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AW -- nice parkrun sandwich there. And well won in yours CD.
Get well soon TR!
Bedders -- I like my fruit & veg, so pit stops during long runs are pretty standard (if annoying). My mantra before the big day though is "eat like a chav", virtually no fibre for the last 48 hours or so.
HR -- good quality long run, even if you didn't enjoy it! Why don't you stick plasters over your nips when it's likely to rain -- seems to be a recurring problem for you, but easily prevented. I wondered if the whole campaign was worth it last year, until the day went brilliantly and I was insufferably excited and happy about it for the next week...
On the taper front, my M and HM tapers are identical really -- a less than full-length run the week before (e.g. 14M with 6M at MP), then from about the Weds a 1M warm-up, then 2M quick... just 1M quick on Thurs... 0.5M quick on Fri... a few strides on Sat. I also carbo load a little for halves, just in case it helps.
Jools -- glad you had a strong XC.
CC2 -- I can't believe the national XC would have a 1-foot bottleneck! Maybe they'll dismantle the fence a bit for the day?
Sorry to those missing Wokingham. Maybe a crumb of comfort that it wouldn't have been PB weather, but could have been fun tactically with that wind.
Thanks bufo. I toyed with the idea of Wandlebury today but decided the gales and trees could be a bad mixture.
Instead I did another (10x fast ~1km lap (6:22/M), slow lap recovery) on the grass of Parker's Piece, then some general running around including a fair bit of off-road to gawp at the river, which is as high as I ever remember it. The extreme wind means I can't draw many conclusions from the reps, though I fear they were pretty slow, and I struggled at times to move forwards at all in the wind later on. But though the last 10M were slow (8:15/M), I didn't feel like I was bonking. Third training marathon bagged: total 26.4M in 3hr23 (7:43/M avg). Definitely need to work on speed now.
HR: I ran my half pb in marathon training the week after a 70 mile week which included a 21M LSR, so I don't think you need a big taper. If you're really targeting the HM, then reduce the LSR a week out and take 3 easy days before the race.
18M for me on knackered legs. Pace was a very unimpressive 8.23m/m, but I'm consoling myself with the fact it was on tired legs, on a hilly course and with 30mpw winds. Lovely. Means 58 for the week including 2 quality sessions. Still all going in the right direction, so generally positive.
HR, I'd go with what Jools said. A 10k runner moving up to a HM probably needs a lot more taper than a marathon runner moving down, so you'll get different answers depending on who you ask.
My ankle was a bit swollen & sore last night, I trod on a brick in the mud of yesterday's XC which forced my foot back on itself rather further than it's meant to go. Still swollen rather than sore this morning, but I played it safe by putting some miles in on the bike rather than running. No further damage done, I'll test it with a run tomorrow.
CW - Another impressive long run, definitely sounds like the endurance is there. Surprised how the river has changed since Thursday, seemed fairly normal then - quite nice weather (though slightly windy) for running today though.
HR - I'd probably taper similarly to a big xc race, so slightly shorter Sunday run and a easier session early in the week (something slightly faster than race pace and not going all out, maybe something like mile reps for a half) then easy/v. easy in the two days before the race with some strides. Could do a short bit of HMP a few days before as well. Have run pretty well training through races as well so never really sure how much a big taper helps/
Legs a bit tired before this morning's long run and felt hard work in the middle after a couple of quicker miles and a couple of very muddy and windy fields but seemed to feel better from 15 miles. 20.3 miles@6:32 min/mile avg. with the last 5 around 6:20.
81.84 miles for me this week including a rather bleak long SLOW run of 19.53 miles this morning, I never really got going. Ah well, you are going to have a few like that in any build up.
Great progressive 23 HR despite the weather. My PB for HM came during last years marathon campaign, didn't taper at all and it was a mid 60 mile week - weekend before ran a 22 with a chunk of MP too. I think though in hindsight if I had cut down a bit in the last few days I would have run a tad quicker.
Good xc and long run Jools.
Hope next weeks a better week for you TR.
