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The Middle Ground
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Slight change of plan to the run tonight. After looking at the route again and seeing the sideways snow out the window I decided a steady pace as opposed to 10k pace would be more suitable.
Had a nice easy run to the club meet around a mile away from home. Around half a mile in to the main run I knew even the reduced pace wasn't going to happen on the off road route, so ran entirely on feel and tried to keep it what i'd imagine tempo pace would have felt like on the road. Wasn't too far off pace and hopefully the uneven ground has been a bit kinder to the legs and helped build strength a bit. As soon as I hit the road the pace came right down and the last mile was 7:05 which is steady state pace in accordance with my mcmillan training paces so fairly happy with the run. Tidy push to the finish for the last few 100m's nipping under 5m/m which was nice
Legs feel fine afterwards too so should still be fairly fresh for parkrun saturday.
After this week i'll probably avoid parkruns and concentrate on training for my next couple of races next month.
"Sunny Intervals" forecast for tomorrow. See, even the weather sounds speedy!
Still awaiting official confirmation obviously, but the Garmin read a 35 second PB as I crossed the line at parkrun this morning.
Should be about 21:22 I reckon.
That's now 3:14 off from 24:36 at the turn of the year, and 4:13 off from my debut 4 months ago.
Suspect the next 4 minutes might take a little longer mind......
I did my first 5k in 19.07 18 months ago and I've lopped a massive 24 seconds since!
Well done Bob, great result! I think it was definitely a day for it today. Nice and cool, small amount of breeze but nothing serious. Another 20 seconds off for me today, might have been more had I started the push to the finish sooner, down to 19:06 now (EDIT: 19:09 according to parkrun). Bit disappointed to miss sub-19 but pleased all the same, and it'll be official this time as I remembered my barcode, hooray! I'll keep 19 minutes a soft target for the near future
What am I supposed to base my training on now though? This performance? Or my recent 10k/10m race times that aren't in line with this at all anymore! I'm confused!
Good conditions today at Netley Abbey too and dry underfoot for the first time in recent memory which was something in itself! Managed a a 37 second PB for this Parkrun in 19:37 although that was a bonus more than anything. I decided to have a deliberatly fast start with the intention of hanging on at the end...this was reflected in splits of 6:02, 6:27, 6:32 and 5:41 for my 'sprint'...or lack of!
Nice to see progress at long last YD! That fitness will come back stronger than ever and who knows, one step back to go even further forward? So you put me in for 3:20 next week then? No pressure there at all! :-P The minimum I'd like now is sub 3:30 I'd guess but am going to approach it as sensibly as possible and aim for half way in 1:45 as a minimum depending on how I feel and then assess what is sustainable up to 20 miles.
How's the new shoes Duck? And your planning to wimp out of a 1,500 next weekend rather than add it to the 100 and 400m's deary me! :-P I did a few 1,500 metre races in my school days but can't remember the times at all
Nice negative split PRF! Sounds like VLM preparation is going great....finally got round to reading your blogs and they are a good read with the spontaneous travelling you do!
Hope the 10K goes well tomorrow Mr V!
Shame about London Ratzer....any focused training plans for summer targets?
What marathon are you entering Vellooo? A long run once a month (16-20) miles is something I'd like to carry on with as well.
Looks like a fun days pacing Phil...and some monster mileage there! Any plans to carb load with a curry in the days before VLM? I'm asking as I'd normally see something like this as a post race treat but perhaps not in this case??? I love my curry too much so any excuse for me!
Why thank you Curly!
Stevie - I have since realised my Run Britain handicap might be compromised by some slow Parkruns with the other half...one being on a very muddy and hilly in places Eastleigh Parkrun the day before the Eastleigh 10K in 40 odd minutes (quite a contrast between the two courses then!
Was saying my partner isn't too keen on the PO10 ranking for Parkrun as she thinks its not so encouraging for slower recreational runners like herself!
Thinking about a few who haven't been on here in a while...hope YPs MK marathon plans are going well and that CBs training is going along nicely.
iower, dash - Thanks. Revised down to 21:24 in the end, but still delighted with that. Found myself isolated for the vast majority of well over the last half of the run which was a bit annoying - almost always seems to happen to me at parkrun - and makes it difficult to push as hard as I can when running with others.
