Sub 3

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Comments

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    PL3 - if the target is 2:59 then slow down more than 7:30s, its not wrong, its good to run slow on the long runs. I'd consider 8 to 8:30s, it should feel easy, and after you have done a couple, you should finish thinking that you could go round again if needed.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    PL3 - take note of NS2 !

  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭

    TT - Good bit of tempo work

    Bufo - ouch, 4x2M off 2mins, no wonder you found it hard towards the end, that's a tough workout (off-road too!)! Tasty pace for 2m reps to boot image

    CW - Happy returns for yesterday, well done for fitting the 10miler in. Hope you enjoyed a wee dram last nightimage

    Good park running from AW and Padams, and great long mileage CD, HR, TR, Jimbob and OT

    Due to a long drive south today I decided to do my long run around an outing to York Parkrun. It was great to meet up with and have a warm up chat with Wardi (and to meet Mrs Wardi) Run came out as, 5.25M Easy (7:02/M)/Parkrun (17:19, 1st place)/12.2M (6:35/M) with the 12M up to York and back along the river (with some creative division loops due to high water levels!). So overall very please with 20.6M averaging 6:32/M. Brings up a decent total of 66M for the week, hopefully fully back in business now image

     

  • CW - Happy Birthday yesterday, sounds like it was a good day.

    Al_P - Was definitely suffering on the last two reps, was a v. short but steep hill at the start which seemed to send my legs straight back to feeling like the end of the previous rep, good to get it done though. Nice 21 miles inc. parkrun win.

    PLenty of good weekend long runs as always, 20 miles steady today for me at just under 6:30 pace for my first 100 mile week. Nice morning for running though a couple of interesting icy bits in places early on. Will see how legs cope with the miles, doing xc sessions (which are generally pretty long intervals) until university champs in 3 weeks then starting marathon specific work.

  • Good 18.49 miles for me this morning & 70 miles for the week.

    Happy with this mornings run because although there was no pace or quality involved I didn't think I was even capable of doing a 16 & even that I thought would be a push.

    For the fella asking about 7:20 miles on a long run with the aim of a sub three, I think most peoples have answered similarly but I'll add my two pennies anyway; 7:20 m/m is way to keen for just a sub three, IMO, you don't need to worry about all this right now, just go out & get the miles under your belt at this stage & start worrying about the nuts & bolts from late February onwards.

    I don't think I've ever worried too much about the long run on Sunday, its more important to get the feel of a 20 miler under your belt IMO rather than worrying about doing a 7:20 mm or any of that, don't kill yourself for little or no gain.

    I prefer to run by feel anyway, concentrate more on the way you feel when you are running, not what your watch is telling you. Too many are slaves to what their fancy watches are telling them IMO, people 30 years ago didn't have these fancy watches & were better runners, its an interesting debate, I have a GPS watch the same as everyone else, but definitely come down in the "anti Garmin camp" if we are going to have that debate.

  • PL3 for my sub 3 a couple of years ago I was running 7.30's as a max for my long runs.

    Nice long runs TR & Jimbob, up to 20+ early in the campaign.

    Good week training for me. 10 with 5 @ HM pace on Tuesday with the Hm part coming in at 5:5X laps. Runs of 14 & 12 miles on Wednesday & Friday at 6:5X average, followed by 18 with the final 10 @ MP today. MP was nicely under control  for the 1st 7 miles, then hit a short sharp incline that really took it out of me & turned the 3 into a real battle. Thought I was gone on the last mile but just about clung on, felt pretty grim after, kept all the MP miles around the 6:15 mark though. Just under 70 miles for the week

  • Hope you had a good birthday yesterday CW.

    Good Long runs TR, Jimbob, Al_P, bufo, nichs2 and Stephen!

    20 miles from me too today, probable a bit too quick, but felt easy so just went with it. Coincidentally 7.20 was my average pace and the heart rate was nice and low so effort wise it seemed ok. Another 60 mile week ticked off.