Hope the ankle is ok CD.
Nice training marathon there CW.
And a good weekends training bufo, todays long run 20 on top of yesterday long run 18 with efforts!!
Good weeks total Steve6, and long run.
A move in to uncharted territory for me, 13 easy miles today took me into the 80's for the weeks mileage and 300's for the last 30 days. I'm doing more mileage with more quality than I've ever managed before and legs still feel like they can take a bit more. Hope it pays off!
Ow do
Some top stuff on here as ever, despite the lovely weather.
Great long runs from Bedders, HR, joolska, Steve6 CW and bufo. AW seems to ticking along very nicely too.
Good XCing from joolska and CD (and well done on the parkrun win too!)
Some interesting stuff re tapering for a Half. I've no idea. I set my very unexpected PB on a lumpy course last year, as part of a 22 mile run at the end of an 87 mile week. Textbook that.
Which leads onto Bunny's question. I think the answer to that is to do your own thing really, and try to work out your own ideal mileage through trial and error. I used to think I had to run far more to get my times down. I think that's true for most people but only up to a point. If you're too jaded to do your quality stuff then knock it back. What works for some (90+ weeks) would kill others. So have a play and don't worry too much.
Just over 21 for me this morning, in the howling wind. Felt like i was running on the spot at times! Still, that's the first 20+ I've done since I last did one, so all good. I saw runningowl out doing his own long one (24ish I think?) - he looked pretty strong and to be running well, so job done all round. Marvellous.
9st8 ,,, nearly got blown over today!, 21 bagged. Seem to be stuck in and around 60 mpw (for the last 15 weeks). Some great training going on. Nice marathon CW, nearly good for age if you were over 50.
AW - Similarly doing more miles than I've done before, think the key thing is working out how often you need to take a slightly easier week - I pushed it a bit too far trying to do 5 hard weeks in a row after Christmas and will keep it to blocks of 3 or 4 from now (which luckily matches race plans). Meant I ran well in races at the start of January but then had slight niggles and didn't do as well at BUCS.
Bunny - With increasing mileage just needs to be done fairly gradually and see how it goes, for most people I'd have thought more miles can only help especially for marathons (up to a point, less so for shorter distances when good sessions are more important). I've probably done it quicker than ideal (30-50 last winter, 60-90 summer to Christmas and now 90+) and if I hadn't had various aims for my last year at uni would have done it a bit more carefully but so far has been going ok. Have been doing a fair bit of injury prevention/core exercises which seems necessary at higher mileage but quite hard to tell if it does anything unless you stop and then get injured...
Not sure about tapering for a half that is really a tune up race for the full which in my case is 5 weeks I will hopefully go for it and try to get a pb but Paris is main aim. Last year ran a half 1.27 pb 3 weeks out from Berlin, then did the GNR the following week in 1.25.20. I think racing both those affected me in Berlin, I was knackered. My advice, for what it's worth HR, would be to make sure you're well recovered from a half pb attempt before you slip back into the business end of Marathon training. Reading is 6 weeks before London so there's time
Some more good long runs going on, inc. Jimbob, Jools, . You can tell it's a marathon training thread...
CW - reps and then a wander - sounds good. Didn't realise you were in Cambridge. Must be nice to run around (I only ever go for conferences).
HR - I echo others' comments. I tend to do a hard reps session on the Tuesday before a race, and then generally easy runs of 4-7 miles on the Wed, Thurs and Sat; the last one with a mile or so at race pace and strides. I find I have to do a bit of work in the preceding 48 hours, otherwise I just get lethargic.
Thanks for comments on the mileage. It's interesting how much variation there is, given we're all training for the same event. But genetics and time do a lot. And I'd rather run less miles, at this stage, and get round a tad slower, than do too many and get injured and not get round at all.
I survived the 10k league race this morning. Well, I ran a 20sec pb on a lumpy and windy course, but it didn't feel like a pb run. Every mile was hard work, including the downhills. Still, thems the ones that count the most, I think. Did mean I was rather surprised (and sceptical!) at the result.