Was also a bit late getting down there today, didn't get as long a warm up as I'd like and was still blowing a bit from the strides when we got going.
At 64.72%, it gets me tantalisingly close to the 65% WAVA mark, so maybe next week for that - although the mileage will be going back up this week as I look longer term again, so that might take a bit out of the legs come Saturday.
Much better splits today at 6:49, 6:54, 6:49 and then 5:30 pace in the push for the line over what the Garmin measured as the last 0.16 of a mile rather than 0.1.
Dash - 19:07 on 5k debut?!
Aye caramba. Did you carry a strong level of fitness into your running from other sports, or had you just concentrated on other distances first? I'm sure you'll be smashing that down further now you're back at it and sounding strong anyway.
iower - Top stuff from you...you're flying at the moment - congrats! Am I right in thinking thats about 2:20 off your PB in a fortnight? (Albeit was previously a self confessed soft one.)
Agree with Dash too - use this for your training times, but if there's a big discrepancy between this and your 10k times, perhaps focus your training on endurance rather than speed for a couple of months?
WJH - Thanks too. Yes, definitely the shot in the arm I needed after the relative disappointment in absolute terms of last week's 10k. Actually snuck some intervals in during the week to test my pace out, and whilst it was bitterly cold, it was encouraging what I managed to squeeze out, so thought a decent PB was in me today, though didn't dare think it would be this much.
Good effort from you too, to backup your 19:00 on another course last week. Well done!
All building nicely for next week - don't go getting yourself injured at the hockey though!
Well done on the parkruns iower, BBB and WJH!
PHIL thanks for the advice, I'm really looking forward to reading Advanced Marathoning. It'll give me and my BF plenty to argue about, although his eyes lit up when he read the bit about not doing long runs too slow.
WJH it's the Nice to Cannes, so at worse I'll have a trip to the south of France. Got an undulating half next Sunday in Edin so keeping things easy this weekend. 6miles today and something longer and hopefully off road tomorrow.
YD that all sounds encouraging, gym stuff is hardwork as every minute lasts for ever...
It was before our parkrun started and 5k s seem to be fairly rare round these parts otherwise.
Funnily enough, whilst ensconced in a toilet cubicle pre-race I overheard an alien accent( well, to mid- Norfolk anyhow) which turned out to be a certain runner from Barnsley. Small world hey?
Dash: I was only wondering today as I plodded (actually rather slower than "plodded") for 15 minutes how BR (and Hilly) are. Not seen them on here much lately, or much of PRF either.
Well done on the PBs today: noticed a few other people I know clocking PBs and more to come I would think when it gets warmer.
Been absolutely ill since the day after Thirsk with some kind of chest infection and a hacking cough. No running due to this for a week and also too busy with the school holidays and massive DIY projects, but I still decided to go and do the Hartlepool Marina 5M race today.
What a great race. Top marks to the organisers. Would be brill when fully fit.
I didn't really have a plan in mind. The first 3 miles were pretty good, splits 6.54, 6.53, 6.52 with a bit of a breeze heading out, so I thought "great, that'll be a little push on the way back", turned the cone and sighed at what meant would be 2 miles back into the wind. How does that happen?? Whilst nowhere near the gales of Thirsk, it took me straight back to the memory of how bad the end of that race felt.
Pace fell off in the next mile, 7.03 I think and I thought when I got to 4 that I'd be able to pick it up, but I was too fed up with the wind, couldn't breathe (trying to cough and run is interesting, ha) and the illness fatigue clearly took a toll. I think I slipped down to about 7.12 and a little bit over 5 took me to 35.01 on the watch. I must start looking at my watch when I get within a quarter of a mile! 34.59 would have been nicer
I can't remember my official 5m pb, something around 34.42, so all things considering, today was surprisingly better than I figured. My pb is still soft since it is a rare distance here and I would have thought I'd be looking at closer to 31.xx when I was in my peak (ha, I say that like I'm 90 or something), but I'm starting to see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
Now, to get one weekend where I'm not ill, injured, I actually manage a warm up, weather is good...
Have a 6m race next week and a 5K the week after that. Attempts to race myself fit continue to go quite well.