  • Afternoon

    After a week off for various reasons cranked out 22+. Not sure of pace as my watch stopped itself for almost a couple of miles. 

    Back to normal tomorrow unless we get another over zealous visit from the rain gods.

  • 20 for me, at 8.06 pace. I'd say 7.30s is way too quick for a sub 3 aspirant, but also, 12 miles is no where near long enough for a long run PL3.

  • Great running everyone.

    Happy Birthday CW - hope you enjoyed the celebrations.

    Missed a couple of runs this week but just about managed a steady hilly road 20M @ 7.30m/m avg pace to bring up 63 miles for the week.

    //
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Bufo.. tough session there & nicely done on the 20 today.

    AW.. congrats on the Park Run PB & the 20m today.

    Padams.. some great training lately & well done on the Park Run win.

    Some cracking long runs today - 20 seems very popular!..  TR, Nichs2, Old No7, ST, Jimbob, HR, Postie, Luke, CC2.

    CD.. like TR said it doesn't seem long since you were grounded.  Great to see you back doing Park Runs & 20 milers.

    Charlie.. many happy returns for yesterday.  Did anyone buy you a compilation CD of cheesey 70's disco tunes by any chance? 

    Al P.. nice to meet you too & congrats on the win.  A few of the local lads were asking about your Xempo shirt so I'm sure DanA will appreciate the publicity!  There's an action shot of you in the 8th row down here..

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/York-parkrun/141543305936278#!/pages/York-parkrun/141543305936278?id=141543305936278&sk=photos_stream

    Great running before & after too, nice way to clock up 20+!

    York Park Run normally gets 200-250 runners in decent weather but a massive 368 turned up yesterday for the 2nd birthday.  My legs could still feel Thursday's tempo effort so I just failed to hang on to sub 20 pace.  20:12 on the watch but by way of consolation I was 1st senior codger & Mrs Wardi won her category too.  A glass or two of Prosecco was raised in celebration last night.

    20m from me too today, cold but calm so quite enjoyed it.

     

  • Nice long runs, people, and congrats on including the parkrun win in your impressive combo Al. A mighty pace for yours again bufo.

    Wardi -- I did get Simon & Garfunkel for Xmas... and was listening to the Stones in the car today. Near enough? Well done on the household results for you too.

    And yes thanks, after the fine curry last night I finished up with that birthday port and Laphroaig. But having shot my mouth off about a possible training marathon, I felt I had to, so up I got at 05:40 and began under the stars... I intended to include 10x fast laps of the park again, but quickly realised after the fast 10M yesterday too I would risk blowing up my defuelled/jaded legs and failing to achieve my endurance objective, so I made do with 10x "somewhat harder" efforts (avg 6:31/M) and overall I got increasingly slow. Total 26.3M in 3hr16 (avg 7:28/M).

    I really noticed my breathing being way too hard for the 8 m/M pace towards the end, clearly burning pure curry fat by then through less efficient metabolism (and felt pretty wobbly), so it should all be good for those marathon adaptations. Followed by a 6M family walk later which was nice.

  • Blimey this was the weekend the 20's came out in forceimage  

    So, well done on the fellow 20's: TR, The Jimbob, Nichs2, Al_P (see below), Bufo (esp. after the reps and huge mileage: congrats). Stephen T with an honorary 20m given your mpw, Old No.7 nice long run too with the MP, A.W., PostiePostie with a 22+ superb, CC2, LukeStur, CD (think I mentioned you y'day but again well done), Wardi excellent to see you with the mojo back fella and finally the birthday boy CW with a suitably and gloriously great over-distance 26.2m after the splurge: top work Charlie.  

    Congrats on the 1st place Al_P. That's a superb way to begin a 20m. Wow.  

