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Far far too much to catch up on since I was last here a few weeks ago. Particular mention has to go to LD for a truly epic report, to Jimbob, TR and Jools for great PBs and to bufo for a great XC run. Nice results Al_P, Wardi, CD and Speedy too. Fingers crossed that's through the worst of it CW and nice running from SL and HR too.
Am feeling pretty wretched myself. Vietnam and Cambodia were wonderful (aside from a couple of panic-inducing experiences trying to get on the last flight out of central Vietnam the night before the typhoon and later finding myself in the middle of a criminally irresponsible decision by the authorities at Ho Chi Minh City airport to run a mock counter terrorism unit storming of the terminal complete with guns and screaming hostages without any discernible public announcement - I found myself, somewhat surreally, cowering behind a large plant pot with a hyperventilating Aussie). Managed a sum total of 3 runs in a fortnight (each 8-10 miles and at 6am, when it was already mid 20s and 90% humidity) - my admiration for HR's South East Asian marathon campaign is redoubled.
I'm feeling pretty miserable this morning. I was so psyched to get back and down to some proper running, given my few runs in Vietnam were aerobically very comfortable and I had no post-Frankfurt problems (Al_P, I remember reading an interview with the race director in the magazine as I killed time the night before - unless my German is way off, he was saying that the tarmac in Frankfurt was pretty forgiving compared to elsewhere - not quite sure why that would be but might have something to do with legs not being so trashed?). Saturday was a beautiful, crisp morning and I set out for 15 or 16 easy miles. Felt easy and good so added an extra loop to bring it up to 20. Probably a bit foolish after limited running for 3 weeks - a bit of hamstring/glute ache in the final 5m though nothing prohibitive but then later that day and all of yesterday/today I'm have a really nasty pain in my left shin - like shin splints from a few years back. So I think I need to be sensible and take more time off, just when I was really up for doing some p[roper training. Hmph...
Well run Jimbob.
Tough luck Dids, though well done on hanging in there for the sub-3.
Well bubka'd Jools.
TR - a sub-6 HM to go with your sub-6 10m. Well done. A good autumn's work.
Well raced CD, TB and Al_P.
It sounds like you're running really well bufo.
TR - very impressive. Mind you, if you were running the Ageo City half marathon, you wouldn't need to be worrying getting amongst the prizes. 1h10 wouldn't have got you in the top 400
Jimbob - fine effort
Dids - solid run; even more solid report
Just been informed I got a Middx county bronze medal for Abingdon. Considering I walked the last 4 miles and missed a PB by over three quarters of an hour, I'm inclined to believe that it's a bit easier than it used to be
selbs -- hope you get back to it soon.
PP -- I had some tough ergo sessions back in the day. As a cox, I had to sit on a plastic chair shouting encouragement while each of my female crew members took their turn at pulling 1500m. It was really tough.
CC2 -- congratulations! Zatopek effect?
TB -- nice 10M, sounds like a well-earned PB even if it had to be anyway.
Jimbob -- congratulations to you too! Sounds really satisfying. (How old are you -- is that a London GFA too, it you want it?)
Sounds like you're back to full-on training after your IM, Padams.
Al_P -- 3 weeks after a marathon you should cut yourself a little slack -- top bombing.
Lev_ -- wow, your airport experience is one to dine out on. Hope the shin issue quickly fades away again.
Nothing to report here -- yesterday off having DNS's my half to be nice to my calf, and no exercise today as it's MoT day for the car. I hope the niggles appreciate the break...
DanA: frame it
Lev: that all sounds a bit too exciting (airport/typhoon escape, etc.). Perhaps 20M was a bit much for a comeback run? Hopefully the shin will settle with a few days' rest and a bit of ice. TR will accuse you of potato-related activity shortly, I'm sure.
Al_P: I wouldn't have fancied a half that soon after a marathon. Sounds like, all things considered, you have recovered exceptionally well from Frankfurt.
