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The Middle Ground
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London countdown is really on now.
WJH – Seems you finally managed to get your post in! Will be interesting to see your splits. Did you feel at the end that you could have gone faster if you’d been more aggressive with your pacing? Or do you think you benefited from a cautious first half?
Curly – I’d be tempted to pay £15 to not have to run the Town Moor marathon
Simon – I’m going to predict you a 17.27.... With a sub 17 to come later in the year.
YD – Hope you get a Yorkshire marathon spot. I’d love to fit enough to race you as unlikely as that may be! (That’s if I can ever get past these endless issues and manage a block of consistent training)
I had to abandon my run last night after 2 miles as my legs just had no strength at all (I’m cutting most runs short at the moment). A bit of weird feeling actually, as though they were going to give out under me. However there was no tiredness, tightness or achiness at all. Also cardio wise I feel ok. My legs refuse to go much under 7m/m pace at the moment but that feels pretty easy cardio wise. I know it’s not accidental glutening as I’m being very careful and the symptoms feel somewhat different to what I had before anyway. However I do think it has something to do with my diet as I’m now reacting to a range of other foods as well. In fact most meals leave me nauseous and looking like a pregnant woman.... I do wonder if the weakness may be due to nutritional issues (veggie and gluten free is kind of limiting) so I’ve bitten the bullet and decided to go back to meat. Hopefully this will help! (although it doesn’t explain all these new reactions to previously ok foods)
Brighton marathon race report at long last!
The preparation leading up to it was just about perfect. Hotel booked, etc....nothing forgotton, picked up the number before 6pm and even tested out the gale along the seafront the Saturday afternoon all for my email for picking my number to blow out my hands! I was lucky that it didn't get further away than it did! Meal wise was plenty of carbs and pasta from Thursday to Saturday afternoon and I took Phils tip to eat a less carb concentrated dinner that evening....ended up in a Harvester close to the seafront and had steak with mash and potatoes and potato skins as a starter.
Anyway, had an average nights sleep but good sleep last week so wasn't overly concerned...managed to get an early breakfast in...although in moving my stuff to the car prior to the start (stayed very close to the start area) I managed to throw up due to the overpowering smell of some cooked chicken pieces I had the previous afternoon with the leftovers remaining in the car! Opps indeed!
Anyway as for the race....as Curly has said, it was rather congested at the start but in a way this helped me out in getting into a groove with the pace! I wore a knee brace in case I had another repeat meltdown...but within the first half a mile I found it quite annoying so pulled it down to my shins and it thankfully remained there for the rest of the race. One schoolboy error though was the forgetting to apply Vaseline. Having remembered this after 10 miles or so, I soon realised why it was needed...the mistake was even noted by some of our club supporters! Luckily there was little resulting pain from this oversight!
So splits we as follows;
8:16, 7:58, 7:53, 7:39, 7:48, 7:55, 7:48, 7:49, 7:47, 7:55, 7:50, 7:47, 7:25, 7:30 (got a buzz from running back along the main support on Grand Avenue over these two miles), 7:45, 7:49, 7:33, 7:44, 7:24, 7:34 (overtook two club colleagues over these two miles which let the adrenaline kick in), 8:00, 8:07, 8:20, 8:21, 8:04, 7:47 and 7:00 for the last remaining 0.37 miles recorded on the Garmin!
The negative split was not due to running back along the seafront...was definitely slowed down by the wind and was also tiring by then too! However, it was really satisfying to overtake quite a few people along the way having started in the blue pen!
Mr V - I possibly could have started off a bit quicker in the earlier miles but I am glad I didn't because of the lack of very long runs compared to Curly (as reflected in her faster time despite slowing a bit) and because the faster mile splits felt quite hard to sustain. Overall though I was delighted to finish this one in one piece! The only negative thing was an argument with someone about 16 miles in where I was accused of running in front of someone (not got eyes in the back of my head though as I answered back) which then turned into a few verbal exchanges each way but appreciate we were both probably in the zone!
I was going to wear the HR monitor before the start, but took the decision not to as it didn't feel comfortable under just the vest...at least for this one off occasion! I need to wear it more and get used to it (also noticed a high HR recently on the first mile in adding to that previous discussion). In the end I just ran by pace and settled into what I had generally been achieving in key sessions (i.e. 7:40-7:55 or so). It seemed to work but obviously I have not converted my HM time from March into a faster time. That said, the negative split made up for this!
.....