Ales, I'm sure PRF will be on here soon. He had a decent run today.
The Brillys have been having a whale of a time by the looks of it on FB, travelling about and parkrunning. Like Arnie, theyll be back!
39.30 ish today. A minute 20 quicker than last week and a very small p.b despite my legs turning to jelly again in the last mile. Lack of endurance or too many Aspells? Hmmmm..
Evening all!
Storming parkruns from BBB, iower and WJH!
Nice to be so close to your pb given such tough week and conditions Kelly - think of the fitness gains from the race
Very nice racing from Dash today too despite the too many aspells
Good to see Alehouse getting out too and YD's gym work continuing.
Fully into taper mode today with just an easy three! Yesterday was my club's handicap 3 mile road race, had a very tough handicap so was pleased with 19:42 which is the same pace as my 5k time, which was on the flat, whereas this race is two laps each with a large hill in and four 180 degree turns around cones (as well as passing all the slower runners towards the end). Was fastest woman and 10th fastest overall which I think was pretty decent.
Then had club annual prize giving and collected my Hugh Jones Salver for the race I won a while back, which has my name engraved on the back too:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/71432_10201127982505504_236312467_n.jpg
Dash - Congrats on the new PB. Great going so soon into your racing comeback. Get some ale down you rather than that cider nonsense and I'm sure you'll smash more off still.
And yes, these Yorkies seem to get about don't they?!
Top effort from you too, Kelly - particularly in the circumstances. Shift the chest infection and that hard winter should really start to stand you in good stead. I picked up a chest infection myself less than a month into my running last December, and it pretty much plonked me back to square one being so new to it. Horrible.
Good that Alehouse continues on the comeback trail albeit in conservative fashion, and congrats to Curly on the racing over the weekend and picking up the earlier won silverware. So Curly, why is it that you call yourself, Curly?
And Dash - thought you said you were going to sneak that dress back into the poor lass's wardrobe once you'd finished with it?
...my friends once helped ther boss move house and found some gay mags under his bed ( he's happily married to a woman). When confronted, the boss fella held up his hands and confessed that it was just a phase he went through a long time ago. Unfortunately for him, the mags were all that months edition!
Some good parkruns going on over the weekend.
Dash – Great to see you PBing again and this from a man who says he’s maxed his improvement
I reckon that might be the psychological push you need to start a new improvement curve.
Kelly – Glad you had a good run and are feeling more positive about your running at the moment. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the race – I’ve been meaning to have a crack at that one for a couple of years now.
Blyth 10k for me yesterday. Had been feeling a bit ill the previous couple of days and still felt slightly dodgy. But given I’d got up and it was nice and sunny I figured I may as well have a trot round. Ended up at around MP (40.15) which is a good session if you are feeling ropey I suppose.
Another flurry of PBs/parkrun PBs showing the thread's in rude health - well done BBB, WJH, iower.
Also good to see Kelly, Dash and MrV getting back to it and racing on the same weekend. It's like old times!
Curly - I think I might be getting my silver salver from Maidenhead delivered to me on Tuesday. I bet it's not as big as yours though!
Congrats.
Loving all this taper lark. 7 miles easy on Saturday and 11 miles yesterday w/ 6 @ 6:05, which is actually target pace for a club mate I was running with, so a little short of MP for me but quick enough to get the legs ticking over. Plus Greenwich Park was crazy busy in this unseasonably seasonal weather, so many dog-obstacles were side-stepped.
I've been sneezing a bit over the last few days, but just to prove I'm immune to taper-madness I'm pretty sure this is my first hay fever symptoms of the year. I can live with that.
Oh yeah, WJH - I'm saving the curry till after the race. Dishoom in St Martin's Lane does the best chicken tikka, cheese naan and black daal I've ever tasted, and it's about 400 yards up from the pub we're all meeting at. Think I'll be avoiding anything too spicy in the days leading up to it, although Saturday evening meal may well be barbecued pork on rice, noodles, and Chinese greens in oyster sauce, washed down with jasmine tea. Or if I make it home before dinner time, the traditional steak and mash with mushrooms and curly kale, washed down with red wine.
Dash - Ouch - explain that away then, Mr Boss Man!
