P + D training for VLM 2013



  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    15W, I agree with Fiona, they're only sugar anyway, so can't go off. I don't believe in sell-by dates anyway and will happily eat anything that doesn't smell funny and doesn't have visible mould. And yet I have never (yet) had any digestive problems on a run. I think fish and chips would have the opposite effect on me, actually, all that stodge.

    Congratulations to Mrs Chris!

    And HeOw, just merge two of the remaining weeks that look similar -- it's not like you haven't been adapting the programmes anyway. And we won't tell P&D if you don't.

    And I did my 22-mile run (longest ever!). I was planning to do the first 10 at 8:45m/m, then the next 10 at 8m/m, then the last two at 7:20ish. In the end, I more or less managed that: first 9 (got bored) at 8:30 plus or minus 5 seconds, next 11 at 7:45-8, then last two at marathon pace felt like REALLY hard work. Realised afterwards that that was because I was doing them way too fast and 7m/m are NOT marathon pace. I'm a bit rubbish at gauging 'I'll just speed up a little bit now'. The whole thing took 2:57. It was nice, though. For the first five miles my legs were feeling quite stiff and tired, which is what you get for racing a half marathon and then plunging straight into a 70-mile week, but once I'd been moving for a while it felt much more comfortable.

    Also, I was paying attention to running form and I think it is absolutely true what P&D say about not going slower than MP+20% on  your long runs, because I did notice that once I picked up the pace I felt like my form and gait were much better and more efficient too.

  • Great long run lit. It's funny you say that about the form and improving as the run went on. My first 4 miles on mine were a shuffle and I gradually felt my muscles loosening and responding with an increase in pace. Imagine how nice it's going to feel running after a proper taper!

    Ps maybe 7.00 min milling is your mars pace after all?!

    Thanks Fiona - she is pretty chuffed. Her coach/husband is also! Ha.
  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    well done to Mrs. Chris image

    Fiona J wrote (see)
    Surrey - oh dear that doesn't sound great at all.

    No running for me. Supposed to be doing 22 miles but feel lousy with sinusitis and a nose running like a tap. Will do 22 next week instead of 17 I think.

    (((Fiona)))  smart decision to postpone the long run. Get well soon.

    Very strong run, lit image. I've never noticed the MP + 20% thing (and this is my 3rd P&D campaign image . I'm a twat image. I find the long runs (and I run mine by HR) very hard on the legs. Generally I feel loads better at slightly faster paces. Oh well, da next one then image

    Bugger HeOw - like others said, no harm done in doing a week less. It won't matter after so many consistent weeks that you have already banked.

    22 and a bit done @ 8:51 av. pace and 70% of max. HR. 76.5 miles racked up for the week. My highest for quite some time image

    Surrey & mark: I never do a long run without Imodium. Learned it the hard way. Massive gingerbreadman issue half a mile from home image. Since then no more long runs or races without!

  • Great long run Lit and well done to you other half Chris

    Myself, 18 mile long run, first 10 around 7:40 pace last 8 supposed to be around 7:20 pace but felt so well I averaged around 7:08 pace for the final 8.

    Came into the house never feeling so fresh after an 18 miler, felt there was loads left in the tank.  Rest tomorrow & a recovery week.

    I will be back on here later to catch up with peoples long runs and races, small matter of some decorating to do. 

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Chick, I think the +10-20% thing is supposed to be a balance between not doing them too fast to recover, but doing them fast enough that your running form is similar to race pace. In my club I am known as the one who reads too many books. image

    Fiona, meant to say: hope you feel better soon and definitely the right decision to do the 22 next week instead.

    I have been doing a small bit of Silverstone results stalking and am looking forward to hearing all about the exciting new PBs. image

  • Not had time to read back yet, just getting ready for birthday meal with family..result 1.40.32 little disapointed not to dip under the 1.40 but my 2nd fastest ever half marathon for me, I did 1.39.. 5 years ago so dead chuffed, also 1st in age cat and bottle champagne also 3rd in for the ladies team so we got 1st team prize too...catch up properly later..