...have to say that I have not felt that tired in the days following the race...very achy calfs on Sunday for a few hours but nothing a good stretch didn't sort out. Also (perhaps foolishly) played in a roller-hockey match on Monday evening although this didn't really seem to impact on things so much.
The legs feel more or less fine today but I still think it will be a good idea to take things gently at least until the weekend. I am heading to the gym in a bit to do some cross training on the bike and stepper...and then will think about getting out for a short easy run probably Friday evening!
YD - as for race plans over the coming months - that has reminded me of a few including the Gosport Golden mile near the beginning of June...better get the speed work in I think! Other than that, there is the Portsmouth 5k summer series starting on the last Wednesday of the month and then there is a 5 mile race in Cardiff Bay I will be doing in smackdown mode v's one of my brothers (who managed a sub 1:30 half off a few long runs last September
) and another club mate from my home town club (would be good to see him break 30 minutes!). Would like to do some of the remaining Hampshire Road Race League races if possible (either one or both of the Alton 10 and the Netley 10k which takes in part of my regular Parkrun course). Longer term it's the Cardiff half again in September...sub 1:25 is possibly a little greedy and optimistic but I guess having a goal is better than none at all.
May also enter a few relay races too if my club is entering any....problem is whether I will maintain the same motivation now Brighton is done and dusted...I do wonder how some of you keep going so the next few months will be a severe test on that for me! Hope your recovery is progressing further in the right direction by the way???
Mr V - I could never be a veggie. Apart from the fact I don't really like veg, mmmmm, bacon! Hope you get to the bottom of it soon.
Sunday's 10K was character building. Isn't that what they say? I really had no business running, I was still really ill with cold and cough. Was absolutely blowing a gale when I got there, way worse than Thirsk. It was a MT 10K held on a cliff top, two laps, and starting near the dunes of a beach. Was absolutely sand blasted at the start and finish and then out on the cliff top - utterly exposed.
As one of the miles ticked over, my pace was down to 10.30 at 0.20m into the next mile and I was bent double trying to stay upright. It wasn't a straight headwind, but just push, pull, sideways, constantly.
My epic time of 51.xx (don't even ask, ha), still got me a gold medal in the VAANEE Champs. I didn't even bother to look at the results, but quite sure I was the only member taking part
That was the only run I did last week and I haven't run since. 2 weeks of a probable chest infection, followed by a further week of the cough and very heavy cold and just to top it off... A nice addition of throwing up on Monday. This is the 4th week of illness. I'm wrecked. OH had to stay home, I couldn't take the kids to school, slept 11am-6pm and then still slept through the night.
Given the events in Boston on Monday it all seems very inconsequential though
Regardless of how I feel on Sunday, no doubt I'll still be lining up for the 5K Champs.
Good luck to all at VLM.
Minni - I think you had doubts over your planned marathon after the HM organisation? Are you sticking to that, or coming to TM?
Thanks Kelly!
x-post they are just above! Glad I have managed to get that done at last!!! Good luck with the 5K Champs and re: being a vegetarian I am with you on that one! Sorry Mr V! 
Sounds good! Tail off in the last few miles wasn't massive and just indicative of the relative lack of long runs and weekly mileage, which you knew going in. A great marker for the next one.
Runners can get a bit arsey, especially at that stage. I might swear under my breath and complain to myself at the effort of having to move around someone, who would be in the wrong of course
WJH - great report. Well done.
Kelly - yes, I'll more than likely end up there again. I thinking about a complete change over the summer though so it won't be a target marathon, more just a bit of fun. But there again both times I've done it I've ran really good times from no specific marathon training so maybe I should treat it a bit more serious.
WJH – Nice report there. Hope you can summon the motivation to set yourself a new goal now the mara is done. I’ve also had race rage in the past as well – though not instigated by me I might add!
Kelly – I was so glad I wasn’t doing the Sand Dancer given how windy it was. Rather you than me. Hope you are starting to feel better and are ok for Sunday.
I ran a hill session last night and actually felt ok. I had jelly legs on the jog home afterwards though I think that was just due to it being a tough run. The refuelled with some chicken. Felt very strange given its probably 2 years since I’ve last eaten any meat!
