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The Middle Ground
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well i forced myself to the track to do my first tempo run. Hoping perhaps Simon (as he seems to be the resident threshold training expert) can tell me if it was a worthwhile effort-
I did 1 mile slow warm up then strides and stretches. Then did 2 miles aiming for 6.30 pace, came in at 12.57 mins so 6.28, then 1 mile slow then another 2 miles that also came in at 12.57 so fairly even pacing. I took my race pace from last 2 10ks which was about 6.31 min/mile but to compensate for fact i was running on a perfectly flat track, instead of going a bit slower than race pace i aimed to roughly match it. The second tempo actually felt stronger than the first one.
4 days of leisure now!
Tom I'm a member of a club but it's a very easy going one. We have 1 session a week, there are 3 groups to choose from. Some people just race for the club and never come to training, there's no issue with that. I'm really glad I joined a club as meeting and learning from other runners has been invaluable. You also get a lot more support if you are running in club colours!
It costs £15 a year to join.
Tom my club is very relaxed - there's no structured sessions. We meet three times a week and you just run with people who suit your pace. It costs £20 a year, or £10 if you only go once a week.
Well done Tom and DT.
Tempo inside 10k pace sounds tough though, DT! I know Simon advocates an interval between two blocks of a tempo run though, and the thorough warm up sounds sensible.
After the discussion yesterday, I decided to procrastinate no longer, and sent an e-mail yesterday evening to the local running club I was favouring.
Easy 6 or 7 miler on the cards for me tonight. Cricket tomorrow looking like a write off thanks to the weather though. Grrr.
Agree with the others Tom K! Get yourself signed up to a club! With many running clubs, it's down to you when you go to train - everyone has a different approach. I have probably averaged about 3-4 sessions a month at my club so far this year and one of my work colleagues races on occasion but has been to just one or two training nights in the past two years because of family commitments! Of course you get some clubs who take things a little more seriously than others and maybe have a slightly different set up so it may be worth checking club websites to see if they meet your aims (e.g. track training, quality runs/speed sessions timetable, evenings/days they run, any club championship, etc!). That's why I enjoy running because it's largely down to you as an individual and what you put into things. Totally agree with Bob's words on the team side of things though if you are able to score for your club in races too, etc, and you also feel part of something! It's also relatively cheap, for me at least when I consider my inline hockey fees are £30 a month and pay for some of our other matches seperately!
Glad I got the avatar changed Bob...the boat picture one was the only thing I could get to upload previously so glad it's an improvement (well sort of!) and maybe a little more relevant for the forum!
Looks a good session DT16 with consistent splits! May try that one myself sometime soon. Very close to the 6:26 m/m required for the sub 40!
Good luck with the 5k today CB!
Seems I had the wrong impression. Used to run for a club as a kid and you were almost expected to turn up every session. I guess adult clubs are more social and more relaxed. I'll definitely get myself down to one of them once I'm settled in Leeds. Googled it and already found a couple of clubs that look very friendly
Where abouts in Leeds will you be based TK?
Still been confined to cycling here but will do a test run at the weekend.
Tom - I haven't trained with my club in two years. Still very proud to wear my club vest and do take part in races, the XC league and help with marshalling club events, etc. Never been an issue.
Right, first of all the excuses!
On Weds I did an interval session, and on Thursday night I went out for an easy 10 miler. I was feeling rough from the start of the run, my throat felt like it was being rubbed with sandpaper and my stomach was turning somersaults. Stupidly I stuck with the run, only binning it after 8 miles! I struggled to get any food down, my stomach was cramping, and I was in bed for 8pm!
So 2 tough runs in 2 days before a race!
Friday I felt better, but during the warm up for Christleton my throat felt rough again and my stomach still didn't feel right.
The first mile went ok (6:54), then I started to struggle. The second mile was hard (7:16), and I was all set for slowing to a jog, but I kept telling myself "Just keep this effort up for another 33 breaths, that's 0.1 miles, then you can slow down. The third mile ticked by in 7:17, for a time of 21:46. (av pace 7:01 by my maths!)