Glad to hear you're back racing, Mr V after the lay off. Good session indeed.
Phil - aye - lots more folk out yesterday on my Sunday long run than on any previous occasion too, including some rowers finally actually making use of the rowing lake at Holme Pierrepont for the first time since I started including it in my route...or they were using part of it at least. Just to prove the point about how crazy the weather is at the moment, the warm(ish) sunshine and light winds contrasted with the rowers finding they couldn't use the top quarter or so of the rowing lake as it was iced over!
Just to complete the topsy-turvy feel to it all, spent much of the circuit trying to avoid swallowing the vast legions of small, flying creatures that had emerged together en-masse into the slightly more seasonal conditions. Nice.
Still, was great to ditch the long pants and feel the fresh air round the legs again for the first time in a few weeks, and run with the sunshine on the brow - something I'm just not familiar with at all having been exclusively a winter runner so far. The warmth, and lighter winds meant easy pace was up a notch at 8:30/mile pace across the 9.5 miles, cut short of the full 10 as we were meeting friends for Sunday lunch. An absolute mountain of food including a decent sized half chicken went down very well indeed.
Most of the forecasts I'm reading seem to be suggesting that's the last of the spring weather for another 10 days or so at least though.
Thanks All, and well done to all those others improving over the weekend.
WJH - I think building up endurance is the key thing for me over the next few months. This weekend has proven further that my long distance performances clearly aren't in line with the shorter stuff. This does suggest a sub-40 10k though so fingers crossed!
BBB - Yea it's been a weird progression really as I haven't had fast conditions to test myself over 5k for a while. Ran 21:40 in October last year on a hilly multi-terrain course, then 21:14 in January on a flat one (pretty muddy though), and finally in the 19's these last two weeks. I know what you mean with regards to running with others too - I find it so much easier to push a certain pace if I've got someone to run with.
As far as training goes, I know once i've got regular longer easy/tempo runs going with more easy miles throughout the week my longer race times will come down. To put it in perspective, current 10k pb is 41:35. I think i'll try some runs based on this most recent time and see how it goes. If I'm finding this too difficult i'll slow it down slightly until i'm finding things a bit more manageable. I've got a 10 and 10k race coming up so these will help shed a bit of light on where I really am.
All this talk of food is making me hungry, I might have to go and have my lunch early I think!
Quick question or two, folks. Have had a couple of cut back weeks either side of my last 10k race and leading into my push at parkrun on Saturday, but now want to increase the mileage again.
So, from 28 miles in the last full week before the 10k, I've now done around 21/22 miles for each of the last two weeks.
1. Rather than push on again from 28 immediately, am I right in thinking that general advice would be to get back to 28 miles this week, and then push up at, say, a couple of miles per week for the next few weeks thereafter?
2. Is the cut back to just over 20 miles for each of the last two weeks enough to count as a proper periodic cut back to allow adaptation, or should I be looking to reduce my mileage further for a week in the not too distant future, and if so, what would be a sensible volume to cut back to from current levels?
Thanks.
iower - Exploring those new paces cautiously in training, and testing them out in race conditions sounds sensible enough to me I'd have thought. Good luck.
Bob – good to see the improvement curve isn’t in danger of hitting a plateau just yet. As for weekly mileage, option 1 is the better but don’t be afraid to push it a little if you feel good mid way through the week.
Iower – great work at parkrun, as others have said I would go on your latest performance to base training paces on.
WJH – nice work to complete the parkrun PB trio, you are in very good shape at the moment it seems. As for Marathon targets, I do think 3:30 sounds a bit soft for you, however you haven’t been a big mileage runner before so conversion might not be your strong suit. So the caution you are displaying is understandable and sensible IMO.
Dash – nice work on the PB, long time coming that one! Have to say, I think you would look excellent in that dress, not sure about the pearl necklace though………..
Kelly – excellent work at Hartlepool, seems you are heading in the right direction. Look forward to seeing what you can do on a lucky day. The race yesterday was on my clubs championship list, so you probably saw a few T&SH, had planned on running it myself.
Top work on the Silver Salver grabbing Curly, enjoy the taper.
Nice solid effort there Mr V. Have you thought some more about doing some shorter distance stuff considering the advice you were given when away on your training camp?