Padams - indeed, it was about as still as it gets.
TT - 2xsub 80 and the sub60 back up the decision to ditch my Abo number. Although since the 1/2 IM I'm back down to ~30mpw, so need to address that.
Jools - it was the "probably" in Levs post that caught my attention.
AL_P - I looked up in time to see you, but couldnt shout back. I was struggling on the 2nd lap of the airfield with all the corners and I was losing contact with a few ahead, when you saw me I was setting about throwing the kitchen sink to chase soem time back. The photo's on the prom show that I did indeed make good gains in the last few miles as I caught a few that were well ahead. I looked for you after but couldnt see you. Well done for toughing out a 1/2 so soon after Frankfurt.
just a swim today, my calf is better than i thought it'd be, if the binmen hadnt have been this morning I'd get my trainers back out (the bin) for later in the week.
I've been given 78:15 for y'day, the chip registered me as a DNF instead of a DNS, so they knew how long it took me to cross the line and the SPO reckoned I crossed the line in 78:18, which the video footage obviously confirmed.
TR -- which is 5:58/M. Nice! (Good they had video as a backup BTW.)
CW - - I didnt know exactly where 6mm would get me due to the extra 0.1M, but I reckoned somewhere 78:40, so thats about right. Means that I did indeed get a bit of time back in the last couple of miles, as I was about 15 sec under 6mm at most of the markers between 4 and 10M, was probably a negative split then, as I was 18min exactly at 3M. Unless someone else gets reinstated ahead of me then I was 1st V45 too, I bet they dont recognise V45 as prize category, but its a decent result in a 2000 person race regardless.
OK evening Peeps. firstly, must mention - nice sub3 LD and nice cheeky 1 sec 10k pb by the lady of the moment. I must say i was feeling particularly inspired by Jools's very even paced and disciplined sub3 in Frankfurt. from that race you could have possibly been more aggressive, risked more to go a bit quicker but i like the fact that you set yourself a target pace and stuck to your guns, and executed your race plan perfectly. With a marathon 10-20 seconds either way per mile can be costly, it can balls ones race up. Too quick and you are risking a blow up further down the road, too slow and you have missed the boat. To quote a great friend who runs marathons and works in the medical profession, you can't bank time, only energy. Cutting it so fine but seemngly in control the whole time, thats a strong mind. Your legs are trained for it - but the mind struggles more in the last hour. I would like to think that at some point i could run a sub 3 mara - i'm not ready yet - i know from my training that i am not there yet. There were times yesterday - where i was running sub3 pace confortably but i knew that it was not the time to try such antics so whenever i saw my watch creeping to 6.50 i just relaxed and let it drop to early 7s. In berlin i had the 3.11.52, the achilles and shin splints pains, the congestion in the first half - the big negative split. I've rested well since then while still keeping the training "simmering" - had a good half at GWR and a good 20 miles on dartmoor and plenty good 10 mile marathon pace tempo runs. I was thinking if the pains stay away and i can get away cleanly without wasting energy jostling i could do a little better than Berlin (if it's as flat as they say it is)
Valencia. Arriving on the saturday malarkey and going to the expo - thats the 3rd international i have done this year - it's tough, it's an early rise - you are on your feet most of the day with a heavy backpack. All you want to do is chill out. There you go - i was in a cab to Mill Hill at 4.45am with my pal. Took a 5.15 train to gatwick - takes over an hour - 8am flight to Valencia. Straight to the expo. I don't know how much you know of the race, but it starts an finishes in an area called the City of Arts and Sciences. It's a very cool place - google image it. The expo was there - that wasn't good. Similar to Berlin where they trapse you through the whole thing to get your numbers. London and Paris have a much better way - you get your number at the beginning, and you just mooch through the expo to get out, much more likely to spend money. After that went to another bit the complex for tghe Paella party - free beer and paella, fruit etc btw it was lovely weather. Then another bit, wherey ou got your finisher's technical t-shirt which is a good tshirt although they didn't have the sizes. I ended up with a XL which is more like an L but i'm an M so it's still a bit of a tent. thanksfully met another forumite who wanted an XL and they only had an L so we have swapped. It's a good shirt. Then off to the hotel. It's very cheap in Valencia, we went out the evening for a carb load. More paella vicar. Then managed to get to sleep at 9.20. Had broken sleep but had the best sleep i've ever had before a marathon. The alarm was set for 5 and that was fine ....