Given the build up to the race I'm happy, and looking forward to the rest of the 5k season. I don't think I'm going to break any pbs this year (20:15), but compared with where I was 6 weeks ago it's great!
Delamere parkrun this morning, a gentle 30 mins forcing myself to run slowly, so latched on to a mother who was running with her 10 year old daughter, then a bloke who was recovering from a knee operation pushing his daughter in a buggy!
Chubby - How did you get on? Edit : X Post. Good to see some progress and don't write off PBs this year just yet. I wouldnt be surprised to see that time tumble soon especially as your build up didnt seem ideal with 2 tough runs coming before it.
Kelly - Not the most pleasant morning on the town moor was it!?
So who else braved parkrun this morning in the monsoon conditions? I ran 18.35 at Newcastle. Pretty muddy and windy as well which didn't make it any more pleasant. I was regretting wearing flats without grip as I navigated the offroad section. Splits of 6.16, 5.31, 5.55 shows which way the wind was blowing. Pretty happy with the run though. I think I'll try and head to a fast course in the next few weeks when conditions look good. I reckon with an all out effort I could probably just about clock a sub 18 now.
It was rather wet, wasn't it. I always enjoy those type of runs in a sadistic way, the rain was just lashing.
Going back to the old start for today reminded me why they needed to change it. I wasn't totally far back, but was still over 8m/m by 0.3m, could not move at all! It can't be pleasant to be overtaken by so many people, especially on a tight start, I don't know why people don't position themselves correctly. Same people every week.
DT, sounds like a good session to me. The idea of splitting them up is to get more quality in without killing yourself, so the best question to ask is how different do you think you would have felt had you done 4 consecutive miles at the same pace? For me it can be the difference between taking 1-2 days to recover and taking 3-4 days to recover.
(previous 2:09.98). Not worried about the pacing too much since it was my first of the season and I'll sort that soon enough. Very happy with how easy the first 400 felt. I reckon all that gym work and hill work has paid off and my top speed has improved a fair bit.
CB, well done. I agree you shouldn't write off the chance of PBs yet. You could very well see a massive improvement between that and your next race. Especially considering dodfy preparation and not feeling 100%.
Mr V, Moonsoon? It was lovely down here. Nice run. Mud and wind can make so much difference. I ran 18:50 a couple of months ago almost flat out in bad weather whereas the previous week I'd run 18:40 as a threshold run.
Kelly, I can't fathom it either. Surely they would learn after a couple of times.
I did an 800/1500 double today. The 800 was basically a time trial since 2nd place finished 12 seconds behind me. I went off a little bit fast and went through the first lap in 61 seconds! It didn't feel like that. Oh well. Started to tie up with 300 to go, which is not good news in an 800, but held it together somewhat for a shiny PB of 2:08.8
I was pretty tired during the 1500 a couple of hours later, but managed a 4:30.00, which isn't great, but not too bad for the second race of the day.
Simon
well done on the phone. Not surprised you were tired for the 1500.
The monsoon and mental start sounds fun Mr V and Kelly. It's been a tad chilly here but otherwise ok.
Evening everyone, popping in before I head off on holiday.
I spy a great 800 from Simon today - really well done
Not really surprised given your recent mile time. Something sort of unrelated but do you think improving LT (tolerance) helps with LT (threshold) at all?
BOB, remaining strong through that 4*1k session looks like things are coming together well.
Mr V, two good races in the past few days. Does sound like you need some quicker stuff now but it's a good place to be in.
Good tempo DT!
Cb, nice parkrun, I wouldn't rule anything out, the year isn't halfway over yet!
I've done 4 hard sessions this week and I'm feeling it! Friday was 900 + 800 + 400 (2'40.38, 2'18.8, 61.2). 400 felt like between 200 - 600 in an 800 so if I can split that I'd be very happy. Then did 2*500 this morning (1'13.5, 1'12.8). Feeling in good form, just wish I could race more. Have a mile on the 8th and an 800 on the 20th.
Anyway, good training everyone and I'll be back next weekend.
Here is me (164) looking shattered and very chubby!
