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The Middle Ground
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Kelly - Can we blame you for all this weather then? XC season has no right to be lasting this long!
I even cried off my (10 mins!) part-commute on the bike this morning because my face was cracking. Yes, Anna T won the women's race by a mile. She was also the only woman to beat my cycling time, by two clear minutes. Much respect! 
XC feels like it has been going forever. We started late Sept/early Oct, I think the last one will be the 8th race or something.
I'm quite jealous of Bradley's legs! Much smaller than mine. I haven't seen him for ages, but my physio concludes that I have bulky hamstrings. Erm, cheers for that.
Speaking of which, everything felt a bit stiff today, I think it's time for the dreaded foam roller.
Bradleys legs look like those of a very ill old person! Not jealous at all!
As for a TT bike it would be a very extravagant gift to yourself Phil! Though the feel good bike bling factor after purchase would be immense
Kelly – can you remember the Thirsk 10 route? Just forewarning you as I am driving the lead car and I dont want you going the wrong way if I get in wrong…..
YD, Phil, MrV - Thanks. Plenty to think about there. Will look into some of those strengthening routines tonight, though I do have the additional disadvantage of having fecked up knees, so lunges might be tricky! Might be quicker for me to list what still does work properly actually. Probably time to try swapping one of my runs for a session on the exercise bike though, Phil. Was doing plenty on the bike before I started running and what I took from that into my running seemed to stand me in good stead in the early days. Will perhaps do a session tonight, as I'd got a more general ache down the length of the leg with the grumbling calf this morning (has eased a little since), so don't fancy risking making it worse with even an easy 3 or 4 miles - plus it's absolutely perishing out there today! Good grief, I went numb just walking 2 minutes to the sandwich van and back.
Congrats on another successful weekend's running, PRF. Excellent stuff. Any meals in between or were you trying some more outlandish experimentation?
Had to chuckle at, and agree with, YD's assessment of Bradley's legs. Probably not a flattering angle, but they look dreadful to me too! Remind me of having to help my Dad lift my very ill Grandad in and out of the bath when I was a teenager, and the poor sod had aged about 20 years in 6 months, going from what was still effectively a strong as an ox middle-aged man, to a frail old man. We got another decade out of my Grandad though, so hopefully Wiggo is good for a while yet.
Hi all. Sounds like a good weekends training/racing from many of you!
Sounds like a solid race Phil allbeit in challenging conditions! Good luck with the World Championship qualifying! Shame about the transition times and factors involved there but still a very good effort! Funny how such minor things as with the decision on the gloves can influence things.
Congrats on the Parkrun PB BBB! That's a nice slice of your previous best! Interesting thoughts on the cricket/running too! I will still continue with the hockey but some days races take precedent for me now!
Good to hear the positive news on the injury front Mr V! And hopefully some progress soon for you too YD!
Nice Parkrunning and discipline in the 20 mile PRF! That sounded like a tough mental exercise in tough conditions as well! Good Parkrun too Wardi too!
Curly - you along with everyone else has been telling me to be less conservative with my marathon target so you should be as well - it's only fair!
To be totally honest though, you have been hammering out much more mileage so you never know and if you feel good on the day just go for the faster target!
This leads me onto my weekend's running which took place on Saturday. A Parkrun in Cambridge (a surprise weekend away organised by my partner) whereby I finished in 20:02. I do seem to have a real issue when it comes to hitting my lactic threshold whereby the pace drops off. However, I am not too concerned about this at the moment whatwith the marathon being the bigger picture (mile splits were 6:23, 6:30, 6:39 and 6:02 for the last 0.1 mile). 40 minutes or so after this, I set out on a long run of just over 18 miles. Following your recent progression runs Curly, I attempted something similar with some success;
First 7 miles target of 9 m/m pace - averaged out at 8:42 m/m
Miles 7-12 target of 8:30 m/m pace - averaged out at 8:06 m/m
Miles 13-17 target of sub 8 m/m pace - averaged out at 7:50 m/m
Overall, pretty happy with this effort...although it was extremely hard work especially from about miles 15 onwards!
