P + D training for VLM 2013



  • andrews148andrews148 ✭✭✭

    I'm due to start a P&D 55-70 in June for an October marathon. I've been running a 20miler every 8 days for the last few weeks, so was thinking of swapping the P&D's scheduled long run for a 20 each week.

    Is that sensible, or should I stick to their plan?

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭
    Fiona J wrote (see)

    I always wondered how you figured out what length of intervals to do and now I know.

    The interval section in the book is really interesting. I can't wait to get cracking image. Sounds like some seriously hard work though image.

    Andrews148 - that sounds like overkill to me, but I'm at the slow end of the spectrum, so I'll defer to those with greater experience to answer your question.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    andrews148, you'll have more luck getting an answer on the P&D autumn thread that most people have moved over to.

    Personally, I'd go with the plan but thats more to get a variety of runs rather than repeating the same thing every week.  It'll also depend on how much other running you do (and have done), as the long run is normally preceded by a number of other sessions so you start the LSR fairly tired.  Therefore you may be glad of the slightly shorter run on some of the weeks

  • Andrews 148 - some of the weeks are cut back weeks to allow for recovery and others substitute marathon paced sessions for a LSR which I definitely would not substitute.

    Ten - and you didn't think the last one was hard work??

  • andrews148andrews148 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I think I'll do 20s for the first 6 weeks (the endurance mesocycle) as the long runs there are proceeded by an easy 5 and followed by a rest day. After that I'll stick to the plan.

    I've done just over 1,000 miles this year. Currently 64 miles over an 8 day rotation with two 8 or 9mile speedwork sessions, a medium long 12 and long 20, sandwiched between easy 5s and a rest day. (Works out 56 miles a week long term)

  • brer rabbitbrer rabbit ✭✭✭

    Hey Also Ran, I see you had a stormer of a run from MK thread-well done buddy. I went for rice pudding tin with added sultanas included-I reckon that's what did it and got me a pb 2 weeks after VLMimage. It was nothing to do with P/D, or hundreds of miles of trainingimage

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Sultanas duly noted for the next one image (and by that I mean for the next rice pudding, not for the next marathon)

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Fiona - when I did my VO2max sessions I ran them at the prescribed pace based on racing and targets, but my heart rate did not reach 91-94% HRR. However, I didn't change the paces because I didn't want to risk injury in the run up to the marathon. Now, I know I need to up the pace to hit the right heart rate range. That scares me, but I also can't wait to try image 

    Have you noticed the differences in heart rate ranges in the table on pg60, as compared to the Advanced Marathon ranges in 2nd Edition pg 19? VO2Max are given as 95-98% HRR in one, and 91-94% HRR in the other, for example. I'm not quite sure what to make of this (anomaly?).

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    1st edition has 93-98...

  • StewartCStewartC ✭✭✭


    It might not be an anomally, doesn't Advanced marathoning describes the VO2Max sessions to be run at 5k pace, maybe the other book you'll need to run them faster to train for shorter races??

  • Ten - On the whole I didn't find the VO2 sessions that bad compared to the MP sessions or the LT sessions. I hadn't actually looked at the HR ranges to see if they were the same yet.  You could explain the top end being higher by saying the pace range is 3K-5K pace but that wouldn't explain why the bottom would be different or that there was no overlap between the 2. image I guess they just probably changed there mind a bit as they seem to do that between versions let alone different books.  I don't suppose it will make that much difference.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Thanks Lit (I think image)

    Stewart - I thought the same at first, but the table is in a general section on optimal training, and not specifically geared to 10K training. Nonetheless, I guess this is probably the reason, since the later book is geared specifically towards the marathon while the former caters for 5k to marathon. I suppose there probably isn't too much danger that I'll run the intervals too fast in any case image, but I'll go with the range given in the road racing book.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Thanks Fiona.

    You're right, it's probably of no consequence. Just a bit intriguing why it changes. When are you starting your half marathon training?

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    VO2 less important for marathon training....and so 5k pace for 600m to 1600m intervals is enough, any quicker and could be a bit knackered for the more important sessions. For shorter distances like 5k or 10k VO2 more important...and so can push it more, i.e. a bit quicker.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    5m recovery done this morning on the treadmill. I've had to shuffle the schedule a bit due to workload.

  • Ten - Well if I was to do 14 weeks it would be next week image I'm planning on finishing the next couple of weeks of mesocycle 5 and then jump into the plan at week 12 which should be about the same mileage.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Fiona - what race you targetting next?

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Nice one Fiona. Glad I'm not the only one doing Mesocycle 5.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    I'm doing Mesocycle 5! Just replacing 'recovery' with 'race'. Still begins with an R.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Yes. Or just an unusually fast 5-mile recovery. Followed by an unusually fast 10k GA run on Sunday...

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I'm doing mesocycle 5 also...am more closely following the 85mi schedule though...I'm hoping to be running 50mi/wk by end of may and early june before the next blooming schedule starts!

  • 15W - I'm going to do the Blackpool half in 1st Sept. I got my PB there last year and plan an assault on it this time. As long as its not really windy it's a good course.  I pb'd by 4 mins last year but definitely faster now so maybe sub 1:45 is possible.

    Lit - only you could consider recovery and race to be similar!

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    3 letters in common, Fiona...

    Edit: only ME? Coming from the woman who did another marathon on a whim the week after VLM?

  • Well I didn't consider it recovery did I .image

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    8m GA with Strides today. Enjoyable session, and my knees felt fine this time so I was able to go a bit faster than last week. I can't believe it's been nearly four weeks since my marathon!

  • I know. I guess it adds about 1 min 20 sec to my time but still a huge PB. Poor show by the organisers tho'that they can't get the marshals in the correct spot. Only the guy that won did the correct course.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Actually that's always the irrational worry I have before doing any race: what if I don't know which way to go? And then I always tell myself that's stupid because I'm not going to be at the front. But in this case only the guy at the front got it right.

  • Lit - he was following the lead bike cycled by the bloke that measured the course! Unfortunately for the 2 chaps behind, he wasn't visible, but I don't suppose their places would be affected by 263m.

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