Aah too much to catch up on, need to come on here more than once a fortnight! Quick catch up from today and i'll try and go through and respond to earlier posts (or pick up from here).
Is it me or have most of you gone and got new avatars?
Anyway, last run of the local road running league season today. 10k, new course to me, 3 laps, slight inclines and twisty. No plans for this one as it was the last race and I would've been happy to get round in a respectable time. So imagine my surprise when running to cross the line with the race clock around 10 seconds under my p.b. from Eastleigh! Crossed the line in 41:25 according to the watch (official results to be announced) and felt really good all the way round, and unlike Alton a couple of weeks ago could really push all the way to the finish, almost catching a fellow club member who's normally a couple of minutes in front of me. On the whole, not a bad day!
No excuses required, CB - good running. A bit off your PB perhaps, but you're in a far better place now than you have been at any point since I joined the thread - keep it going! Some training paces to work to now as well. Kudos to the old fella just in front of you in that pic! Similar story for MrV, I guess. Still a relative newcomer here, but I've appreciated the input from you both, so really pleased to see you both getting something back for yourselves again now. How did you get on yesterday, Kelly?
Simon continues to go from strength to strength - excellent stuff - top notch 800 time that!
More good training from Duck I see...that he's now going to undo in Paris!
Congrats on the PB, iower! If you felt good all the way round a 10k, you weren't trying hard enough though!
Got to be an indicator of real progress if you can PB by 10 seconds with that feeling mind.
No parkrun or racing for me this weekend. Aching today though after a lengthy partnership during cricket with a teenage whippersnapper that contained plenty of 2s and 3s and must qualify as speed work of sorts! Kept up with the little bugger though - I wouldn't have done in previous years when I was rather more lardy. Good win and half a chance of hanging on to my spot despite a ropey LBW decision in favour of the former First Class/List A bowler doing the appealing.
Went out for an easy 7 miles after work on Friday, that turned into more of a steady run after being fed by the anger of sitting in a traffic jam for half an hour thanks to a single tiny hole in the road.
Very comfortable run despite that, though could feel the shin grumbling by the end. Plenty of icing when I got back and again after cricket yesterday, and didn't feel it all during a predominantly easy 4 miles on grass today that I punctuated with 2 x 400ish faster sections up the inclines to ease the boredom of the lapping once I was loosened up somewhat.
So tempted by the prospect of concentrating on hanging on to the back of the shirt of a designated 20 minute pacer for as long as possible at the Colwick parkrun next week, but my next definite race is an evening midweek 5 miler in about 10 days. Will be my first bash at the distance. Just need to wrestle with the conundrum of managing the shin, whilst getting in some longer training runs without boring myself to tears with endless laps of grass fields to keep the impact down...there must be some decent off road routes nearby, but I don't know 'em!BBB - my run was so so. 22.5x, which I suppose I can't complain too much given the awful conditions and two months of basically no/rubbish running with the chest thing. I have 3 more days of antibiotics, but I'm just finishing the course, they definitely kicked the bug.
I have a 3000m track race tomorrow night, just for vets, should be...er, fun? I think it is 3 events for £3 so depending on schedule times, might do a 400m or something too. Quite sure I might be sick
Katie did her 1m run today and then she cycled 3.5m - while I ran, she kept going too fast, I was knackered, ha - to meet OH and the boys. She's doing a 14m (race) ride in a couple of weeks and then a 30m ride at the end of June. She is only going to be 8 in July. She'll manage the 14, but good luck to OH in getting her through 30
. I think I might have some competition from her soon. I've planted the seed with her about building her up to parkrun. Nothing at all to do with the fact that her birthday is on a Saturday this year.
Not been on for a while due to work and personal life getting in the way but still put in some training.
Good 5k effort Mr V in not the best conditions, would like to get a sub 18 5K under my belt but not sure I will get there this year. Good PB's for Simon E and Iower and Kelly well done on still running while feeling rough.
I ran a 10K race in Kent yesterday. Pretty pleased with 37:40 for 10th place on a slightly undulating course. Last mile was at 5:49 pace so possibly could have gone off a bit quicker. Due to the advice on here about VO2 max training i feel a lot stronger and sub 38 is now feeling relatively comfortable. Would love to get a 10K time starting with a 36 by the end of the summer.