22 miles in the gales for me. I didn't enjoy it one bit. Brings up 80 miles for the week and a cutback week beckons.
Nice long runs everyone, particularly in the conditions. It'll all be worth it in April!
About 2h40 yesterday, so probably about 20M given the terrain, weather and effort.
Didn't fancy going on the roads this morning as they're all flooded and the wind was ridiculous, so 3 hours on the turbo. Did it as warm-up, 5x20mins TR session (15mins steady then 5x30s hard/30s easy) then 10x1min hard/1min easy, cool down.
Overall power was good and pleased with the 1 min efforts at the end at around 340W (which felt hard at that point!).
21.1 in 2:56 for me today, never got going, but then I rarely do on a LR! 62 for the week with 2 days off and pleasing that injuries under control, got to make sure I don't get carried away this week or they'll be back.
HR - if it's an A race, I'd be careful with the LR, then echo others re: Mon-Wed short but usual effort, Thu-Sat easy.
excellent long runs, well done folks. I bet JH1 found it tough going today, it was blowing a gale down here !
Padams - glad to be of service.
HR - I kind of enjoyed the few long runs I did in the summer, so maybe you'll enjoy the 20s then rather than this time of year. Re the 1/2 mara, I had a really hard week before the IoW 1/2 in the summer and ran 1:22 (no taper) and only went 4mins quicker on a much faster course at Gosport tapered and trying hard. IoW was definitely a better performance. Its more about how fit you then how tapered, but marathon training fatigue will affect it. I was very fit in the summer.
Gobi - hopefully I'll be healthy by then !
expected zero carded here, so 7 in a row. I'm certainly no healthier than I was this time last week either. If i can be back to it by next weekend (who knows ? how long is a piece of man flu string ?) then I can have 6 weeks training and a 2 week taper, and should be able to keep the streak alive.
CW - Marathon number 3 wow (how many more), that's definitely overtime and about 45mins longer than race day. I only run as long as race day as 3hrs is a long time to be out.
TR - I needed someone like you to shield behind today, shame you couldn't make it and hope you can get over the illness soon.
I can vouch for there being some wind down here in Chichester and wasn't hopeful of a good time because of this. First time I've done a 10k in marathon build up but this one seemed too good a chance to miss due to the quality of the runners and normally a quick course. Training has been very consistent in last 10 weeks so knew the training had been done and decided I'd have a slight cutback week leading up to this (72m this week).
Had to change over my race shoes and timing chip with only a few minutes to go to the start, due to a blister on my little toe (built up over last week) causing some pain and went with the training shoes instead which were ok. Started a little way back as last year over 70 peeps were under 35min. 1st part of race starts up a little incline then opens up with a few turns. Tried not to go off too quick and worked on a couple of guys I knew and managed to tuck into a couple of small groups leading up to 3k. Quite a few gusts hit us about 4k and group started splintering a bit. I managed to push on a bit to get to another couple of guys going through 5k in 17.18ish. There was a hill somewhere around 6k which slowed my pace along with some more big gusts and lost about 10-15m to 3rd lady and guy in front. At 7k we turned for the home straight and right into the wind for the last 3k. Worked on catching the guy and lady even though I was finding it hard now on my own. Through 9k in around 31.20 and in the last k put my head down and got back to them and for the sprint finish, managed to get past the lady but the fella pipped me at the line. Result a nice pb of 34.41 (over 20s) which I'm well pleased with considering the conditions and got 3rd M40 and a £70 shop running voucher for my troubles.
All times were down this year, no sub 30's and only 10 sub 32's (20 last year) and 55 sub 35's (compared to 73). Surely a low 34 would have been on the cards in better conditions but am happy all the same. Oh and the ribs didn't seem to affect me during the race and only a little bit on my cool down. Bramley next week but only 10steady and 10@mp.
JH1 that's an absolutely top performance in those conditions. To pb in this & to step off the podium with £70 of vouchers: big result.
Some other fantastic training going on, in tough conditions.
