P + D training for VLM 2013



  • I missed an 18 miler with 8 at MRP Literatin when I was ill. I replaced my 16 with a 20 with 10 at MRP but I'm aiming to do 5 x 20/22 milers as the sub 55 is low on them.

    Craig - you will see how great a runner you could be after this plan as I reckon working on your aerobic base rather than killing every session like you used to will be the making of you. There's a talented runner already in you but I think there's a pretty brilliant one waiting to come out. I think a lot of runners are frightened to run easy but they aren't training to the best of their advantage. I never did, too ego driven to run slower than I should, obsessed with stats looking good! It makes you a one pace pony and leads to exhaustion and injury and come race day, nothing can be pulled out. I read last night that even a 2 mile race needs 92% aerobic fitness and only 8% anaerobic so unless you're training for an 100m race, at least 50% (it's actually a lot more!) should ran very easy. Night Nurse stands out to me as someone who trains spot on and is someone I am learning buckets from. If I don't smash my HM PB Sunday, I know I need to drop my easy pace down a notch.
  • Obviously everyone on here trains bloody brilliantly, I mean that NN trains very efficiently using HRM as her guide, not pace.
  • Jeeeeepers - this thread is moving faster than Mo Farah at the Olympics!!

    HeOw wrote (see)

    Chickadee - the right decision and I hope you are ok.  Your times are very inspiring to me by the way, brilliant. 

    Chris - yes, do the 10 miler and bloody go nail it mate.  Could you not do the 15 miles with MRP mid week and swap the LT run for the 10 miler?  

    Good running Ten - are you feeling back on form?  

    Mark - I hear you, I too did my long runs 6 days apart and guess what, I seem to have picked up a niggle too.  The lower part of arch of foot (nearer to toes than heel) has been a bit sore since Friday (no idea what it is).  I have done 7 miles with strides yesterday and easyish 8 miles tonight (in new Mizuno trainers) and it is a bit niggly tonight, just tender when I press it. May have to bench myself for couple of days.  In 10 years of running and 18 months of marathon training on and off, I haven't had anything like this before. I do believe the trainers I were running in have caused it as they had had their full innings and were on their way out.  Anyone any ideas what it is?


    Thanks, HeOw. I keep telling people if I can go sub 3:30, anyone can image. Hope your niggle buggers off image. I tend to ignore foot niggles and usually they go away on their own.

    craigtdavies wrote (see)
    Morning, I did 12 today progressively getting faster and finishing around 7:20 pace, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how I should train this week. I have 11 tomorrow, 5 recovery then 9 mile LT run on Friday. I am supposed to have 17 on Sunday but am running a half marathon, should I just continue as normal and drop the 4 miles or juggle stuff around a little. Any ideas would help.

    Wot Fiona said, craig - stick some miles on either end (warm up and cool down).

    Ziggy: wowzer, some bloody brilliant hardcore running!

    Lit: I'd go for the 21 miler too. Although I find MP in 20+ runs priddy hard. Try and hold back and do those early miles even slower than you normally would (think of that marathon talk interviewee girl that ran 2:53 - she did the slow part of her MP run at 9mm).

  • I seem to have mostly recovered from my fatigue from the weekend run, and my shoulders and back feel a bit less stiff, although this desk job doesn't do me any favours I could stretch more than I do.

    My week looks like this:

    Today - 7mi recovery w 8x strides

    Wed - 12mi Medium Long run (9:55 - 10:50 pace)

    Thur - rest

    Fri - 10mi LT (2mi warmup, 6mi @ ~8:25, 2mi cooldown)

    Sat - 5mi recovery jog

    Sun - 20mile long run (9:55 - 10:50 pace)

    I've booked a sports massage for Monday lunchtime to see if that helps at all with recovery from the 20mile run.

  • Off home soon to do my 6 miles recovery - it looks like rain. I hope it holds off. image

  • Agent Ginger - I think that some of my niggles are due to long hours at my desk. I've recently started to try to stretch my hips and hamstrings without anyone at work noticing. But I just think that they think I'm weird.

