P + D training for VLM 2013



  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    +1 for the High 5 isogels.  I've gone for the citrus ones and they seem OK (yet to find a gel that tastes good!). I've always found that High 5 give you more carbs per sachet than the equivalent SIS product and are a British company, whereas SIS are US (not really relevant but sways a tight decision).

    Just wondering if anyone else just uses pockets rather than belts?  I'll be running the marathon in a pair of my baggier training shorts as they have side pockets.  After wondering how I'd carry my gels, I loaded the pockets with 6 gels for my last 20+ miler and found I didn't really notice them, so I stopped worrying about belts and decided to run in the training shorts. The plan is to take a gel every 4 miles (roughly every half-hour for me) and possibly supplement with the lucozade drink on the course.

    I've tested Clif shot blocks during training and quite like them, but I wasn't happy chewing at race pace so reverted to gels. My plan is to chomp on a couple of bloks prior to the marathon (more to calm nerves more than anything else!) and finish the packet as a post-race boost.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    My post-race boost will involve flapjacks. image

    You wouldn't get pockets that useful in women's shorts.

  • I'll be using SIS as well. Was planning on taking one every 4 miles (before the lucozades which are every 5 mile), so 6 in total. Will also have one before the start and take an emergenncy one. I don't like carrying a belt, so I'll shove a couple in my tight under shorts, a couple in main shorts zip and the rest will be shoved down my sweat bands on my arm. I'll be a like a pack horse, which should hopefully slow me down and stop me going off too fast! 

    At the end I am going to continue running / crawling to the nearest Wagamamas and will eat my body weight in teryaki beef noodles. And a bottle of red! 

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Chris J77 wrote (see)

     and will eat my body weight in teryaki beef noodles. And a bottle of red! 

    I'd be more impressed by this but I know you don't weigh very much.

  • I'll give it a go! Incidentally I did my last long run today (had a wedding yesterday). 18 miles done and dusted at 6.40 pace and it felt steady. Please dont tell me off NN! No idea what's going on with that pace. And am totally confused as to what pace to go for come race day.

    On a boring note, I even stayed sober at yesterday's wedding to demonstrate to myself how seriously I am taking this bloody marathon. There is not much worse than being in a room full of drunken people (including your wife) at 1 am completely sober. Oh and then having to drive them home! I'm going to make up for it in epic style after London!
  • Good discipline Chris, and good thoughts on post mara eating and drinking.  The problem I have found previously though is not really being either hungry or wanting to drink alcohol.  I said that is a problem, do I have a problem with food and alcohol, blimey these marathons make you take a deep hard look at yourselfimage

  • My plan after a marathon is usually to eat my body weight in junk food and then drink 6 months worth of alcohol but I'm usually too tired to do either!

    Chris- I might have a couple of quid on you to win London image
  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Post race I'll dive into a milkshake, then lucozade original.  They are the recovery drinks of champions* ......and me**

    *may not be true


  • Just been looking at long range forecasts and it looks like its going to warm up a bit.

    This site is saying 25c!


    Hope the link works.
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Chris - unless your planning on racing at 5.40 pace that is suicidal two weeks outimage

    A tiring 15 for me in the low 8s yesterday. Unpleasant but good to run on what were tired legs

    Whos got the list? It must be time to update with name, number, start, Target and attire so we can recognise each other amongst the throngs

    Sis Gels for me, no belts - one every 5-6 miles.

  • Lit - I actually preferred the High 5 to SiS but I can take them too. If you don't want them I'll certainly take them off your hands

    I've found that by the time I've done the marathon I'm not usually that interested in food and have to force it down and definitely can pass on the wine which is unusual. I have to say tho' that the more marathons I do the less this seems to be a problem image

    Stutyr - the stuff I wear for racing doesn't even have a key pocket which is why I seldom wear these shorts for training.

    Men - I have no idea where the list has gone

  • Men - Definately not suicidical (I hope). Although bizarrely I am running for a low key suicide bereavement charity. I jast ran it by feel. To be honest I think I just have one gear in training. I know I'm not very good at slowing down as much as I should. Its just one of those things. Some people can train slow and step up pace on race day. I can't. But I can train closer to race pace and not suffer so badly in terms of recovery. I've learned not to stress about it. Hopefully there is still time for a nice long taper now. Massage booked in tomorrow to give the legs a once over and then its just mainly easy miles. No more racing and no more long runs. Hurrah!

    Mark - that weather forecast looks ominous. I did feel a bit more sweaty at the end of yesterdays run and the temp was only 7 degress. Anything in the 20s on race day is going to be a killer - esp after all this training in the cold that we have done. Mind you, I wouldn't want to be a weather forecaster in this country at the moment - it wouldn't suprise me if it snowed on April 21st!

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    You know yourself best Chris and your training has been high geared all the way through and tends to run against emperical evidence. The Full is a differently tempered mistress to the shorter stuff though. I would kill to have your speed and if I had it I would apply it differently. We (the thread) expect, nay demand a stirling performance from you come the day! With a proper taper you must be thinking around the lower end of 2.50s though surely?