Si, Duck - Thanks for the advice, but, yes - target pace tonight is around 1 hour / LT pace, though not for the full 4 miles. After a mile's warmup, will progress the first mile at tempo up to approx HM pace, and then plan to hit and try to hold at approx. 7:20 pace for the next 3 miles (so, around 22 mins) before a final mile warm down. Appreciate it's a tough session, and is why it's a month since I've tackled it. Not sure I understand why I wouldn't necessarily get the desired training effect though, Simon - can you explain? I'm basically working to the theory at the moment that whilst I ration my hard sessions, I do ensure those sessions are hard, and try to include as much variety in all my runs as possible and thus give myself a wide range of training stimuli. So, over the last few weeks, amongst the easy and long stuff, I've included intervals, as well as some shorter tempo sessions, parkruns, a couple of other races, and plan to reintroduce a bit more hillwork over the weekend or early next week which I've overlooked recently. A periodic session like this does also give me the opportunity to track progress and particularly appeals to the stats geek side of my nature. Since starting some strengthening work, I've (touch wood) stayed healthy and even niggle free, and with progress generally continuing to be good I guess what I'm saying through all that waffle is that I'd need a bit more convincing as to why this session isn't a good idea!
And I'll go bold and predict 17:19 for your 5000m at the weekend, Simon...provided you lay off the burgers.
Mr V - Mmmmm, meat. The missus is a veggie so for the sake of simplicity, I do end up eating veggie most nights of the week too. Probably no bad thing though, and it does make me appreciate the meat all the more when I do have it! Good luck with getting your system back on an even keel, and glad to hear your session last night went well. Hope it's a corner turned.
Good report, WJH! Lots of hiccups along the way by the sounds of it to try to throw you out of your stride, but take them in your stride you did, so well done - and great work with those splits.
Kelly - Congrats on the gold - you've got to be in to win it.
WJH great race report - I suspect your slowing was due to the head wind as nearly everyone's splits I've seen suffer the same over the last miles from the power station to the turn into the final road (where it was slightly less in the face).
Its okay though they know I've only just done a marathon so arent expecting anything fast. Its just a marker for next time!
Your plans for the summer and beyond sound good - nice variety but a real target to aim for in Cardiff half. I would make that your next A race and use the other bits as training blocks, that should help keep the motivation up.
I still have to decide about the rest of my plans for the year, I'll let you know when I do. I have a slight cold (well a sore throat anyway), so am resting up but am starting to get twitchy now to go out tonight, but will use the N+1 rule and leave it till tomorrow. Legs are almost fully recovered now and I can cycle without ouch so thats a good sign I think.
Duck/Simon yes both elements I would like to work on for my next marathon.
Simon good luck for the 5000m - I've got a 400m race on Saturday
Kelly oh my you poor thing! Good to get a gold medal though - you can only beat who turns up after all
Mr V sorry about your problems continuing - you have been tested for gluten havent you? Its just if you are having problems absorbing things its likely you will be deficient in multiple nutrients and vitamins as well which could be leading your legs to be wiped out.
Mace lol that doesnt sound like a good running style to me but I'll take it as a compliment. I was running at that point with my other half, who met me later on in the race as I slowed down! How did you do?
Curly, it's meant as a compliment
... you looked effortless
My chip was 3:16:52 , with about 1min positive split. There's some grim buggers in this lot especially hanging on at the end
http://www7.marathon-photos.com/scripts/photo.py?event=Sports/CPUK/2013/Brighton%20Marathon&photo=SEBO0841&bib=8669
WJH - fantastic ....well done!
You, Curly and Mace just need to be sensible now ... I felt invincible after my last mara and ended up very badly injured a few weeks later. Take some time to recover properly.
Never had a mid race rage incident. I once got annoyed by someone draughting me on a windy day, so I pulled out and told him it was his turn, he obliged.
)
Good time as well, 1 min positive split is good going, well done.
Vellooo – that sounded like a respectable Half Marathon performance in windy conditions the other day.
Duck – same comment I made to Velloo, wind is a bugger. Stop slagging Perth off, I have family there (the McHoldsworth’s
Simon – that 3,000m time was decent considering you’re a fatty.
Mr V – welcome to the world of meat, oh err. Offal is where it’s at these days…….
Good news the session went well last night. As for the Yorkshire Marathon, yep me too, I quite fancy it now, think it will take a while for me to build up though. If I get in, we should meet up for a couple of long runs when I am up North or you are down visiting your folks. I know some good routes near Sutton Bank that will get you strong, also some good running around the Helmsley area.
Kelly – hope the cold and caugh clear soon. You are made of tough stuff running when under the weather, I wouldn’t run, but I am a wimp.