Thanks so much for the responses about the HM preparation. Really interesting to see a consensus, with only minor variations. That's quite unusual on here because there are often, rightly, different needs and methods. So that consensus gives me confidence: will follow the advice from you all and have a go.
JH1 - great result considering your recent injury. As the person on this thread over the years whose progress and PBs most closely resemble my own, perhaps I'll take a vicarious 10k PB too!!
I went down to the Deal half today, as a late sub for Wokey. Original plan for Wokingham was a PB run in the 1.17 or quicker range to give me confidence I'm on track for my marathon. However, the course & conditions today left more questions than answers.
In 15 years of racing, it was probably the hilliest half I've done, and by some way the windiest. First 6 miles were into a 40 mph headwind. Ridiculous, and struggled to stay upright at times. Got to 5 miles having given it loads in 33 mins (was 29.00 at Wokingham last year), and was tempted to just sack it off and jog back as I was absolutely knackered. Reckon there were a couple of 8 min miles from 4-6. But turned round at halfway with a bit of wind behind and felt a bit more upbeat.
Despite some hard hills and more crosswinds, I ran the second half more than three mins quicker and managed to reel in a guy at the 13 mile marker who was a minute ahead back at mile five. Gave it plenty out there, but finish time was only 1.24.00 (more than six mins slower than PB), but actually finished in 6th place and 1st Vet (my first ever cash prize!!). Even second place was only 1.19 and the winner said he was 5 mins+ down on the time he was targeting at Wokingham.
Couldn't have gone any harder, but the time is now pretty irrelevant. Most annoyingly, I don't have the confidence boosting half to tell me I'm on track despite being (I think) in top form. Will have to go into the mara "blind" so to speak. A good tough workout, but not the one I was hoping to have. Oh well...
Congrats on the pb and podium place, JH1.
Sounds like a tough day, DanA, but if times were at least 5 mins down, then a good result.
JH1 - excellent, well worth the trip then. You would have been low 34s on a better day weather wise too. I wouldnt have been anyhwere near fast enough to have been your windbreak.
DanA - nice one, sounds like a Pugometer sub80 reading then, although I'm not sure any build up race times would affect your marathon day pace schedule, I'm pretty sure its going to balls to the wall and hang on.
Dan. Well run. I did warn you.
if you want a really hilly course you should try the Canterbury half.
Well done racers!
Cracking PB in tough conditions JH1.
It sounds like a good race DanA given the course and the weather.
JH1 - fantastic to get a PB in those conditions, sounds like you're on top form.
Dan - seems like a decent result given conditions/course. You're experienced enough to know if you're on form or not without needing a fast HM to tell you that. (Although your form seems to bear no relation to your marathon result anyway!)
Dan A - Sounded like pretty awful conditions, enough to knock anyone and placing top vet and 6th shows it wasn't just you. Have you got any races before the mara?
Had to cycle into work today as work car park closed due to imminent flooding. Work right next to river in Staines and 3 of my ways in are blocked due to flooding. Hope I can get home tonight....
Lovely PB JH1(hope you brought a paddle)– very nice in the conds. Similarly DanA – sounds like a toughy but nae bother to ya. HR; seriously man plaster up – no need for the bleeding nips. No gain from that particular pain.
Good long uns CC2 and TJB and all the rest – CW another marathon? Why not!
8 with strides smorning, back to the dark streets. Lethargic slow miles, strides were ok but rest was slooow.
kowtow
Fantastic stuff JH1! Well done!
Sounds like a toughie Dan, but nicely done on the position and prize. You're experienced enough to know that if you feel like you're in good form then you are. You don't need a HM time to confirm it.
Nice one CW.
BunnyPhobia - with mileage everybody is different. Some can just hammer out big miles almost straight from the off whereas others get injured as soon as they even think about bigger miles. FWIW, I think it's better to know your optimal range than your maximal one, but also to know that both ranges will move over time (down or up) depending on circumstances.
Tmoth - it's supposed to be a good course. I'll hopefully do it at some stage. I may have a spin around Waterford Mara this year for fun (where I went to uni) as I'll be over at the same time.