  • MarkfMarkf ✭✭✭

    Lit I'd be careful with injury of a 20+ with MP at this stage. You've already proved speed over shorter distances so maybe just go long this week and/or throw a few MP miles into one of the mlr's. Plenty of time to still get the MP miles in during March.

    Been for sports massage after work, and for once not painful image

  • Markf, thanks -- I honestly think I'm over the injury (or rather headed it off before it became one) but I also have to remind myself that I've never actually run further than 20 miles before! I'll see how the rest of the week goes. But my sports massage yesterday wasn't painful either, so I think that's a good sign!

  • Lit go long 21 miles but do the MP at the half way point, make sure you fuel well before and during.

    Second run 6 miles with 4x half miles at 5:53 pace.
  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭

    Lit, I would agree with Markf that you should be cautious about putting in any MP, and even more so if you have never run that distance before!

  • MarkfMarkf ✭✭✭

    Lit sorry I didn't explain well, meant that even with no injury I would always put mp miles into long runs of less than 20 miles and when doing 20+ I just keep it slow but agree with NP if doing the mp miles do them in the middle for now.

    15West wrote (see) Am home alone with the kid this week...so have to fit it round her a bit too. Oh, and it's pancake day apparently.

    15W you busy on tossing duties then if you on your own this week image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    yeah - Literatin - might be better to run progressively quicker in last 6 miles, not necessarily reaching MP...but getting to within 10 to 30 secs/mi slower than it. Anyway - see how you are during the run, but pushing it for last few miles is always a tough but worthwhile workout.

    Yes, Markf - lots of tossing from me tonight.

  • oh okay, that makes sense. I often do run quicker at the end of a long run anyway, but usually closer to the end. Anyway, I think I'll definitely do the long run and then decide about the MP miles on the day (whether to do them and how many).

  • Agree Literatin re not caning the MRP if you are just back from "injury" - you have weeks left to do the MRP - like the book says - start 20% slower and gradually build up to 10% slower than race pace? 

    Been to Podiatrist - my err "niggle" is a cyst on the bottom of my foot.  So you can all breathe, I am still going to survive to run another day and bug the shit out of you all.  I also have excellent foot alignment! image Which helps you stay uninjured said bloke who stared at my feet for a long time. Painted the toenails special too. Although I can imagine he has seen some sights... 


  • HeOw, glad to hear the food will be okay. But I'm not sure I've got enough toenail to paint on some toes! What do they do about the cyst?

    And yes, I have been following the book to the letter on my long runs so far: 20% slower, then 10%! With only a couple of faster miles because I can't help myself. I've been trying to behave, though, and did my recovery run today really slowly (except the strides), and then felt insanely bouncy and energetic all day. What fun for all my colleagues.

  • I bet your recovery pace is faster than my MRP...  

    Cyst will go of it's own accord Literatin - running may just make it a bit more sore but hey ho!  I would rather have a sore boil on me foot than not run! 

  • Heow, glad its just a cyst (even though that sounds painful), but at least nothing long term thankfully.

    Went for my 7 mile recovery run tonight (I'm not doubling up) and ended up with 7 miles at 7 min pace and the last half mile at 5.30 pace. Not to self, do not go for a recovery run with a very good runner from your club who you know you will always push the pace with!

    Still it actually felt pretty for most of the way around and we were chatting away and catching up.Its the first run I have done all programme with somebody else and he is very good company so it was a nice change from the norm. Right up until we decided to race each other for the last half mile. You can't take the boy out of the man! He bloody beat me as well!

    Tomorrows 15 is going to be at a very sedate pace.

  • CHRISSSS!!!  Be bloody careful! 

  • Ha! Even I don't do my recovery runs that fast!

  • Not had time for a proper read, only wanted to see how Heow got on at the pods will catch up with the rest tomorrow.

    Great news H..I am really chuffed and relieved for you, I cant imagine what it would feel like for you to have to abandon training again..and I tell you what it would take ore than a bit of nail polish to make my feet look pretty !!