Quick brekkie at the hotel then onto the metro arriving down there at 8am for the 9am start. Bit of a trudge and the bag check was not very well located (i thought) - it wasnt very deep and was a bit of a crush around there. Anyway all sorted heading to the pens with pal. Couple of pee stops in the bushes - was quite close to the start. It was a beautiful morning. Got a way nice and relaxed with a 7.26 first mile. Which i was fine with as a warm up but i wanted to get it more like under 7.10 average. I seemed to be motoring along and kept creeping into sub7 and telling myself too fast, so then just slowing my breathing - relaxing but maintaining the form - then it was like 7.05-7.08. The fuel stops were every 5k, and it was a nice wide course with the drinks either side. I was picking my water provider out from a distance pointing at the bottle in their hand and they were stepping out and giving it to me, didn't lose any time or form through the stations. Very impressed with that, although the slower runners had issues as some drinks stations ran out of bottled water which is unforgiveable on a hot sunny marathon. (it wasn't boiling), it was perfect conditions but warming up by midday - which was ok for me as i was nearly home. My pal, finished in 4.40 so it was tough on them. I had 3 pee stops on the route whcih was annoying but necessary. A little bit of tummy thoughts, but at km38 i thought if anything "happens" mid run, i'm not stopping for no one! At half marathon i was at 1.33.09 - so i knew the 3.05 was off the table - and i was fine with that, as that was not really my target. That actually meant i didn't have to push, was not going to try and claw it back in the second half so it kind took the pressure off. The pacing continued, at times just easing myself back over the 7mm. At 33km the mind started to go - tried to think of anything to shift the focus away from "i just wanna fall asleep down there ....." the legs/cadence were still doing their thing good ole legs, the water stops helped. There was teeny tiny (not even a real) hill around 35/36k - then after that it was flat to gradual downhill all the way home. Of course i did push it a little as the crowd support was brilliant all the way round as the kms passed, km40 was a sub7 - total of 9 sub7s in the whole race. Came in with another negative split 1.32.28! - in at 3.05.37 - which is more than i could have dreamed of. It was perfectly executed. I believed in my form, the pains stayed away - a nice wide course so you can just motor and eat up the road. (a bit twisty in the last 10k) - the finish area was brilliant, and the bag check backed onto it - so collecting my bag was tonnes easier. Free amstel at the finish, not one but as many as i wanted! First thing i did was get medal and bottle of water and went to the engraving stand which was empty - paid 3 euroes and got name and time on there. Got in there early and shortly after it was mobbo. Have to say this was a perfect race for me, and i would recommend it to you speedy types, although i think in terms of prizes it's very competitve, but for a cracking pb - thats a good place to go. As flat as berlin with no congestion - and free beer (that has actual alcohol in it) at the end!
For me, Berlin already got me the GFA time (in answer to you question Charlie) for which i am going to apply to Boston2015 and London2015 (already done London before but would like to do it again). Boston is a big priority for me. I have always wanted to do it. Its the holy grail. The main aim in valencia was to try to dip below 5 minutes under Boston qualifying mark 3.15 - which increases my chance of sucessful entry - i exceeded that, the next aim will be to dip under 3.05 - which is 10 minutes which would give me a fantastic chance to get in. I will try to train for a sub3 now - i have the belief. But come
(continued) ....... Paris 2014, if the tempo runs are not at 6.50 average - i won't be risking a sub3 - the priority will be to skim below 3.05 - to really help to nail down the boston chances.