HR - fwiw, I've never tapered for a HM, but if I were racing one my ex-coach would lighten things up a little (bear in mind that this is when I was doing more mileage, so this week was a little over 100m including the daily additional jogs), which typically went like this:
Mon: 20 x 1min fast/1min slow / Tues: 1:40 easy / Wed: 5k TT (about 10k pace) / Thurs: 2hrs easy / Fri: 10 x 100m hill sprints / Sat: 1hr jog / Sun: race
My Amsterdam taper which worked well for me was:
Fri: (week before): 10 with 6m @ MP / 6m easy
Sat: off / Sun: 12m progressive
Mon: 10 with 2 x 1/2m fast, 1 x 1m fast - 1m easy between each.
Tue and Wed: both very easy/jogging doubles (8/6, 8/4).
Thurs: 7-8 with 3m @ ~ race effort
Fri: 4 jog / Sat: 4 jog with strides
Sun: race.
I've found a 3m tempo on the Friday, followed by something like 8 x 30s fast /30s float on the Saturday works quite well for me for HM (with the volume/structure of the other days being set based on your aim for the HM). Another variation of the above really.
Well done to all of those bagging long runs yesterday. With mine done during the week I only ran 12 yesterday, but with a 4m tempo (managed to find some shelter for most of it, but the 3rd mile was fully straight into a headwind which was taking off ~15s per mile). It did bring up my first ton of the year (108m), so another 6 like that, with similar improvements across the week, before 9 weeks of Edinburgh focus would be very nice please.
TT - superb mileage
Padams - fair point
JH1 - doing a mara on March 16th in five weeks, so only 4 weekends between now and then. Which means, long run, long run, 90 min half (pacing at Silverstone), something easy. No time to fit in another race and deliberately avoiding a 20 at Bramley (as I tend not to convert well). Hopefully 3 x 100 mile weeks and two weeks taper. If that doesn't work then I'll have to ask some serious questions as to whether it's worth doing this winter marathon training year in, year out.
JH1 -- you did brilliantly to PB if the wind was like it was round here yesterday morning. I was looking back at my training log by the way and most of my extra long runs last year were 27M not 26 -- I've been slacking! The idea is that I'm fully adapted for increased fat burning and won't fear the full distance.
DanA -- given the course and wind, that was probably excellent. How about stalking recent results for those who finished close to you on po10 to get an indirect measure of where you are? And congrats on the prize.
TT -- 108M, golly.
bufo/LS21/AW/BP -- I have definitely been getting to the point where the miles have left me too jaded for decent quality. Like CC2 I've started my cutback week, with another day off (except for some extra bike miles) today. I want to have a non-jaded crack at my MLR reps/tempo combo on Weds/Thurs to get an idea of where I am compared to last year; looking back at my training log so far, the answer seems to be "slower but doing more miles early in the campaign".
JH1, what a PB in those conditions! Great stuff. Is there anything particular behind your recent top form, or simply a case of consistent training?
Dan A, sounds like a gigantic pain in the arse of a HM. An exposed hilly half in yesterday morning’s wind sounds like the kind of punishment you might get in classical fables. Any thoughts on how it relates to a proper PB course are just total guesswork, so no point dwelling on it.
Nice mileage TT and AW, and good long runs Padams, CC2, Jimbob, LS21, Steve6, bufo, Jools and another casual training marathon from CW. Hope TR can get back amongst the miles soon.
My intention of replacing Wokingham with 20 with 12@MP was thwarted when I simply couldn’t be bothered to get out of bed. I promised I’d do it later, but ended up spending most of the day fighting a losing battle with a TV wall bracket. In the end I only had time for a quick-ish 13.2 in the evening (done at 6:19 pace, so MP plus 5%) to bring up only 54 for the week due to pointless tapering. I backed it up with another 12 this morning though, at 7:20 pace, so that’s over 25 at a sub-7 average within 15 hours, so it’s not too bad I suppose. