P + D training for VLM 2013



  • LOL you don't know what your missingimage
  • Caz, we joined at Tower Bridge, did the Canary Wharf section (minus the 3 miles loop around Isle of Dogs) and finished on Birdcage Walk. The Mall was too busy so headed home to Clapham after that. For well deserved burgers.

  • Great Runs by everyone. The training is really ramping up in here, which is great to see. We are nearly into the business end of things now aren't we?!

    Really interesting to see the P.B's and stats as well yesterday.  Its always fasicnating to see how people compare with short pace vs endurance. 15W  if I remember from the post you are clearly an endurance monster. NP likewise - and seriously impressive times (esp for age range - meant in the nicest possible way). I can only dream of posting times like that when I get to that age. And as for pace it looks like Craig has got it in spades. 17.30 for a 5k is superb and puts you well above a 3 hour marathon. If you get the endurance to go with that pace then my money's on you for the fastest time. I'm sure Al runs, 15W, Mark, NP and SR will have something to say about that though! 

    Just got back from 22 of the wettest most miserable miles of my life. Delayed to this afternoon due to a hangover (I hardly even drank which isnt fair). Took 2h 44 mins (Ave 7.29) and overall felt ok. Legs were really painful at the start after yesterdays race, but they eased up later on thankfully. I've seriously had enough of this rain though - I'd rather the snow was back.


  • Well done on the long runs everyone!!  

    I've not ran since Friday's LT session. image

    I haven't really enjoyed my last few runs because of a few niggles and so decided to have a few days off just to be safe.

    I'm telling myself that it's the sensible thing to have done and that I'm way ahead of schedule anyway (Edinburgh in May is my main target) but I'm still a bit down.

  • Definately the right thing to do Ziggy. And also the hardest thing to do. So well done on being so disciplined. Just stick some corework in and it won't be wasted time and you'll be back fresh and strong.

    Great PB Surrey Runner too on the half marathon. Impressive with fatigued legs. definately woth another couple of minutes off with a rest - and the conditions. Great stuff.

  • NP - cracking long run AGAIN.  Do you ever have a bad run?!  I agree with Chris, you and 15W are endurance kings, you just thrive off those big runs. I love running long though, I think it is something you either love or hate.  I cannot imagine NOT marathon training for the rest of my running life.  Whereas some people only do one or two in a lifetime and then retire from them, I just love the distance.  Does anyone else feel like that about it?

    NN - hope you managed to get your 11 in ok.  

    Literatin - again, an amazing run. You are totally back in the game. 

    Surrey Runner - well done on PB, it is always hard whilst marathon training to know whether you would do even better if you were just concentrating on HM distance as we don't really taper for them. 

    Ziggy, how many weeks into it are you?  My friend started quite early on her P&D and picked up couple of niggles, she has dropped the recovery run and took a few days off and seems to be back on track.  I am sailing along quite happy with 4 runs a week and I understand the reasons why the recovery run works but if doing that extra run a week tips me into injury zone, I would rather not do it.  Is this something which could work for you? 

    Al and Caz, nice for you to be able to do some of the course - great runs too.  

    Craig - here is link to enter Salford 10k...  

    Salford 10k


  • I'd agree with Chris think you've done right thing Ziggy.

    I've decided to have an extra day off from running today too, I can still feel my calf/Achilles a bit so I've decided to be extra cautious. It's the first session I've missed this year, it's been hard to rest but I hope missing the odd session won't hurt too much.
  • Cheers Helen I will have a look.  

    Have to say I enjoyed week 1 on P&D.  56 miles and feel great. Looking forward to next week, even though I will have to get up early to get my runs in due to shift in work I am on.  And Wrexham Half on Sunday, going to give it a right good shot, totally give it my all.

  • Thanks for the reassurance everyone.

    Heow, I started P&D 18 weeks ahead of London so today is the end of week 11.

    However I've already decided to treat London as part of my training for Edinburgh which is 5 weeks later. I've already missed a few recovery runs but I think my main problem has been running too many miles too fast.

    I think I'll reduce the intensity and mileage until my (over) enthusiasm returns. It's a long time until Edinburgh so there's no need to worry.


  • Mix too much speed with distance and it is a recipe for disaster Ziggy.  Hence why P&D are regimental re running the majority of their runs slow as the majority of them are in double figures! We totally need to respect the miles we do, we all have busy lives and it is hard work! I don't think I have ever ran so many 9m/m in my life, my pace ego used to never want me to go near the 9 mark. But I can feel the benefits of it, my legs are fresh and I feel fitter than ever.  Definitely cut back the pace - like we have all mentioned on here, HRM good for that. Do you have one?  