    2 x recovery runs done here today..

    Twatty Pilate's and 15 MLR  tomorrow ..

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Chris, re the 10 mile race, I think you should give it your all and, as Night Nurse prescribes, not worry about making up extra miles for the sake of it. IMO race days should be about a quality effort rather than quantity of miles. And you could always have a recovery run later if feeling up to it.
  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Sorry, don't know why on earth that post has popped up again!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Morning all....15mi MLR for me today. We have heavy snow forecast also - so could be interesting. Supposed to warm up a bit everywhere from tomorrow.

  • Go Caz wrote (see)
    Sorry, don't know why on earth that post has popped up again !
    Because it makes sense and men always need telling more than once !!
  • Good news on the foot front HeOw.

    Chris - naughty naughty.

    Snowing quite heavy here - hope the forecast rain turns up later. Either a 3m recovery run later or a day off. Feeling a little fatigued still so gonna take it easy before sunday.

  • Men I too am really tired, I am easing back after today till Sunday no hope of a pb its too hilly but I would like to better last years time 

    very light on off rain rain here so good conditions for me

  • NN - For once I am listening to my body image

    I enjoy the schedules as a framework and a guide, but life and ageing bones can get in the way, so I dont fret on them too much. In fact I would say I that whilst I have completed  90-95% of the sessions I think that less than 10% have been on the right day or in the right order. Maybe I am losing a little training efficiency but in terms of lifestyle I think I am gaining a lot. To stick to a schedule verbatum would be impossible for me.

  • Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Not had time for a proper read, only wanted to see how Heow got on at the pods will catch up with the rest tomorrow.

    Great news H..I am really chuffed and relieved for you, I cant imagine what it would feel like for you to have to abandon training again..and I tell you what it would take ore than a bit of nail polish to make my feet look pretty !!

    2 x recovery runs done here today..

    Twatty Pilate's and 15 MLR  tomorrow ..

    Thanks NN!  Yes I am relieved, think I would have thrown the towel in had it been an injury as don't seem to have got fully into the training quite yet.  

    Mennania thanks also re foot.  I think I have missed a few recovery runs and when the snow was really bad, I did hilly trail runs instead of the MLR that were my longer runs at the time.  I still  managed to do majority of it even whilst ill. The plan is ace to be guided by but if I started to feel exhausted, it wouldn't be fair to my husband nor my kids.  So, you have to take from it what we can and realise we ain't Olympic athletes whose livelihoods depend on this!  Nothing worse than feeling pressure - after all, it is just a hobby. 

    10 miles for me today - going to do it very slow and easy as will be hillyish.  Then rest of the week will do the 2 x recovery runs left in the plan before Wrexham Half on Sunday.  


  • Out by 5.25am this morning for my 14mile medium long run.  Light enough to run the final 5 miles on the railway walk.  First 5 miles averaging 9.18, last 9 miles 8.37.  It's quite an undulating run so real mix of ups and downs and variable mile paces.  Legs did feel a bit tired the last few miles, I guess the cumulative effect over the last couple of weeks of a heavier schedule, for me anyway. Splits here if you want to look http://connect.garmin.com/splits/272786578  Probably best not look HeOw, way too many stats.

    Question for HeOw and any thoughts generally.  You say you will be adding in a couple more 20 milers to the upto 55 miles schedule to give you 5 x 20.  Do you think it will be counterproductive for the other training runs on those weeks you go off script?  I am tempted but with time running down it does mean running some of them on consecutive weekends and just remembering some early thoughts on here of sticking to the programme, P&D know best.

  • Just about to head out for 15 in heavy rain image

    HeOw great news about the feet. Lit don't forget we want a report on the race this weekend. NN great double yesterday, hope your 15 and 15wests 15 go ok. JF50 the total sum of your 5 long runs should be 100 or over. ( not P&D) but back to back 20 or 20+ run will be ok. Done 20,20,22,22 so far image
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