Chellenging weather conditions again too! I may have started off a little quick earlier on with my intended pace targets was releived that I managed to finish by hitting intended MP towards the end. A warm down of a mile or so was in a duck wobble type fashion and literally had nothing left in me and had to be picked up half a mile from the hotel...what a wimp! 
Would you all class this 18 along with the Parkrun though as a 21 mile effort for marathon training or as seperate runs?
That said, thanks for all the advice from all of you so far.
Ratzer and Kaysdee you are both definitely right to point out the lower mileage I have been running to hit an equivalent time to my 1:27:45 half....in particular I have not been running long midweek runs Ratzer in the way you have (10-12 rather than 18 miles!). I think that the long run on Saturday has given me confidence that I could potentially hit sub 8 m/m pace at Brighton! Aiming to perhaps have the 2nd half of next weekends planned 20 miler at MP!
Kelly – I reckon you might surprise yourself at Thirsk. You’ve certainly had a good block of training in. Good effort on winning the league. We on the other hand are on the verge of relegation. I’m usually second counter which I think shows the strength (or rather lack of) of our team. My recent injury hasn’t helped matters! Maybe I’ll finally get round to joining Tyne Bridge when I’m back to fitness!
YD – Looks like you've been promoted from last year's car parking duties then
I was all set to come down for Thirsk for a (slow) tempo but seems the trains aren’t running properly on that day so I’m giving it miss. Probably for the best anyway – at least for my position in the wava table 
Evening everyone! No chance to post recently, but I have a day off tomorrow which is nice
YD, oh yeah it's a very scenic one to do. As you said perhaps not the quickest course ever though.
BBB - good run and in the ballpark for what you should expect given your 10k I think. Nicely done.
Excellent effort in those conditions Wardi!
Curly - great long run, do you have an idea what (if anything) you plan to eat raceday morning? Given your sessions unfuelled are you planning to not have anything?
Phil, qualifying for the worlds? Wow! Well done on the race.
prf, another good weekend in the bag by the sounds of it. A lot of positives to take out of yesterday as well!
Well my training's been totally curtailed by the snow. No point in even trying to get to the track right now, so my plan is to go back into winter base, doing my sessions on the road as much as possible until the snow's melted (hopefully no more than 2 weeks as we are due more apparently) then starting pre-comp again.
So probably a bunch of 600s tomorrow (or ~90s) around 5:00/m with longish recoveries for some VO2 max development.
Duck - Sensible decision. No precipitation down here to speak of (yet) but the only exercise I've done today was indoors on the spin bike. I headed straight for the kettle when I got home - sod running in this icy blast!
...I look a bit cold! Better calves than Bradley though.
YD - my volunteering duties are limited to marshalling, or if at parkrun, scanning barcodes. Anything else is too much responsibility! Watch you don't stall the car
Mr V - I don't know. All I can think is the best I have hit for parkrun in I don't know how long is 21.30. If that is a struggle, I'm not holding out hope of a decent pace for so much further. My problem is that I can't get out of "pb mentality". I mentally compare every race to pb shape (2011) and I just have to face that for whatever reason I'm not that "good" right now and havent been for a long time. Everything feels like a failure compared to the shape I was in and I just can't understand why I'm not progressing more than I am. Why is my training not yielding better results? It still feels like the limiting factor is the lungs, but it has been too prolonged and I'm just getting fed up.
As an aside, that guy just contacted me a few days ago about the second set of tests for that study I was in and once I complete those, he can give me a definitive diagnosis of EIA (or not, maybe im just rubbish, ha) and some kind of action/treatment plan. I am still on my inhalers but it doesn't feel like it is helping much. I think it also implied I would be getting some vo2 max tests, etc, as a thank you for taking part. That would be interesting.
Phil - cracking picture
WJH - I'm not surprised you found that tough at the end after that parkrun. I have every faith you could go sub 3.30. Don't tell yourself that you potentially can, tell yourself you CAN. Embrace the hurt
BBB - must be a woman thing, I would kill for slim legs!