WHJ – enjoyed the report and well done on some good pacing. That slow first mile was probably a blessing.
As for your next set of targets, I would just have a few weeks of just running without a serious focus. After a while you will be chomping at the bit to get back into it and chasing times again. From that list there are plenty of good options for you to go at.
Impressed with your recovery, expecially considering you played roller hockey on Monday!
As for my recovery see bellow:
Last week I reported feeling a bit blergh. Well it developed into a sore throat, high temperature feeling crap type thing. So no running from last Wednesday through to Tuesday this week. On Tuesday I ran 2.6 miles outside, felt horrible (virus sweating out) but leg ok.
Yesterday lunchtime I ran 3 miles outside with some hills and 5 miles on the treadmill last night. No complaints from my leg, but I tired quite a bit towards the end of the 5 miler. So plenty work to do…..
Plan is to rest today with some core work tonight; then test the leg a little bit more with a slightly longer run outside on Friday 3.5 - 4 miles. I will probably do something a bit more testing on the treadmill over the weekend, tempo lite type run and then take it from there.
X-post Mace, some good neck gurning there. You may have invented a new category of gurning
YD - "neck gurning" ... love it
and thanks
Well done Mace - was that a pb? Good pacing there (unlike me
)
jog/hobble is a bit more like it.
LOL about neck gurning!
Good news about the return YD seems like the illness might have come at the right time to help you ease back in.
Dont worry Dr Dan I'm taking lots of rest, no plans for target races until the 10k on 19th May only done two runs so far of 20 minutes. In fact "run" might be a bit generous
Just spotted the videos - I do run like a race walker!!! Oh dear - especially clear on the 21km one:
http://www7.marathon-photos.com/scripts/event.py?new_search=1&event=Sports/CPUK/2013/Brighton Marathon&match=1593&camera=3501&lap=0#video
Curly, first one so yes it was a pb
How wonderful to cross the finish line with your other half
And i guess you must be pretty evenly matched ....
A triumph of Hadd training.
YD – I think offal might take some building up to
Hopefully your enforced week off will actually benefit your leg. I’m defo up for a couple of long runs once we get to mara prep time.
Curly – Recovery looks to be going well for you. Good luck with the 400 – will be nice to get a base time you can then smash later in the year.
Mace – Excellent pacing there and some half decent gurns as well!
Got myself a week's worth of antibiotics, so hopefully it will take a hike and let me get back to running.
Curly - I'd rather look like a race walker than a shuffling elephant like me
Mace - superb pacing, especially for a first time marathon. Do you have any other race times?
YD - sounds promising for recovery, apart from the cold.
Mr V - talking of bacon last night reminded me I had some prosciutto in the fridge so I had that and poached eggs for tea. It was delicious!
Dr Dan - how are you doing? How is the foot?
Take care with the chest infection.
YD - Not much luck for you at the moment - hope you get back out there today.
Great vid, Curly! Slight refinement to the technique, plenty of training, and it's off to Rio for the 20km walk for you!
Kelly - The antibiotics should sort you out, probably already having an effect? As a regular sufferer, I usually feel much better in myself within a day, and the chest begins clearing after a couple. Can't believe you raced with it though?! Crazy in the coconut.
Great result, mace - well done!
Interesting session last night. Breezy warm up heading down to the Trent, turned on to the riverside itself, and WHAM - straight into the teeth of a 25mph westerly. Rendered the individual splits pretty meaningless, but felt like about the right level of effort throughout. 7:55 for the first mile, target 7:41, and was then after around 7:20 pace for the next three. Failed miserably still struggling into the wind for the first mile at 7:34, crossed the bridge to double back on myself about half way through the second, 7:23, before the wind finally helped a bit for much of the third mile in 6:54. Averages out at just below 7:17 pace for the 3 key miles with Mcmillan predicting 7:16 LT pace off my 21:13 5k time. Pleased with that - good session, was hard but didn't leave me feeling wrecked, certainly much easier than the last time I attempted a similar session at a noticeably slower pace a month ago. Legs in decent shape today, though it's a rest day anyway. Sportsmans' dinner with the cricket club for a now rare big session on the booze tonight. First time most of the lads will have seen me since I lost over two stone, and expecting lots of amusement and not inconsiderable ridicule when I tell them I'm trying to turn myself into a runner!
Enjoy tonight.
I'm sure his plain speaking of the undeniable truth doesn't make him love you any less, Kelly!
