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Pirate Race Team
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There's some nifty kit floating round with a skull over some butterfly wings. Saw alot of it at Henley.
I couldn't rest so have been on google! Looks like there are some German imposters:
http://www.pirate-hamburg.de/cms/triathlon/
That's Betty Designs, Cat. It's lovely kit.
My response copies from Facebook page:
Im afraid I don't like it at all, in fact it frightens me. Call me old fashioned, stuck in my ways, harking back to the old days, not prepared to change etc. Everything about this idea and the more suggestions I read above, the more it makes me think it challenges what makes the pirates different.
There is still an innocence, ameteurish, something aloof about the pirates, something about outsiders not knowing what PSOF stands for.
Sponsorship, a race team, whilst suggested with good intentions it poses the risk of building barriers, introducing elitist elements.
I wonder where this would take us, are we that desperate for a discount from race entry, a few freebies here and there and articles in a magazine that we're willing to sell our souls to the highest bidder? Pirate blender anyone?
Is a conscious effort to raise the profile of the pirates really what we want? What is it that sets us apart from all the other clubs, makes us successful, I think its what we already have.
I have upmost respect for Fagan, Rosey, etc etc, all you fast pirates, you are amazing. I know im just a slow guy who wings it round most races, but myself and others like me have found a home here?
I think it's a brilliant idea. The Pirates have evolved and whie we'll always be newbie and numpty friendly, it's got to be good for us to have something to offer those who are a bit good!
I don't post too often, in fact about as often as i race. But Barley has articulated my thoughts better than I ever could.
I find it a complete turn off and whilst i know I wouldn't be missed I wouldn't have anything to do with it. Tri clubs don't generally have an elite section and that suits even the elite athletes, who also don't wish to be alienated.
I'm all for change when it is required, its healthy and stops stagnation, but not in this direction.
Just my tuppence.
Gary FeganAs the first post points out, originally I wasn't going to have anything to do with pirates.
Then it dawned on me that everyone I wanted were / are pirates. The intention was always to be a source of inspiration and advice for those looking to improve to a good level, not elite but good.
Then I realised one thing that's not been tapped is the marketability of the pirates.
In less than a day I've secured some excellent offers, free race entries, free magazine subscription, the offer to star in the best tri mag there is... Maybe free products or good discount.
This won't make any difference to anyone apart from positive exposure and for those looking to up their game a valuable source of knowledge by those that have done it.
If that doesn't float your boat then don't take part, don't get involved and don't get featured. There's no impact on the PSOF ship, it sails on as before.
My response copies from Facebook page:
For me its the tapping into the marketability element I fear the most, internal branding, e.g. pirate caps, arm warmers etc is one thing but selling it to cash in on the brand is just a leap into the dark and a step to far in my opinion. I also find it strange that the this has been driven externally, its a kind of plagiarism.
To put those offers in perspective, how much are they worth given we collectively spend maybe £200k on races, £10k on kit per year. Has it really come down to a cost/benefit exercise? Is it really worth it? If it is, what about all the time people give for free, organising kit orders, travelling all around to support at races. Its partly the sum of those efforts you're suggest marketing.
Im afraid selling to the highest bidder is not for me, neither are magazine covers. Can you explain how the opt out for not taking part would work, are we not all painted by the same brush?I can see (or it appears) that the idea began with looking for ways to give something for those looking to improve.
I can identify with this and I applaud the intentions. Im not dead against the race team & inspirational elements, but do we really need the marketing? Are there other ways it could work?
Gary FeganAs the first post points out, originally I wasn't going to have anything to do with pirates.
Then it dawned on me that everyone I wanted were / are pirates. The intention was always to be a source of inspiration and advice for those looking to improve to a good level, not elite but good.
Then I realised one thing that's not been tapped is the marketability of the pirates.
In less than a day I've secured some excellent offers, free race entries, free magazine subscription, the offer to star in the best tri mag there is... Maybe free products or good discount.