I'm still thinking about the Vets. There's a chance I ditch the Castles marathon and go back to the TM, which is the champs race this year so it might be worth it.
Kelly it must be very frustrating not being able to hit the times of 2011, I'm scared that I had one good HM in me and that it'll be downhill all the way from now. As for the weather it's been hellish, did a miserable Saturday coastal run into the wind and rain for 7miles, then another 7 with the wind side on. Couldn't face running in the heavy snow today but I'll have to cowgirl up and get out tomorrow.
PP well done on the duathlon!
BBB try doing some clams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-8G9SZvuc if you want to beast your glutes do it with an exercise band just above your knees.
As for Bradley's legs they look awful in that picture!
More glutes, try this one it burns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0A7dKgm66w&feature=share
Oops yes agreed asbout clams, I forgot to mention them!
Nice picture Phil, though could do better on the gurn!
Phil great pic
Kelly good to see some races coming up - your times will come back and more, just need to race that fitness in for now then get another block of training I would suspect.
BBB never swap out runs for cross training (i.e. the bike) it does help but it has to be extra.
Mr V sounds a shame to be missing Thirsk but might be the right thing right now, you dont need to jepordise your recovery at all by going off too hard.
WJH you are nuts! You are supposed to do the quality long run instead of a session not as well as parkrun, well done no wonder you were tired
Duck good to see you back posting, no snow here, but am sure one or two more weeks of base wont hurt too much - it might all be gone in a few days anyway
Well I was brave and did cycle to and from work yesterday and went running but boy was it tough in the wind. 7 to do tonight and a lovely bookend tomorrow of:
3M wu, strides, 1M @ 10k pce, 90secs, 7M @ MP, 90s, 800m @ 10k, 90s, 800m @ 10k, 90, CD
I like those sessions a lot and since I have Weds off I can do it in the daylight too. Hopefully the wind will have calmed a little as well
More cycling today...urgh.
WJH - Congrats on your own parkrun - but 18 miles on the end of it?! Sheer madness!
Top effort though - think you can be forgiven the last 1/2 mile!
Kelly, Minni, Curly, et al - So we seem to have established that most of the girls want Wiggo's legs and most of the lads don't - funny old world, innit?!
Phil - Suitably knackered looking finish line portrait! Though as YD mentions, disappointing lack of gurn - too tired for even one of those?
Thanks again for the strengthening exercise advice, folks, including Vellooo. Hellooo, Vellooo. Spent my late evening yesterday going through and practising some of these - you were right about the planking, YD - the first couple of links I followed previously really did overcomplicate something that's very straight forward. "Beginners must do it this way, yada, yada, yada, you'll get injured otherwise, etc."
So, now have planking, glute bridges, forward and back lunges, squats, an awkward looking adductor exercise and clams lined up. Also had a quick glance at your second link this morning, Vellooo, and will give that a go later as well when I can have a proper look at home.
I note Phil mentions he does his strengthening work twice a week, but is it worth me trying to do these on rotation (say 4 per session) three times per week at least initially?
Point taken about the bike sessions, Curly. Time constraints might mean I have to tag these on to one of my weekend sessions though - late afternoon/evening following either after a parkrun or a Sunday long generally therefore. Any reason that wouldn't be a good idea?
It might have to be instead of a run at least for this week though, as much to take some strain off the right leg. The calf now seems to have eased, but the discomfort has transferred to an almost sciatic feeling at the back of the leg above the knee, and to a very tender feeling either side of the achilles. There's clearly something not quite right, so apart from practising the exercises and some stretching last night, I decided to do nothing. Bike tonight I think, and then just some easy running miles tomorrow and Thursday. Bit frustrating as was looking to up the miles again ahead of my next 10k on Easter Monday, but telling myself I'd set myself back further with an injury (obviously) than with a day or two off.