    After my 20+ y'day just an easy 7.5m recovery today to bring up 62mpw which included a rest day so I guess the mojo's returned. I've got my commute-run setup in place now so I should be able to take up the mileage provided my sore left calf holds.  

    Anyway, I've attempted a long read back but only made a week-ish. On the shoes, yes love the Asics Gel Lyte 33 2's (as per Al_P's nod) and might well get some more as a training shoe. On the food front, hmmmm.  

    I'm slightly surprised to read advocacy of Noakes's latest diet aka eating plan if only because it is self-avowedly built out of his diabetes. I'm not a nutrionist, but then neither are some of the people who seem to devise these things. Which reminds me that it's a bit like the young male 'personal trainers' who have appeared like a rash all over Wandsworth Common with troupes of adoring ladies in leotards, doubtless paying these guys a fortune so they can drool over their man. What they really need is a kick up the arse and being told to get on with the f-ing running themselves. Jeez I sound like LD. Must be old age or jealousy. Anyway, back to the diets:  

    They are all based on calorie cutting. Noakes's eating plan is basically the GI diet, and it works for sure. I went from 17 stone to 12 stone mostly because of it. Did it make me happy? Not really. Starve yourself of carbs and you become an even more miserable and irrascible git than I appear in my previous paragraph. Of course it works. They all do. Shut off part of your body to one food group or another and your poor system can only take so much of whatever else you are ramming in its place: be that fats, protein, tomato juice, carrots, nuts, beetroot or even lemonade with maple syrup and cayenne pepper etc. blah blah. You can make a diet out of anything you like because your body can only take so much of one food type. So a cursory look at the top ten fads reveal they all rely on excluding certain food groups with the possible exception of the Mediterranean one which looks vaguely sensible. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthy-recipes/10556104/New-Year-10-most-popular-diets-to-follow-this-January.html  

    So, marathon training on low carbs? Well if it works for you and produces faster times (does it?) fine but I think it's questionable really and I've done it myself. I'm very prone to these fads mainly because I'm also prone to putting on weight and eating too much. But all I need is to moderate quantities a little. Sure, there may well be some science in the idea of carb cycling: so you don't allow your metabolism to settle into one steady rhythm but that's just a day or two every so often. You don't need to start depriving yourself for weeks of what may actually turn out to be vital parts of your bodily needs, be that vegetables, fruits, carbs, proteins, fats, vitamins, minerals, salts etc. Just be balanced and enjoy your food. So this is a memo to self over the next 13 weeks:   

    Stop being a silly bugger and just eat a balanced healthy diet with enough carbs to fuel you. After all, carbs turn to glycogen and we need that for endurance, right?  

  • Which reminds me, I've become a major fan of carrot cake, and fool myself into thinking that because the word 'carrot' exists in the title it must be a particularly healthy form of indulgence. PP (or anyone else) as one of the most authoritative sub-3h taste buds where do you reckon excels? I mentioned the surprise of Nando's and Costa does a good one. I find Sainsbury's disappointingly dry but a friend has told me to check out M&S for moistness. Tesco's finest looks the part and at £2.20ish seems a steal but will the inside match the stylish box?

    p.s. nice erg work by the way PP. I love those machines. Best form of indoor exercise around in my book.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    lots more long runs, excellent, must be marathon training time.

    Al_P - good to see you getting back to it, see you next Sunday.

    PL3 - 7:30s is still too quick, "armchair" pace is what you're after. Its about time on feet not pace. 

    HR - eat to compete dude ! racing cars dont run on unleaded !

  • Great post, HR. 

    Paul, good advice here. But having just finished a slow 13.5m run for a 50m week (with a fair bit of cross training) i can say, with confidence of 10 years of sub3, don't worry about the need to be knocking out 20s at this stage. Enough weeks to come. 

  • nichs2nichs2 ✭✭✭

    HR, 17 stone!! ... respect

  • CW - Happy belated birthday, I bet that 0.1m makes all the difference.  ;-)

    Bufo - You are absolutely flying, don't burn too many matches though.