This won't make any difference to anyone apart from positive exposure and for those looking to up their game a valuable source of knowledge by those that have done it.
If that doesn't float your boat then don't take part, don't get involved and don't get featured. There's no impact on the PSOF ship, it sails on as before.
My response copies from Facebook page:
For me its the tapping into the marketability element I fear the most, internal branding, e.g. pirate caps, arm warmers etc is one thing but selling it to cash in on the brand is just a leap into the dark and a step to far in my opinion. I also find it strange that the this has been driven externally, its a kind of plagiarism.
To put those offers in perspective, how much are they worth given we collectively spend maybe £200k on races, £10k on kit per year. Has it really come down to a cost/benefit exercise? Is it really worth it? If it is, what about all the time people give for free, organising kit orders, travelling all around to support at races. Its partly the sum of those efforts you're suggest marketing.
Im afraid selling to the highest bidder is not for me, neither are magazine covers. Can you explain how the opt out for not taking part would work, are we not all painted by the same brush?I can see (or it appears) that the idea began with looking for ways to give something for those looking to improve.
I can identify with this and I applaud the intentions. Im not dead against the race team & inspirational elements, but do we really need the marketing? Are there other ways it could work?
I agree with Barlos. One of the reasons it has done so well is by avoiding the usual tendency to want freebies and to over complicate things. Is it really worth changing a winning formula to get a few quid off some assorted shit that nobody needs and most people wouldn't bother with anyway.
"Tapping into the marketability" is absolute bollocks
and the kit was designed to be super simple, deliberately. It wasn't an accident. And it worked quite well for the last 10 years. Selling out with putting writing all over it or changing the design to fit better with the coca cola logo is also absolute bollocks.
What next? A member list? A management committee? A private forum? There are hundreds of tri clubs you can join if you want that. Hundreds.
First post for ages so maybe I'm too far out of it to comment, but this makes me feel a little sad, and also a little relieved that I got my 3 Pirate IMs out of the way before it was sold out.
Sure, things change and evolve, but what really stands out about Pirate kit is the element of mystery - no words, no explanation. I was really confused when I saw Joddly's kit in Kona, and I don't think the design compares to the sheer impact of the very simple black on yellow. Sponsors logos would be a very sad day indeed.
And taking part in an event as a pirate was about camaraderie, whatever your level, not about invitation-only freebie-gaining A-teams, and everybody else slithering underneath them taking whatever freebies were left for the slower forms of pond-life such as myself.
I've no idea if I'm going to do another IM, but this would make it a lot less likely that I'd fancy doing one as part of pirate B-team. It sullies it for me, big time.
Even Flyaways post on page one: “the Team would benefit from some form of sponsorship/free or discounted stuff, but the idea would be to make sure there were discounts associated with any companies that sponsored us, that applied to ALL Pirates. The Team would benefit from the brand, recognisability and support of the Pirate massive” is separating the ‘Team’ and the people she refers to as ‘us’ from ‘all pirates’.
Well, I thought the pirates were a team. I thought we were all the same team. This would separate us into the ‘Team’ and what essentially are fan-boys. Wearing pirate kit would then become like wearing ‘Team Sky’ kit – a little bit of tragic aspiration for those who’ll never make the cut.
So er… I hate the idea, but as I haven’t raced in a while, maybe my opinion isn’t worth squat.
And in a world where the Co-op bank is run by hedge funders, I guess everyone sells out eventually!
I just thought the Pirates were different.
No, you are quite right Jess
Actually if I see people with no claim over the rights to the kit attempting to sell sponsorship rights to some commercial organisation, they (being the would be sponsor) will see an injunction letter on their door mat faster than you can say "grumpy old bastard"
obviously you can make your own splinter group and have that sponsored. But don't try to make it yellw and black or have skull and crossbones, or that injunction letter will just be modified a bit to cover the tortious passing off.
i know, I know, I'm a twat
Seeing the kit on the previous page, it just looks like 101 other clubs kit, it's hasn't got what pirate kit has, as soon as we logo and brand up we're lost.