Hope your snow clears up soon, Duck and whilst we don't seem to have much further south (apart from Sussex I think I'm hearing?) it is damn cold, so hope it warms up and the Baltic wind drops off soon, particularly for Curly's big session tomorrow! Did someone mention spring? No? Thought not.
Oooo I think PRF might be writing for the Guardian
Not really but awesome article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/mar/11/faster-1980s-old-school-running-training?commentpage=1
BBB if you have a niggle like that then rest it - no bike lest it become and injury imo...or an easy cycle but thats impossible in this wind. A walk is a good replacement - ask Alehouse
Morning all.
Phil congratilations on the duathlon. Fingers crossed for selection.
75 reports down, 25 to go...
Speedwork this morning. Still really struggling to hit any pace at all. I've have fairly inconsistent mileage recently and my weight has crept up, so it's not entirely suprising. More miles and less chocolate, keep trying the faster sessions and it will come good in the end!
Love the article , Curly! Especially:
"The most important aspects of a distance runner's training are patience and consistency. These things are not glamorous. They don't fit in particularly well in today's society. There is no quick fix and no immediate gratification."
To be honest I think the article refers more to the 60s and 70s: it was in the mid to late 80s that things seemed to change. Consistent consistency!
BBB: On my 40th birthday a wise old guy from my club (55 at the time: gosh, I'm older than that and passing on the same wisdom!) told me that there are two things he regretted not doing as he got older...flexibility work and speed work. He said that he never lost his endurance, but speed and suppleness. Did I listen? No! Obviously things will be a little different for you as a relative newcomer, but the flexibility, in particular, remains: I failed to injury protect myself and look where I am now! I also think it is another case of where less is more: I would advocate shorter, daily (my physio complains that I am only doing them Twice daily!) stretches and strengthening.
And f you can't run, walk! Ask PRF: if you haven't looked at the first parts of his blog (running on a raisin) then it is worth a look.
PP: interesting photo! Thought you would have worn gloves, though!
Edit: BBB: PRF's background is at the bottom of this page, hopefully...
http://runningonaraisin.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2011-12-31T16:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2012-01-15T21:00:00Z&max-results=17&start=15&by-date=false
Interesting article, Curly. Will try to follow that blog. The cycling I'd be doing would actually be on an exercise bike in the loft conversion, so very boring compared to being out in the elements (and thus why I soon swapped to running once I 'discovered' it in November), but does have the advantage of being able to be done as easy as I like, and I can also just step off if I feel a twinge rather than having to battle my way home and making it worse. The discomfort is also substantially down on yesterday so I'll have a gentle half hour or so before properly tackling some of the strengthening exercises I think. Beside it's too cold to just walk at the moment!
Getting there with those reports, CB!
Alehouse - Thanks for your thoughts. I'm well on with the stretching - I do that as often as it occurs to me, and (if at work) when I'm sure nobody is looking! Could probably do it in a more organised fashion though, so something to work on alongside the strengthening. I've read quite a bit of PRF's blog, but hadn't seen that introductory background detail no - amazing stuff!
PP - when we had the Nike guys in at work a few months ago they commented on the size of my thighs
didn't think they were that bad!
I'll give you an 8 for the picture, but no tri suit? Disappointed
Windy here too Curly, not easy to run in. Daniels gives a 2 m/s headwind as increasing demand for O2 by 5%, a 10mph headwind apparently can make as much as 10% difference (this is what I can deduce anyway so may be wrong)!
"The most important aspects of a distance runner's training are patience and consistency. These things are not glamorous. They don't fit in particularly well in today's society. There is no quick fix and no immediate gratification."
Great quote.
I got myself down the (windy) boulevard this morning for 4.8M w/3.4M fartlek (21'10, 6:17/m avg). Cycled around between 800/1500/3k intensities and got some good aerobic development I think - breathing was pretty hard by the end. Pretty steady pace for recoveries too - slowest 200m section was just under 8:00/m.
YD / BBB - Sorry about the half-hearted gurn. Remember Hans Solo appearing for the first time in Return of the Jedi? That's just the shape my face was in when it froze half way round.
Duck - I was all gimped out actually, but with an extra layer over the top, which takes the fetishist edge off somewhat. I think your thighs are great!
Curly - Saw that article yesterday. Good stuff. I think the guys above have quoted the bits that stuck out for me as well. I like the sound of your mixed up session - might just be enough to keep your mind off the weather!
I'm out tonight, so always planned a long tempo/MP session for lunchtime instead. I took the wimp's option and did it on the treadmill, my longest ever session on the contraption. 11M w/ 8M @ 5:49 (or 47 mins @ 16.6kph, in gym-speak!) Strapped on the HR monitor out of curiosity, and the figures were reassuringly predictable; after a few minutes HR was rock-solid on 164/165 (exactly my target HR for MP runs recently), then after 20+ minutes crept up to 168, and maxed out at 170, again remaining very steady for a few minutes. This is obviously down to steadily increasing body temperature, which you wouldn't get out of doors. All very manageable. I might have sweated a bit though.
Those Hoy thighs are just inhuman
Phil - As you say, very straightforward qualification criteria. To be fair, I reckon if you have actually put in the necessary effort to work out how to qualify then you deserve to go based on that alone.
Kelly - Good luck with the scheduled races, hopefully you'll come out of the other end of them feeling like you're back to your old self!
BBB -Well done on the parkrun PB.
Both the 5K and Spen 20 were run unfuelled, so it was something like 13 hours before Spen 20 when the last food was consumed, but that didnt stop the last mile being 6:17 with plenty left in the tank, so it looks like the series of unfuelled long runs have been doing their job
WJH - Excellent session on Saturday but I wouldnt worry about what to class it as, it is what it is!
Curly - Excellent article. I think I'll copy that quote that Alehouse picked out on to FB and see what response it gets.
Alehouse - it is interesting how Martin Rees doesnt seem to actually bother with all this ageing process nonsense, he just ploughs on running the times of top local 30 year olds. A 1:11 HM last week as a 60 year old!
Duck - It sounds like you're doing well to get anything done at the moment. Can you get that Scottish weather sorted out before June please?
Phil, good chef hunting. You'll be closer with a posh bike. PRF, WJF and any other racing acronyms; good racing!
Apologies to any other of the hordes I may have missed.
After incurring brain freeze as a result of an ill-advised run in a horizontal snow storm yesterday I recovered enough to do 70 minutes on the dready today which, as experiences go, can only be described as up there with having my crack waxed!
Extra apologies for the harrowing imagery!
Haha Dash! The acronym is simply my full name which is double barrelled abbreviated…I wish it was more exciting than that but unfortunately not!
Your description to running on a treadmill made me laugh as has Phil’s 'contraption' description! I must be an odd one in that I quite enjoy them when I’m in the mood!
Thanks PRF – gives me confidence going forward!
….and Curly I will not be looking to do anything that involves a Parkrun of any description and LSR combined again that’s for sure!
My legs are still a little out of sorts now so I am thinking about my next long session on the weekend being time on feet rather than pace specific for building the overall endurance! Oh and that article makes for very interesting reading!
Alehouse – talking flexibility etc, I came across a Ryan Giggs Strenth and Conditioning DVD when away on the weekend…possibly would have purchased that if I hadn’t over budgeted on other things! A snapshot of what it’s about (apologies if you or anyone else knows of it already);
'features a number of generic conditioning circuits, focusing on the main musculo-skeletal issues predominant in football and running sports, combined with yoga-inspired excercises, used to develop flexibility, maintain stamina, core stability and speed and prevent injury'.
He is one of the best in looking after himself so any tips from that could be good! I must admit I did a bit of planking a fair few months ago following Ducks mammoth efforts but really need to at least start up some basic core work again!
Good to see the morning speed sessions continuing CB!
Good session by the looks today Duck….oh I hope the weather improves by the time Eastleigh comes round!!!
Sounds like we are at a similar places time wise kaysdee - or at least when taking WAVA out of the equation!