Question on training, i have been doing 6X600 repeats with a 60 second rest at approx 5.25 pace for a couple of weeks. Should i try extending these to 6X1000 or continue with the current 6X600's?
Kelly – Great you’ve finally found some antibiotics that have worked for you. Surely you are due a good run of uninterrupted training now!!!
Bob – Glad the injury isn’t sidelining you. Do tread carefully though. I’ve fallen into the trap in the past of running when I should rest and ending up with a long term issue. It’s always best to take a few days off rather than risk something more serious.
Pittsy – My best 5k last year was 17.42 but I didn’t even break 38 for 10k (though I really should have). I would be surprised if you weren’t able to crack 18 this year. I’m also hoping to get a 36:xx in by the end of summer/ early autumn. I think I’ll need to be in that kind of shape if I’m going to run a sub 3 marathon. Good work on the 37:40 and the top 10 finish.
With regards the training question you certainly want to progress sessions over time rather than simply repeating the same workouts. If you switch to 1k reps though you will be lowering the intensity and thus changing the focus of the session. If you want to progress the session but keep the intensity the same I’d be inclined to add reps or reduce recoveries.
Thanks Mr V. I think i will add a couple more reps on for a few weeks and then look at reducing the recovery. My marathon time was 3hrs and 6 seconds with a 10K PB best of 37:21. I really should have gone under 3 hours but ran very naively. First 15 miles were at 2hr 49 pace and last 11 were all about hanging on! If i had gone out at 6.45 miles i think i would have dipped under the 3. For me it is the speed endurance and holding form which i will work on for my next marathon. I was too one paced in my long runs as well. I think the fast finish long run would have really helped. When is your marathon again? I'm tempted by the Kent Coastal marthon in September but not sure Mrs Pittsy would be so keen with me ramping up the training again!
well, survived 3 nights in a ramshackle static caravan with a 3 year with a dodgy tummy and a tiny bed with my 33 week pregnant wife!!!
was going to have a steady run tonight but didnt manage to get back until 6.30 and was whacked. Its club intervals tomorrow so will attack them for a change with totally fresh legs.
In terms of my tempo last week, i managed a 4.5 mile recovery the following morning. What i have read is that the idea of a tempo is not to leave you on the edge of vomit and desperate to sit down as i find myself after tuesday intervals, but to actually feel discomfort, but if someone put a gun to your head and insisted you go again, you actually could.
Great pb iower, always good when it comes like that.
great 10k pittsy as well.
Well done iower
. A pb is always good!
Storming 10k Pittsy. It's good you feel there was room for improvement.
Well done Katie. Even contemplating a 30m ride at that age!
Took a two day break from running to recover a bit and to get on with my life! Aiming for intervals tomorrow morning, but will see how sleep goes!
Just a quickie, Pittsy, to echo Mr V's thoughts - my 10k was slower than yours (though, macho ego massage alert, not by much) and yet I'm thinking that I'm getting close to sub 18 pace. I think you'll bash one this year. I had a few last year and would love to get back there.
19.00 at Ally Pally parkrun for me this weekend, had a fun race (the event may not be one, but I was most definitely racing/encouraging the youngster ahead) probably not worth much under 18:30 on a flat course but that's still a step along from where I was, and I think (hope) I'm advancing week by week thanks to some good training.
I could have typed exactly the same thing about myself (and the paces are similar as well!)
Pittsy – My mara is the back end of October. You need to run another one and ditch those 6 seconds! It certainly sounds like you would have cracked sub 3 comfortably with more sensible pacing.
DT – Sounds challenging! Not surprised you couldn’t manage a run on your return!
11 miles for me last night with 8 run at steady pace with the club (6.55s). Wanted to get the legs moving moderately briskly without doing a proper session (10k tomorrow). Felt very easy as you would expect and felt like I could run at that pace all day. Forecast for the race tomorrow is 38mph winds and heavy rain. Every race I ever do seems to be in awful conditions
Kelly - Sounds good after all your problems, and glad the latest round of antibiotics are finally doing the trick! Hope the track racing well - have been eyeing some summer open events up myself with a view to having a bash for the first time. And well done to Katie!