    TR - Glad the 20 was easier than last weeks 18.

    Great park runs from Al, Padams and AW.

    Congrats to Wardi and your good lady.

    Good long runs from - ichs2Old No7ST,JimbobHR, Postie, Luke, CC2.

    HR - The general Paleo/Noakes theory is to decrease the reliance on carbs and consequently improve fat burning, which in my experience is essential for marathon+ distances.

    Brilliant to see CD back at it.

    22 yesterday with some 5.40 miles thrown in towards the end, 91 for the week and legs seem fine.

     

  • JH 1JH 1 ✭✭✭

    CW - Happy birthday for tother day.

    TR - The first of the 20's is always tough. Have only done a couple of 19's and 1st 20 is this weekend, eek.

    Nice parkruns CD (within a 20), Al P and Padams.

    SL - Strong legs there with 5.40's lobbed in at the end of a long run and a 90m week.

    The usual good long runs being smacked out.

    Had a double race this weekend, Surrey league xc at Oxshott on sat was a 3 lapper and so many roots meant I twisted my ankle, when I was running alongside a guy from CD's club and I lost about 10s to him trying to run it off. Really hard to run to your ability due to the nature of the course and don't think I'm suited to xc running as you need to be more fleet footed.
    Sunday was an 8m hilly race in Windsor park using it within a 16m long run. Ran 4m there and did race at 5.50pace and ran back. Was supposed to do a 20 but I'll leave that until next week. 76 for the week and legs feeling ok. 

    What are people's thoughts on doubles, good/bad? First of my doubles are today and they are both supposed to be recovery runs.

  • TmothTmoth ✭✭✭

    Again I'm amazed by both speed and distances achieved by you serious runner types...i'm not going to go through and congratulate you all personally but bloody hell you all can run! Nice. The hope to emulate helps to motivate me no end....

    I wimped out of the park run option (will save that particular delight for future weeks), completed 15m in average 8.06s started slow and ramped up to final 4m in 7.45s... was a bit faster than Daniels would suggest on current VDOT (thanks CW) but taking advice and going by feel thats what happened - and after reading your responses to PL3s query i;m pleased it seems about right. Though snail like compared with you lot.

    Anyway wk 2 commenced this am with 8m with 10 x 100m strides on icy pavements...interesting. Certainly wakes you up on a Monday! 

    Belated birthday wishes CW and have a good week all ...will be reading with interest.

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    It's a bloody good job I'm not trying to run VLM as quick as possible or I'd be feeling a bit over-awed by all the 20+ milers going on this weekend.  Good work, marafunners!  As it is I did get back into double figures on Saturday with 11 miles (34 for the week), then 58 miles on the bike yesterday including some reasonably lumpy hills.  My "Winter" bike has been fitted out with a new headset, cassette and chain in the past week (the last set of everything showing signs of age after about 5,000 miles) and it makes it a lot more fun to ride when everything's functioning smoothly.

    CW - Happy birthday!

     

    HR - The best carrot cake I had recently was made by my cousin-in-law, and went down a treat 55 miles into an 84 mile ride, but I don't think it's commercially available.  image  I'm not vey familiar with the supermarket offerings.

    I'm kind of with you on Noakes. I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about whether wholesale dietary changes would do me good, and I can see the benefits of fat burning efficiency for marathon racing, etc. - and I can put on weight as quickly as the next person, especially when ill or injured - but at the end of the day  think you're right that the diet works ultimately because of food group restriction, and with the best will in the world I really can't see me being able to sustain a self-imposed restriction on cereal, pasta, bread, potatoes, rice, etc., not to mention regular (but in my mind, perfectly healthy in moderation) chocolate, beer, sugar in coffee, etc.  I just need to make sure I keep a lid on the bad stuff and stay very, very active!