  • My long run lasted a total of three miles before I had to stop due to a sharp pain in my left calf. (I've never had pain there before but it feels similar to a problem I had in my right calf about a year ago.)

    Been applying ice and compression all day but am worried that I'll have to rest it for weeks.


  • Brilliant run NN. Enjoy the recovery bubbly!
  • .I always have a final sprint in the last mile...image it wasnt even down hill..god knows where that came from !!


  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Ooh, well done NN and also happy birthday! image

    Ziggy, whenever I get very tight calves it tends to be brought on by tight glutes, hamstrings and hip flexors. Time for a massage? And fingers crossed it gets better soon.

  • oh missed a mile...mile 1..7.36

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭
    Happy birthday NN. & good result.

    I had a similar result in my HM, I did a 1:31:05 which is my second fastest official result but about 90 secs behind my PB, so outside 1:30. However its at least ten minutes quicker than my nightmare last HM, so I'm happy to put that in the past.I probably could have got closer to 1:30, but about mile 10 we ran into a nasty headwind & my pace just seemed to drift away, it was only in the last mile that I realised I'd slowed to marathon pace and picked up the pace.

    Did everyone else have a cold start this morning? It was -2.5 c for the start of the race, which meant it was only after three miles that I had the feeling restored in my toes. A new experience for me, my feet felt like I was wearing flippers for the first few miles !?!
  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Some super long runs and hitting the 22 mile marks all round, Lit it's going to feel so easy for you during the first half, all I will say is enjoy your first marathon if you go off to hard even 5 to 10 seconds a mile faster than you should it will cost you from mile 20 on, trust me I know it happened to me on my first marathon. But your looking like your in great shapeimage

    Chick great 22 in the bankimage

    NN fantastic running and 1st in age groupimageimageimage

    Ziggy hope the calf is ok you did the best thing stopping.

    Craig nice 18 with some nice MP in there.

    HeOw don't fret you will be fine but ensure you get the rest in don't over do itimage I know thats hard sometimes but better to get to the line fresh than over trained and all the best left on the roads in training.

    Chris77 well done to your OHimage

    Well did 22.44 miles this morning avg 7:36 very little water and no gels, thats my 6th 22 mile run in a row and the legs felt greatimage





  • I never go slower than 20% on my long runs and, if I feel ok will try and finish around 10% slower, as today I finished slightly faster, 7:08 average for last 8 as opposed to 7:20, but felt really well.  I was going to push it and finish at marathon effort but decided againgst it.  

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Don't worry NP, I'm planning to be really sensible in the marathon and will make myself stick to a more conservative pace for at least the first half even if I'm feeling bouncy. Even if Chris is trying to tempt me over to the dark side. 6th 22-mile run, though? Very impressive, if somewhat insane!

    Well done Stu. Which half did you do? You're not on my race-stalking list. The same thing happened to me at around mile 9/10 of the Keyworth Turkey Trot (never trust a race with a humorous name) in December -- I was just thinking 'shall I go for a sub-1:30' then turned a corner into a massive headwind and a big hill and thought 'no actually, I can't be arsed'.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Lit half way is 20 milesimage
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Okay okay I will be sensible for the first 20 miles, then! image If I do feel I could speed up would you definitely recommend waiting until then? It seems there is a balance to be struck between picking up the pace early enough to make a difference to the overall time, and waiting long enough to make sure it's not idiotic.

  • Well done all on some great long runs in the bank today - great efforts all round

    NN great result at Bideford for you today, sorry I didn't bump into you but it was quite busy! (and cold!!) - happy birthday btw!

    Race went OK for me, finished in 24th overall with a time of 1:21:41 (new PB to boot!) so am happy that the plan (Sub 3) seems to be on course

    Was also pleased that my pacing seemed to be quite consistent as my laps were 6:02 (too fast!) 6:10 6:21 (uphill) 6:05 6:20 (slight uphill) 6:10 6:24 (uphill) 6:06 6:13 6:16 6:14 6:19 0:44

     Probably do a very gentle 5/6 mile recovery tomorrow (if I feel like it!) 