    What I found interesting the other day on the Marathon Talk podcast with Jocelyn Payne (the 23 year old who did the 2:53 marathon), was that she did a 24 miler and she ran first 16 miles at 9m/m which is over 2 and a half minutes slower than her MRP before ramping up to final 8 at MRP. 9m/m is so slow to a 2:53 marathon runner!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Chris - that's an impressive long run with tired legs. You must be fairly confident of going sub 3 now - I reckon you'll be closer to 2.50 the way you're going.

    Ziggy - wise to rest up to prevent niggles turning worse, especially if Edinburgh is the main event.

    I've had a fairly lazy afternoon on the couch with a mixture of rugby and wii...and lots of food.

  • To be honest 3.00 will remain the target I think. As its the first one I really don't want to aim to high and crash and burn. I still think 3 will be a srtuggle, but who knows. Besides, there has got be something to go back for and try and improve on.

    Rugby and food sounds perfect. I think its going to be an early night for me. Legs are definately feeling it now!

  • Thanks Heow. In answer to your earlier post I think I'll be one of the ones that only runs a small amount of marathons. Its not that I dont enjoy the long runs, but I think I prefer the variety of training for shorter distances. And I do struggle to motivate myself to do the really long training runs. For me I love the half marathon and think its the perfect trade off between speed and endurance. So I'll be looking forward to focusing on a few of them afterwards. But I've got a feeling that the magic of the marathon might lure be back after I've finished this one.

  • Oh yes, the magic of the marathon will definitely lure you back because I think it is the one race we can make the most improvement on over time, the shorter distances become harder and harder to crack!  I have never had any interest in tackling 5 or 10k even though, I think I would could a hell of a lot better than I currently do, if I gave them a good shot. 

  • HeOw I love the fact that at 51 having done 9 marathons over the past number of years I can still aim for a PB below 2:58 if everything on the day is ok and I get to the start line having done the training. Last year exactly a week before London I had a fire call on getting back to the Station I was limping which turned out to be a stress fracture it was some 7 or 8 weeks before I could jog on it. I love building up the miles and the feeling after 3 or 4 20 mile runs they start to become easier. I also like the fact that the young guns find more than 20 miles difficult as endurance will improve with age for the club runner. image
  • I shall also be 51 by the time VLM comes round..have you noticed that runners are always proud of their advancing years rather than lie about our age. its like we are saying..hey look what I can still do, better than most 30 year olds ( thats ordinary 30 year olds not the ones on here lol )

    I did 20 on Friday leaving my 11 with 6 LT till  tonight, I woke up feeling pretty groggy after a pooh sleep today and  I was going to do just an easy 11..but I thought what the hell get on with it..it does take a mile or so for my legs to get the message though maybe my new light weight kinvaras that I am going to buy tomorrow will help with these tempo runs..

    I did 2.5 miles easy then.

    aiming for 7.40s

    7.50...7.43..7.37..7.40..7.39..7.38.. then 2.5 easy
    AVE HR 81.7%

  • ...careful what you say about 30-year-olds NN. Great run, though, especially when you really didn't want to!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    What about those of us still in their twenties?
  • NP not sure what you meant when you asked if I was reducing the miles or keeping them the same ? this coming week for me will be slightly reduced overall mileage as a mini taper from Wed as I am ' racing ' a 10 miler next Sunday, I am going to do the club track session tonight, I will run 1.5 -2 miles there do the session which will be 5/6 1k reps then 1.5 -2 miles after that's the plan if I sleep well anyway, then tomorrow the double recovery runs, 15 long run on Wed, the Thurs, Fri and Sat easy 4-6 each day, which will result in a 53 mile week...which is the lowest for a few weeks, just done 2 x 70 mile plus weeks so I may even treat myself to a rest day, image 

  • Great run NN, and you deserve the rest.

    The snow has returned here image  I'll have to see what it's like underfoot before I decide what pace I'm going to run today.  I've felt a bit of a niggle in my left calf, so I'd better err on the side of caution.

    Chris J77 wrote (see)

    I can only dream of posting times like that when I get to that age.  

    Me too image


  • Morning All

    Completed a (very) wet & cold 20 yesterday in 2:31 - last 8 miles were really tough as I was really cold & just couldn't keep warm, still managed to keep going though which must be good on the mental toughness front!