Excellent 10k, Pittsy - and a very strong last mile there. The new training is coming together well for you by the looks of it.
MrV - Good luck with the race tomorrow - weather sounds shocking! And yes, thanks, I'm playing it very carefully. Have done some background reading on my problem, and it seems like it's something that you generally can run through, and in fact, can sometimes be better to do so rather than have an extended lay off. It's not given me anything more than that very minor grumbling towards the end of Friday's 7 miler, have kept things mostly on grass since then, and will continue to do so for the time being. Managed just shy of 9 miles last night with no problems at all - about 3 miles were on pavements or cycle/canal paths going out and back (though taking refuge on grass verges wherever available) and the rest made up of 11 laps of the playing field! Rather dull, but worth it to keep myself running.
Was still suffering DOMS from Saturday's cricket when I went out so wasn't sure how long I'd last, but once I was out there just kept going, and seems to have loosened me up very nicely today. Rest now until tomorrow evening when I'm hoping to have a bash at Simon's 800m repeats that were discussed last week. Dropped back to the 2nd XI for Saturday's cricket which is disappointing, but does remove most of the doubt on whether I try to use this 20 minute pacer for a parkrun PB pursuit on Saturday at least!
Those sleeping arrangements sound a bit grim, DT! Glad you got through it anyway - hope you and your pal managed to slope off to a corner with a beer for some respite.
Quite like that distinction you've drawn between tempo and interval running there - I'd say that fits how I find them quite well.
TOM continuing to head in the right direction. Can imagine that is a damn hilly parkrun at Ally Pally! Great view across The Smoke from up there though. Went there for the first time for the darts with some of the gang from my old cricket club just before Christmas. Excellent (if very cheesy) night out and had a good chat with Eric Bristow at breakfast who was staying at our hotel! Also made me realise how much fitter I was getting at that point after only a few weeks running by then. Was the oldest in our group, but whilst the others were mostly all huffing and puffing after the climb up through the park to the venue, it had no effect on me.
Mr V - thank god I'm not doing that race. I absolutely detested it last year so didn't sign up.
Track was really fun last night. Did the 3000m in 12.41 and considering I haven't been under 7m/m in a while (I think this avg 6.49?), I was quite pleased. Vets only match but still got smashed by L50's. I wasn't overtaken the whole race though so that was good, especially as I felt someone breathing down my neck for the last lap.
I then did a 400m half an hour later. Ha. First of all, it felt like forever! My legs were a bit mashed and my throat was still burning a bit off the 3000. I was inside lane and haven't raced a 400 in my life so felt very last from the start! It was basically sprint as much as you can and hang on for dear life. Coming off the final bend, I could sense someone in lane 5, or somewhere over there, so really tried to dig in and think I beat her by a second, but was 4th or 5th in 80 seconds. I used to do that in 12x400m training sessions
Brilliant fun though and can't wait to do the next one. Supposed to be doing the Edinburgh HM on Sunday. Usually when I am incredibly off form, I just run without my chip, but they've gone and built it into the race number. I think I'll take a knife to it so I can just run it to get round
Those L50's are fast kelly!
I was wondering if you were still doing the HM on Sunday. Last year it was something like an 8am start - is it the same this year? I hope your lurgy is behind you now.
Minni - they really are! I recognithe them from being totally fast at XC so I didn't bother trying to keep up
Yes, Edinburgh is an 8am start (yawn) as they want it completed by the time the marathon starts. I suppose if you are going to do multi-distance races on the same day, this is the way to do it - Sunderland!
The lurgy is definitely behind me, I'm just left with the fatigue after effects. You know it must be bad when I haven't logged any runs in two months, I couldn't bring myself to check what I've been doing. I think I've probably done about 15m a week, maybe 25 last week. I'll check it all tonight. I really want to crack on with some training now. It has been a hopeless two years for me.
Lets hope its all good from now on. The XC season will be upon us before we know it. I'm not looking forward to being in the fast group.