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    DP great new PB sir image

    Lit I would see how you feel going through miles 15 to 17 before you up the pace, up to mile 13 you should feel that it is easy and it's just going through the motions, if you feel great but have gone off to fast you will know from mile 20 on as the wheels fall off, like I said going 10 seconds a mile to fast at the start will cost minutes from mile 20 to the end.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Hello. Good running and racing everyone.

    Ran 24 miles this afternoon in just under 3 hour. I was totally knackered at the end. Big difference between running sunday afternoon to my usual early morning is the amount of people out and about walking off their sunday lunch.

  • Hi people......just a quick question am following p&d 55mpw schedule for first marathon with a few tweaks coz of niggling little injuries and the like and because of this only doin my first vo2 session this tues. In book it says 8miles w/ 5 x 600m @ 5k race pace. My question is is this 8 miles then do the vo2 stuff and if so what sort of pace should I run the 8 miles. Thanks
  • Impressive race results Dave and NN. Bravo!

    Dave - damn straight you're on course for sub 3. Potential 2.55 with that time.

    I'm just back from Silverstone. Managed to hit my sub1.25 target and come home in 1.24.39 and a new PB. So I'm still going for sub 3 but it may be a tall order! My girlfriend also had an excellent run in 2hr flat, smashing her PB by 15 minutes.

    I've managed to web stalk Ten's excellent result but I'll let him reveal that to the thread...

    Silverstone was good overall, the final few miles were tough, which made me think I may have gone out a little too hard for the first 5 or so. The wind picked up and the second half was all about holding on (was also a bit hiller than the first). For the stat lovers:

    6.14 / 6.22 / 6.20 / 6.27 / 6.22 / 6.22 / 6.29 / 6.15 / 6.31 / 6.22 / 6.23 / 6.29 / 6.23 / 5.34 (last bit)

    Average pace 6.22, heart rate very high, averaging 93% HRR for the second half. Kind of surprised I got away with that!


  • 15 - stupendous 24M effort - what's your London target? (I'm assuming seriously quick!)

    Al - great PB (congrats to the GF too!) - with another 7 weeks training I think 3 could be on (London will definately be faster than Silverstone)

    Thanks to all for the positive comments, appreciate it

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Congrats to Dave and Al. Obviously I already knew your results, image but it's nice to hear them from the horse's mouth!

    LTB, do the VO2 stuff somewhere in the middle of the 8 miles and use the first and last bits to warm up/cool down at whatever seems like a comfortable pace.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭
    15w that's great running.

    Chrisj77 it was Llanelli - were you there?

    Lit, you summed up my race in on sentence, where it took me 8 hours & a bottle of wine to realise ????
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Oh, and I have a VO2 question too: for Tuesday, my schedule stipulates 9mi w/ 5x 600m at 5k race pace, with 90sec recoveries. But I know some of you newfangled 2nd edition people have been doing 800s and I'm a bit competitive. Can you tell me what the 2nd edition says?

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Stu, it takes you 8 hours to drink a bottle of wine? Amateur.

  • Yeah I was spectating at Llanelli today Stu. It was very cold at the start! Not quite as windy as the 10 miler a few weeks back thankfully for the runners. It was a shame about the stadium start location because we couldn't get down to the coastal path to spectate after the start. Hopefully they will revert back to the Millenium centre next year to boost the crowd support on route. Good time in that cold anyway Stu - you should be pleased.

    15W - smashing 24!

    And Dave P = 1.21 and still only thinking about sub 3?! Surely 2.50 - 2.55 could be a realistic target?! That's an amazing half time.

    Lit - new edition says 600's I think. But I am going to do 800's. Mainly for two reasons. 800's can be programmed in the Garmin as half miles easily. And I like to be able to compare back to see how I compare with previous 800s. But feel free to ignore me - at least on the long run pace! ha.

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