Jimbob - nice report, well executed race too. You need to focus on not over hydrating and stopping for a pee 3 times, you're giving away minutes of time there.
Great report and excellently executed race, Jimbob. Chapeau! (And thanks for the name-check.)
Jimbob nice report & a disciplined & well executed race. That you managed a negative split perhaps suggests that there was a bit more there if you dared push it, but you stuck to your guns & that is a very brave thing to do. Sub 3 doesn't sound like it's far off at all
Jimbob, Jimbob.... THREE toilet stops? How much were you drinking?
Nice report Jimbob. Very sensible pacing; would a slight positive split bring you closer to sub 3? Have you got heart rate data?
Nicely done Jimbob. Given the stops and negative split, you're probably very close to 3 hour form already. So no reason why you can't get there next time.
You said you're planning on Boston and London in 2015? Aren't they usually 6 days apart? Also, has the Boston qualifying system changed? When I did it, once you had the qualifying time you were in guaranteed.
No running for me today as I'm out this evening, so did the club session on my own last night instead - 4x800, 4x600, 4x400. 800s were in about 2:40, 600s in just under 2, no idea on the 400s. So not particularly fast, although they were on undulating roads, and the distances probably weren't bang on as I was just using some loops which I know are roughly right. Kept the recoveries shortish - around 70s for each, all jogging at a reasonable pace.
padams, they've changed the Boston application process I believe: gone are the days when you had months to apply and anyone with a qualifying time was pretty much guaranteed a place. Now they open applications first to those with the best times in each age group. So you, 30 minutes or so inside your qualifying time, would get to apply first, while those scraping in by a few seconds would have to wait a few days. And if it fills up in the meantime, tough luck.
Nicely done jimbob, nicely paced. Lots of people in your position go for sub 3 and end up with 3:10, but sub 3 won't be far off for you, especially if you sort out your drinking. Sounds like you'd have been better off pouring it on your head than drinking it.
Good work Jimbob. sounds like less p*ssing about next time and sub 3 is yours!!
Padams - what CD said - was like that a couple of years ago when i looked at applying (and luckily didnt as it woudl have been anohter DNS!).
Jogged 20mins yesterday first test for a week or so... rest day today and see how latest injury responds/re-test on Weds... like that day on and day off again short runs for a while for me.
TR - nice one got the offical PB. Mate you are only 45 seconds or so off mine and that got me a sub 2:45..... nailed on for sub 2:50 at a minimum now!! Nice autumn of racing anyway top stuff.
Lev - that sounded like chaos at hte airport! hope your injury is nothing too bad.
yes the pee stops, i didn't really have a really satisfying visit pre-race and was sipping lucozade up till the start. It felt dry on course but i don't feel like i took too much on, the breaks were short, so i guess i have a weak bladder. Possibly the middle one could have waited and then it would have been two stops, but i was aware of the need to possibly go and didn't want it to affect things.
Re Boston and London, i will apply for a London 2015 in May when the GFA app process opens up, then in Sept will do the same for Boston in September. I won't be running both! but i'll have to go for a place in London in case Boston doesn't happen for me. With a 3.15 qualifying time i would like to think the 3.05.37 ticks the box but nothing is certain in life.
Whos joining me in Boston then?
btw are you peeps saying that by running a negative split, i am holding back a little and there is still a little more in the can?
It's 'only' a 30 second -ve split jimbob, so I doubt there was much that could have come off that time on the day. Conceivably you could have gone a bit quicker in the first half and still held form until the end, but it wouldn't be much. You'd gain more by not stopping 3 times (or learning to pee while running as certain triathletes have been known to do, but that's probably a little antisocial in a big city marathon).
Well done Jimbob, very wise to avoid the round-number lure which might have blown you up.