  • I still have no idea to be honest. Like you say, the full is a different mistress and I think you need to do one first before you can race one. So I have no plans to do anything stupid (hopefully). If it was a 20 miler I would gladly go off at 6.30 pace and try and hold on to the end. I reckon I probably could just about for 20 miles. But not for 26.2. So I'm going to stick to the original plan of nice and easy and see if I can get to the end unscathed. If I manage to get over the line without bonking, I'm pretty sure I will want to come back and do another one (never thought I would say that) and race the second time around. London is all about learning and finishing for me I think. On a positive the training has seriously kicked the arse out of my shorter distance PBs!  

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    All this talk of mistresses is a bit risqué for a Tuesday morning. image

    Mennania wrote (see)

    Whos got the list? It must be time to update with name, number, start, Target and attire so we can recognise each other amongst the throngs


    We might be better off with a new list (just for VLM) if you want to add number, start & vest colour etc., cos that wasn't on the old version anyway. Pre-VLM I think it's just Tenjiso at Brighton, right? And then the Manchester etc. people can tell us their stalking details later.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Started and will put in missing bits later - Yes is in answer to going to Chandos after race?

    Mennania(Johnny) - Bib no tbc - Green - Black with Clic Sargent shirt - sub 3hr - Yes

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    I won't make it to Chandos as my family are insisting on taking me out for a delicious late lunch and copious amounts of wine. I know, poor me.


    Mennania(Johnny) - Bib no tbc - Green - Black with Clic Sargent shirt - sub 3hr - Yes
    Literatin (Katie) - 283 - Blue - Nasty white club vest with two blue hoops - 3:15 - No


  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Anyone trird Beet it shots - currently on sale on web at 1.14 each. Any good?

  • Men - someone mentioned a while ago that they had tried them although I think there was a question about whether really improved performance. Don't suppose its likely to do any harm tho'

    Mennania(Johnny) - Bib no tbc - Green - Black with Clic Sargent shirt - sub 3hr - Yes
    Literatin (Katie) - 283 - Blue - Nasty white club vest with two blue hoops - 3:15 - No

    Fiona -Number tbc- green-green surgical scrubs, white coat and Heart UK vest - sub 4-No

    I won't make it either after as I'm going to the charity thingy.

  • i'm doing a 10k race this coming Saturday, before my 16mi long run on Sunday.
    The race is in the P&D plan, but given that it's 15 days before the marathon (Manchester) how hard should I be running this? Should it be a best-effort, all-out race? Or should I pace it a little more comfortably to avoid injury or fatigue?

  • Just done my 7 miles + 8x100 m strides now demolishing lunch! I purposely came into work early so I could run at lunchtime as I slept in this morning and didn't have time for run before work but could get in early. It really makes the afternoon short. image

  • AG - I did a 5K race all out last weekend and I think NP raced 10K. I guess it is up to you whether you think you need a race or are more concerned about the possibility of injury. I don't imagine that it will be a problem not to bother. In fact that is the only race I've done all plan.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    AG - I raced mine 14 days out as did several on here, but if after  a couple it isnt right or you donr feel comfy turn it into a PMP effort.

  • Yeah. Give it a good go AG. A better runner friend of mine advised me to go all out in my 10k effort in case things go horribly wrong on marathon day. At least now I have a big 10k pb to show for all the marathon training if it goes wrong on marathon day. You should have plenty of time to recover from the 10k in time for the marathon. Remember you have been following P and D and therefore 6 miles is just a warm up! Go smash it. Just be sure to go easy the following day(s) if you are still feeling it.

  • thanks for the advice chaps and chapettes,

    I got a 10k PB 2 and a half weeks ago (48:14) which i was pleased with, knocked 7 mins off my previous time. I'll go out around the same pace, and see how I feel. If it's not feeling good I can slow down to marathon pace and treat it as a MP training run. If I manage to hold on and feel strong I'll see if I can shave a few seconds off the last time.


  • I have a 10K this Sunday, supposed to be Saturday, but with Wife working and the fact that I cant find a local 10k on Saturday, Sunday will have to do.  I am absolutely going to go flat out and give all I can. Someone mentioned Beet Shots, where were they for this price, i've been looking at getting some beet concentrate to mix with water, heard some very good things on its results.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    I don't believe in eating or drinking things that aren't actually enjoyable, as a general rule (energy gels being a reluctant exception), but I did have some grated beetroot in vinaigrette for lunch. YUM. No idea if it does anything, though. It's one of those things where you will never be able to pinpoint any exact effect because there are too many other variables.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Four miles today with middle two miles at marathon pace.  At least it was something image

    Otherwise, I'm just generally cacking myself now.  

    Only one more run before I head down to Brighton.  Serious obsession with the weather begins tomorrow.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Web site for beet it shots is auravita. Cheepest for everything and do packs of six SIS Isotonic gels for £5.50 means you can mix n match and get caffeine ones if you want. Delivery was £4 but still cheaper than alternatives.

  • Has anyone started thinking about what they're going to do after their marathon? I think most people on here are runnnig London, with a few doing Brighton this weekend, and some (including me) doing Manchester or Milton Keynes a week or two after.

    So how many of you are planning your next Marathon, or put your feet up and do nothing for a couple of months, or do some shorter, faster races over the summer (that's my pick) or another sport, or something else entirely?

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