P.S. Just got myself 4 tickets for the family and I for the Sunday of the Anniversary Games at the Olympic Stadium this summer.
Sounds like an excellent session Bob. Increasing paces (wind or no) as the session progresses is always a good sign. Enjoy the Sportsmans’ dinner tonight.
Good luck with the antibiotics.
Curly – will check the speed walking video out late.
Kelly – stubborn, never
4 mile run for me this morning, felt ok, no problems whatsoever at the back of the knee or any of the other spots on the hamstring that have been an issue recently.
I was getting a flicker or a feeling, call it a phantom or extra tiredness in my adductor (I think it’s the Garcilis in this case not the main adductor muscle) and top of the thigh / hip flexor area (Sartorius maybe – sorry been googling ).
My theory is that as a result of all the strengthening and re-alignment work I have done these muscles are being used in a slightly different way to before. I think it will just be a case of building up slowly. its just these muscles are working slightly differently since the injury.
Oh and 8:00/mi pace felt like hard work, I have a lot of fitness to get back!
Kelly well that does make sense re: coughing and chest infection, usually the anti b's kick in after 4 doses or so, and please remember N+1 for your return to running!
Nice work on your session though well done on slogging that out in the wind. Mighty fine improvement over such a short space of time (can all you newbies stop beating my times please 
)
I'm off out for a little jog in a mo - legs have felt fine since yesterday and cold is fine too so going to see how they are before my 400m tomorrow
BBB cheeky buggar
YD that sounds promosing, except the over googlingitis, fitness will come back quickly as you know.
Sooo, have made a decision, with Moraghan to not do an autunm mara this year and just plough straight through to VLM next year. The main thinking being to do with training weeks versus recovery weeks. If I want to get where I want to be by April, its easier off more training (obviously) but every marathon requires at least 7 weeks of reduced or no training so its better for me to practice pacing in other ways and train in those weeks instead.
Definitely up for Gosport as the A target for the autumn as well - WJH you can pace me to a decent time
Howdy peeps!
Kelly - Still going through the wars. Get well soon!!
YD - No idea on your theory but sounds like progress of a sort. At least you've managed to avoid the turbo.
Curly - Good plan. I really enjoy a target HM without a marathon to worry about, just seems to hit my sweet-spot of training intensities vs volume. Depending on how friends and club mates' mid/long term social/training plans pan out, my next marathon after VLM could be Berlin '14.
Aaaah, carb load time! This afternoon (on top of my usual lunch and fruity snacks) I will mostly be eating a pesto pasta salad, 12 Jaffa cakes, and possibly an extra bowl of cereal, depending on how the Jaffa cakes go down. Tomorrow's mid-morning extra cheeky snack will be a Soreen malt loaf with lashings of raspberry jam. This all adds up to an extra carb calorie count of... actually I haven't got a feckin' clue, but I reckon it'll do the job.
Bob, your session looks fine, my point is that there can be a few problems with spending too long at a certain training pace: 1) harder sessions take longer to recover from, 2) the longer you spend at a pace the higher the intensity and the likelihood that you are running too hard (this is mitigated if you run to HR, rather than pace) 3) Running form can suffer because of fatigue and loss of alertness.
Any ideas what you'll manage for the 400?
I think that a good approach to a session is to try and spend as long as possible at an intensity while minimising the amount of stress. In fact, this is the principle behind interval sessions. The approach is widely taken with VO2 max training but it doesn't seem so often with threshold training.
My favourites:
WU; 20' @ T; 15' jog; 15' @ T; CD
WU; 3 x 1 mile @ T with 1' jog recovery; 15' jog; 2 x 1 mile with 1' jog recovery; CD
With these session I can spend 5-6 miles running at threshold intensity, but the recoveries ensure that I am not over-stressing myself and can recover quite well.
I managed to get a couple of tickets for the Sunday too, but the whole ticketing process was an absolute joke. I'm going to just boycott ticketmaster from now on and anybody that associates with them.
Mr V, it does sound like it could be diet-related given your restrictions. Do you plan to seek professional nutritional advice? Hope you're enjoying the meat. I was vegetarian for a few years (trying to impress a girl at college - it didn't work). When I went back to meat I had a salmon salad one day, then it was KFC the following and a kebab not long after. Dunno if that'd help your running though.
YD, I would have thought it more likely you have adjusted your gait (unconciously or not) to try and avoid pain and that's the cause.
Curly, I think race walkers take both feet off the ground more often