    Great running from everybody btw - just think at the end of this week we'll all be half way through the schedule already!! Will be doing the prescribed 7 miler later - have a good run today everybody

  • NN great running again, what I was getting at is the miles come down a bit as the polish/speed sessions are added image

    DP4 well done for sticking at it not always easy in the rain and the cold.

    Ten go long if snow is on the ground.
  • Hope everyone's training is going well! Horrible wet, cold, hilly 20 miles yesterday for me. Vile day!
  • Night Nurse wrote (see)

    I shall also be 51 by the time VLM comes round..have you noticed that runners are always proud of their advancing years rather than lie about our age. its like we are saying..hey look what I can still do, better than most 30 year olds ( thats ordinary 30 year olds not the ones on here lol )

    I'm 59 and proud of it, though it would also be fun to rerun the last 30 yearsimage

    20miles for me Saturday,will post again later when I have had some time to read and digest lots of running and posts on here.

  • Hmm in summary over the weekend it seems that Markf knocked out a 23, 22 miles from Mark, 15W, AR, Chris, NP with 20 for me, Ten, Mennania, Lit, Gocaz, Jed, and DP.  HeOw I'm sure there must be one somewhere for you but I couldn't find it amongst the cervix chatterimage. Oh and great HM pb from SR at Wokingham

    Looks like the day to run long was Saturday if you could with awful weather on Sunday, followed by another covering of snow for us here today in East Anglia.

    I ran on Saturday and apart from being a cold day it was dry with little wind so pretty ideal.  First 5 miles at an average of 9.10, 12 at an average of 8.30 by which time I was back on flat roads and trail and pushed a bit harder with a 8.09, 7.40 and back to 8.31 and 2.08 for final little bit, 20.25 miles in 2.54.32, average 8.34

    Strange week the next one on the upto 55 miles programme, 3 x 6 miles @ recovery one with strides, 14 miles MSR,  and a 16 miler with 12 at MP.  The following week is the recovery week!  

  • Morning all

    Excellent long runs by all over the weekend and well done to SR on the shiny new PB.

    I did 20 miles yesterday in dry but windy conditions.  I never find long runs particularly comfortable and yesterday was no different. However, completed 20 miles in 3:11 with average pace 9:34 so happy. For once the wind was behind me all the way home image

    JF50 - I was thinking a similar thing about this week, but I must say I'mm looking forward to it.

  • Busy thread, Have to go back 5 pages to find my last post from Saturday lunch! A lot of hard graft going in and it is starting to show with tune up race PBs!

    6 mile recovery for me as soon as I can shake the cnba monkey off my back. Off with the kids this week so maybe a swim after too. Was planning on rearranging the schedule to fit in Wrexham but to be honest it looks like all I have to do is the can the second MLR and its pretty much doneimage.

  • Mennania: damn right ... this fred moves superfast! I think I can no longer keep up with this image

    Sorry to hear about the niggles, Ziggy. A few rest days should sort you out.

    So much great running going on this weekend! Alas, not by me image. After my 14 miler on Saturday (when I felt great) things started to deteriorate overnight and yesterday I felt too rough to attempt anything. There's a nasty chest infection making the rounds and what with asthma and a long history of respiratory problems I decided I'd rather be safe than sorry so I canned my planned long run with MP.

    Luckily I started my plan a week early to allow for colds/coughs/niggles so no real harm done. Feeling better today image and I think I will resume proper training tomorrow.

    HeOw wrote (see)

    chickadee - was that your first marathon and did you do sub 55 plan?


    HeOw: I did the 55-70 plan and it was my 3rd "real" marathon. I did a few inbetween but they were done on very little training and were more a fun thing with mates and no serious attempt to get a PB).

  • Nice summary JF50 - you can be the thread journalist image  Well done on the 20m run, and Fiona too.  Is this the most hardcore thread? image  I'm intrigued what you mean by the "strange" week - what do you think is strange about it?  

    NP - I saw your comment about going longer in the snow.  I couldn't get back late, otherwise I might have gone for it.

    Although I was initially disappointed with the arrival of yet more ankle-deep snow, it was while walking the kids to school I thought, "You know what?  Today is a great day for a run!".  So I decided to head out and enjoy the run doing whatever pace I felt like.

    My PMP is 9:09; HMP 8:46; and LT (15k pace) 8:16.  The following were the splits for today's run:

    10:15/9:29/8:41/8:39/8:36/8:58/9:10/9:15 avg. 9:05

    So I guess you could call it a marathon pace run with LT bursts image  Considering the conditions, it was harder than a normal MP run.

    And I was right.  It was a great day to run!

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