myself to one marathon a year and build up to it reasonably carefully with a definite half-marathon target in the build up. I used to do that so even if the marathon didn't go 100% as planned (more variables can go wrong there) then at least I would get a decent half-marathon out of all the training.

  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the reply Steve.  40 plus years is very inpressive!  Avoiding longer races I think I've come to agree with.  I once did 4 x 20 mile races on consecutive weekends and needless to say left my marathon out there!    I tend to want to race every distance out there and now in my 40s realise I just can't do it anymore.  It's tough when you have the racing mind of a 20 year old, but the body and recovery rate of an older runner lolimage

    Anyhow I look forward to reading this thread and seeing how A,W progresses towards his goal!  I'm sure if anybody you will be able to support his target!

  • Hey Alex. I hope the first week of your training is going well. Do you have any races planned next year before the race?

  • DS2 - Found the middle miles pretty comfortable, didn't feel like I was working to keep the pace.

    Hilly - Yes the middle two were part of today's schedule, although they were a little bit quicker - Steve had scheduled for 6.45 for those miles. Most of the runs in the plan have a pace guide, except easy/recovery runs. I've heard Wokingham is fast, I hope so!!

    Ady - Have 4 races actually booked, a 10k on the 27th Dec, a half mara on 10th Feb, a 20 miler and another half in March. I might drop the second half as it falls quite close to Paris - booked it before I knew! May book something in for Jan at some point too. How about you?

  • AW  - Good luck with your quest.

    As others have said, with a 1:22 under your belt and Steve as your coach you've got every chance to achieve the target.

    Looking forward to following this...


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