Phil – good to see you enjoying the taper. I always thought I would enjoy the taper period, I take it the legs are feeling good now?
Managed a full hour on the treadmill last night to bring up 29 treadmill miles for the week + some other x-training stuff. No discomfort so I think it’s about time I tested the waters with a run outside. I think it will be a while before I am pain free running outside as I do feel the odd twinge in the hamstring area. For example yesterday out walking in the country, when pushing juniors buggy up hill on a rough track I felt it ache a bit.
So, the plan is to trot very slowly to a sports field and do a few slow laps of that on grass and build from there. As there is no discomfort on the treadmill I might start throwing in the odd steady session in now, just to alleviate boredom and hopefully start to get the fitness needle working in the right direction again. Should help me get back to full speed a bit sooner once I am running outside pain free.
Got my first ever Pilates class tonight, should be interesting, hopefully it helps with the rehab.
I'll try and keep this one shorter following my mammoth post the other day!
Nice silverware Curly congrats! Strong 3 miler too...sub 20 minutes 5k in the summer post Brighton???
Well done on the 5 miler Kelly sounds pretty solid considering how you have been feeling!
Same to you Dash - nice PB there considering how long you have been back in training...what does your normal week currently consist of other than dress collecting and Aspell for race fuel?
Solid and well planned 10k race by the sounds of it Mr V!
BBB - indeed consolodating that 28 mile week sounds good! Less chance of feeling fatigued/getting injured? And what Parkrun do you run at?
Cannes - nice place for a marathon and combined trip Vellooo! I am thinking of running the Amsterdam marathon next year if Brighton goes well. Was thinking of entering it this year but think Brighton will be enough for now, that's if it goes better this time!
Any further running more recently Alehouse?
iower - going to try the knee brace this week by the way! For info BTW on the Netley Abbey 10K, it's a fastish course but not the best PB course IMO...although if you have never been (apologies if this is info you already know/have been to Netley before) it's a real nice Country Park to visit! The incline over 3 laps and sharp 90 degreee turns in places can shave some seconds off! But in saying that, sub 40 could be on the cards going by the 5K improvement!
Thanks for that feedback Phil and enjoy the taper - had a curry last night actually so will take that on board I think and stick with pasta and rice from Wednesday evening onwards. I am going to take your idea on steak and mash or something similar for Saturday evening!
Indeed YD - that's pretty much spot on there...what with my longer runs totalling what they have done (a few 17's one 18 (with a Parkrun beforehand), 1X20, 1X22 for time on feet), I think the endurance will be key over the last 6 miles in particular! Hoping some of the midweek longer runs will have helped too...that's if the knees stay steady this time!
Pilates eh? Interesting indeed! Hope that goes well too!
YD - Good treadmill discipline as ever. When I felt comfortable I wasn't tweaking anything, I think "tempo-lite" was my progression plan on the treddy, so something like 15-20mins @ MP might break things up and get a sweat on without caning it. I'm pleased to report that my legs feel mighty strong and niggle-free. Glutes are a little stiff but nothing a bit of stretching and 13 days (
) of winding down won't sort out.
BBB - What YD said. If you're gonna push anything at this stage, push the easy miles rather than any quality.
WJH - Good plan. Everyone always seems to be "pasta pasta pasta" the day before a marathon as if it's some magical running fuel, but really whatever you enjoy (and are used to eating and has carbs in) is your best bet. My thoughts are also turning to carb-load period which will most definitely involve extra bowls of cereal, and Soreen malt loaf with raspberry jam. (And pasta, probably.) Mmmm! In the mean time... Must. Stay. Focused.
The spinning instructor failed to show up at lunchtime but I'm pleased, and impressed, to say that some of my fellow gym bunnies were determined and focussed enough to get the iPod out, put on some cheesy tunes and crack on anyway! Think I managed to work at about 95% of normal level even without someone shouting at me, which probably works out quite well for a taper session.
I have to fit it all in around a weird shift pattern so it's subject to change at short notice depending on how tired I am.
Don't have a clue regards mileage ( tried logging it but got bored very quickly) but know I need to do more especially with the long run which compared to you lot is pretty pathetic!