I've got to ask, how much did they pay you?
Having slept on this and mulled it over, this is not a good idea mainly for the reasons Barlos articulates so well We are ALL a team no matter how fast or slow and I for one am not to concerned about using the " brand" to get discounts or coverage in a magazine which arguably is dlightky better than the competition but is still a major repetative yawn after around 22 issues of reading, the facility to join fast teams is probably already out there with most normal clubs, the pirates summed it for me years years ago watching Barley yelling his head off in support post race fag and beer in hand
i thought they don't take themselves to seriously i want in
and on reflection for me thats not changed so in short Pirate Race Team no thankyou
Gary serious suggestion. IF this gets kicked into touch here for whatever reason or causes seismic upsets have you thought about pitching this to TriTalk they have different dynamic on there those Tripeys would be all over this like a rash
Do you want to be sponsored by Wonga or BP?
Will there be a corporate song? Rules? Mission statement?
As for the pirate SAS, all pirates are equal, but some are more equal than others?
My SAS comment was supposed to be ironic
i want to be in the other pirate SAS Slow Aged Slackers
Who gets to decide on the sponsors, I know Gary's qualified for Kona next year, Hilton hotels? American Airlines? Who collects the money, companies aren't going to hand it over in a brown envelope, your going to have to pay tax, bank account, committee.
These companies will want their pound of flesh. Who signs the contact? "Gary says 'we do conduct ourselves well in public (for the mist part). Who decides how we should conduct ourselves in future, what's good, what are the brand behaviours?
It would be great just to see Earl and the rest of those prehistoric rubber Wonga loan sharks in Yeller in Black lycra on primetime TV
RBM summed it up nicely for me, the same reason that attracted me to this group, "they don't take themselves very seriously" all this discussion is in danger of getting serious.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a focus on a fast team, but I think it would be wrong to separate, it should be the same kit, no money sponsorship or membership etc, we should all just be Pirates
Dear all,
Before this goes crazy here's what I was proposing and this is just a proposal. The team was going to be called the Buccaneers (in my mind anyway) and not the pirates, there was to be an association, not an off-shoot. There are no plans for kit as yet as most people would continue to wear their pirate kit. There's never be a plan to hijack the pirate kit or sell advertising space that others have to wear. Individuals can do what they want to their own kit currently, no one has stopped people adding names or personal sponsors in the past.
The main aim is to provide a vehicle for those looking to improve, maybe to Kona standard, not something that was every thought of back in 2004 but times change. This is not trying to take the helm of PSOF but sit complimentary beside it.
The marketing bit is an aside, I was looking to get a few things for the team but it was suggested and rightly, that we should try and get something that all people could use. There’s no sign-up or proof of pirate authenticity etc.
Candy – injunctions, FFS, get a grip man.
So there it is.
You know what the Corinthian spirit is all about?
Sliders.
Sliders, and being mentioned in a 3 amp magazine/podcast.
Like a few others I feel compelled to post if only to say what a poor idea this is.
The reason I joined the Pirates was to join not a club as such but a spirit. A spirit of togetherness and support. Not to save money, make money or swim/bike/run with sponsors logos all over me.
If some Pirates want to set up a race team etc then there is nothing anyone can do to stop them but they should start up their own team, name etc and not pile in on the back of the rest of us who simply want to enjoy the camararderie and sponteneity that I associate with racing with other Pirates.
Bit old fashioned and maybe I have missed the point? Maybe but it's how I feel.
Don't worry, causing enough legal fuss to scare Wonga away and sink a sponsorship is much less hassle than agreeing a licence to set one up. I'm doing you a favour in the long run
you can just read the magazine in W H Smith and then put it back on the shelf anyway. It's mostly advertising, nothing worth saving.