Drink-wise, I'd typically have a couple of coffees at breakfast time (3 or 4 hours before the race), then NOTHING until my customary 300ml of sports gloop at T-1 minute. Hence no full bladder problems. In a race with good drinks like VLM, you can keep as hydrated as needed as you go along anyway, so there's no point in preloading.
JimBob great racing and report. I am thinking you are probably much closer to a sub 3 than you think. A negative split does imply you could have run quicker with more even pacing. I know that I prefer to run a small negative split to stop myself setting off too quickly though. Belief and "the mental" side of being ready are also a key part in that sub 3 goal. It has taken me a while to believe that I can attempt a sub 02:50 for London. It was not until I started accepting it was possible that my times and pacing have started to improve! I enjoyed reading Charlie Spedding's book from last to first on holiday recently. Talks about how he changed from being a very good club/GB runner that worked very hard without really ever getting the results he wanted. To a runner that won races and medals.
Tim - It's on my Xmas list now!
https://totriornottotri.wordpress.com
I'd definitely back up the recommendation on Spedding's book - read it while I was away on holiday. TT, I think you'd find it particularly interesting, given the overlap with some of the Squires stuff.
Shin splints. Ridiculous given that I did back to back marathons without any problems at all and then an easy run messes me up just when I was really keen to get back into things. Still, London's a long time off so I don't really have anything to lose by extending the break from training for another couple of weeks.
I've never tried spinning before and am pondering it - any recommendations as to sessions to do/how best to go about it. I'd be more keen to start doing some threshold work while I can't run.
Jimbob.. what Charlie said really. I tend to sip until 90 mins before the off then stop, then have a quick slurp before the gun. Never needed a pee in 20 marathons with this approach. Still, congrats on a belting marathon, glad it cooled down a bit over there!
Selbs.. good to see you getting a few bimbles in.
Lev.. sounds like a scene from Miami Vice at the airport! No such excitement at Alicante for me I'm afraid. Shin splints.. progressive injury, minute damage accumulates over a period of time then something 'gives'. A bit of RICE treatment should sort it. Re. the Frankfurt tarmac - I was wondering why my legs recovered so quickly, no Quad or calf pain or DOMS at all.
Just had a look through the Leeds Abbey Dash results.. quite a stacked field for the GB club runners, 14 finished under 30 minutes, over 250 under 35 mins. Can't be many races where Marders finishes 22nd..
https://www.raceplus.co.uk/raceplus-index.php?content=1&race=47485&show_type=All&event_id=LAD13&event_id=LAD13
4.3m done early doors, 0 degrees so pleased I had long sleeves on. Stuck to shorts though being a hard man of the north. About 7m to follow with the club tonight.
CC2 - apologies, I missed your win. Congrats!
TR - indeed it did (back up your decision to ditch Abo). As I said at the time it was completely understandable given it wasn't your A-race and the type of training you'd have to have put in. Sounds like a good plan going forward too. It will be interesting to see how you get on at VLM.
Good write-up Jimbob (though spacing it out into a few more paragraphs wouldn't go astray
). Don't put a limit on Paris yet. Do the training and see where it gets you. You could end up being in better than sub-3 shape.
Fingers crossed you can get back to it now selbs.
Lev_ - I've got Spedding's book and yes, it's interesting. I done a mini version of one of his surge runs shortly before Amsterdam. Re: the tarmac, I've seen the opposite of this before with the Silverstone HM course - car racing tarmac is hard (apparently almost concrete like) and thrashes the legs more.
I ended up not running from Friday morning until lunchtime today as I got a whopper of a migraine. Been a while since I had one. Worst of it has gone now, so will get back to it over the next few days. At least it has prevented me from doing too much too soon (ended up with 74 last week)! I'm definitely raring to get back into the swing of it properly now though.
I was 65th lady at Leeds - lowest race placing for the year! But I'd take a (bubka) pb over a podium place any day.