  • I'll have to see who that was, JH1, but we don't have too many candidates for keeping up with you.  I'm with you on the XC, some seem to just skip over the ground but anything other than a smooth surface and I'm all over the place.  I wasn't too upset when the missus booked me up for saturday afternoon, especially when the race instructions suggested sprinting off the start or you were going to be stuck in traffic!  Sometimes the SPO comes in handy image

    Nice racing at Windsor too.

    I like the way SL just throws in some 5:40s for fun at the end of 22 miles.  Nice going.

    I did get out on the bike for a short one yesterday, legs a bit heavy but no real problem.  On Box Hill I passed a guy running pretty quick uphill, pushing a buggy.  He's won local parkruns doing that, frighteningly quick.

  • JH 1JH 1 ✭✭✭

    CD - I think it was Paul O. Tried to sprint from the start but there were still about 15 or so in front by the first 50m trudging through high grass and big pools of water. Some real hard bits on narrow track at end of each lap, my body was all over the place looking where to plant feet. Most xc races have a lot of younger guys at the front I notice, which is similar to track races.

  • HR -- I've just started reading this book about half/marathon nutrition (a birthday prezzie) and it's already taken apart the low-carb approach, at least during training. It promises there might be a place for it during the taper though (which I've toyed with in fact), though I've not read that far yet. Oh, and I baked a ginger cake to celebrate, but overdid it so it wasn't as gungy as I wanted. Fine heated up with ice cream though!

    Well raced JH1, hope the ankle is quiet after that.

    SL -- fantastic training.

  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭

    Glad to see one of our southern correspondents spreading the good word oop north - cheers Al P - nice win too.

    I'm in the middle of marathon training too (as usual), but for a bit of fun did the Country to Capital 45 mile race on Saturday.  Didn't taper or anything, so the 6h26 wasn't particularly rapid (about 25th place of 300 I think), and included some very slow plodding along between 30-40 miles before a late rally.  Front two were unbelievably quick (under 5 hours!!).

    Very enjoyable day out in relatively warm sunshine for a change.  Underfoot was a different matter with all the recent mud/rain/flooding, so road shoes presented plenty of challenges.  5 mile recovery yesterday to sort the legs out and straight back into it today.

    Last 10 weeks mileage have been 69, 77, 58, 58, 72, 79, 74, 90, 85, 83 - hope to nudge the ton over the next few weeks with Wokingham being the next target race.

  • X-post: nice one Dan, that 6hr26 would have got you a much higher place when I did it way back in 2010. Impressed that it barely broke your stride training-wise too.

  • ToroToro ✭✭✭

    Lots of great weekend running - well done folks.  Sounds like CW had fun (including the training marathon)!

    I have been forced to run a 1.1 mile loop for the past 3 days and it's killing me. 

    Sat     PM     4 Miles Easy (7:30)
    Sun    AM     2hrs Easy (16 Miles @ 7:30)
    Mon   0530   45 min Steady (6.7 miles @ 6:40)

    I feel "behind" as i'd done a 20 by this time last year but given my overall for Jan 13 was 120 miles and I have run over 90 miles so far I won't get too upset.  I am also training less than last year as I was IM training too.   

    63 for the week with lots of quality.  Running 7 days a week now and the 36 hours off are a joy!  A bit of a taper this week for Stubbington with a controlled effort on Wed at Abingdon sandwiched between the standard track sessions.  I'd still like to get close to 50 miles though and get a PB with TRimage  

  • I do doubles for no other reason than to get the mileage up.

    I don't know how some folks get up to 90 / 100 mpw without doing doubles ?!

    Having said that, I was going to do AM / PM runs today, just gone out & done 6 & am going to leave it at that for today, I'm not sure whether there are huge benefits in forcing yourself again later on if you don't really fancy it.

    I think doubles definitely toughen the legs up & make you battle hardened so to speak, but by the same token just as likely to kill any quality in your legs if you are already running on tired legs.

     

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