Hopefully a change in the weather will bring a change in form and fortunes!
Phil – there is one gurn photo I LOL’d at a while ago…I might have read it on another thread (or on here?), it's possibly from the Brighton half last year but can’t be sure!
Phil - thanks
that sounds the kind of session that mentally is just about doable on a treadmill!
prf - sent the Strathclyde lot an email today while sorting some parkrun stuff out, so hopefully I'll get a reply back soon. Before I moved house (back in 2005 I think) we got snowed in in April so anything is possible!
WJH - sure that's not just Ryan Giggs and his mistress
Planking, not tried to see how long I can plan for recently but I'm doing a ton of sideplank and v-sits now as well, so each exercise isn't as long (I normally do 2 mins each). I'll have to give it a go at some point.
Oh sorry Duck did I answer your q about brekkie on marathon day? Yes, I'll have porridge with golden syrup which is what I eat for brekkie a lot of the time anyway (but not usually before long runs) and a cup or two of black coffee, but stop about 3 hours before and then possibly one tea or just some water and stop that about an hour before.
If its cool I plan not to drink on course, but if its sunny or warm then I possibly will. Depends how I feel to be honest. Its pretty standard for me to race without but I always decide during the race about fueling etc. It's not a big deal to me, but its good to keep your options open.
WJH - The one gurn photo that still makes me wince just thinking back to it was at the end of the Bristol HM in 2010, where I missed my sub-75 target by 13 seconds. Possibly that one!
Hmmm... marathon brekkie. Never too early to think about that! Three hours sounds about right. It could go a few different ways for me (all tried and tested, of course!) Odds-on favourite would be chocolate porridge, although I could go the maple syrup route. Or I might have knocked up a loaf of wholemeal, and smother it with raspberry jam. Finally, I could renew last year's post-Easter fixation and have some hot cross buns, which of course will be on special offer in all the shops. Again, with raspberry jam of course. All washed down with a cup of strong coffee.
Oh yes, one of the advantages of getting an MP run in on the treadmill is that it helped me practise drinking whilst running at speed. Thankfully VLM doesn't have anything silly like plastic cups, so I think I'll be able to get a good few glugs of water and Lucozade Sport down me without too much trouble.
Right, executive decision made. With the duathlon now out of the way, I'm going for the final push, dropping all my gym sessions (apart from Monday lunchtime spin, good for loosening up the legs after a hard weekend's training) and getting in some doubles instead. I reckon I can easily squeeze in another 20mpw of easy running. Starting today, 6.5M in a bizarre mix of hail and sunshine. 7M later.
But Phil you havent answered the really big question!! What will dinner be the night before?
I'm making butternut risotto and will have one glass of wine with it to help me sleep
Right, had a bit of weather paddy today, but did get my session done and on pace, just not the usual free flowing sessions I've been having for a while. Still, 6 months ago I would have quit rather than complete so pleased in that respect that my mental strength is there, the fitness is there, but I just wish the wind would piss off
3M @ 8:20, strides, 1M @ 6:46, 90secs, 7.2M @ 7:32 (possibly a bit faster - forgot to stop watch at a crossing so lost some time there), 90secs, 0.5M @ 6:50, 90secs, 0.5M @ 6:46, 90secs, cd
14 miles in total the last 7 into a tough headwind. REALLY want some cake.Good job the cupboards are empty
Nice session, Curly. Character building stuff in this weather.
Now the obvious answer to the dinner question is: a big lump of Aberdeen Angus rump steak, mash, portobello mushrooms & garlic, and curly kale, all washed down with a couple of glasses of red and followed by profiteroles. BUT I was informed yesterday that 20th April is Record Store Day and my mate works in a shop up town that's having a free gig with an interesting line-up. Depending on the timing I might decide to stay out for dinner, which would then most likely be a trip to Wong Kei in Chinatown for barbecued pork on rice, with plain fried noodles and Chinese greens in oyster sauce, washed down with as much jasmin tea as I can drink.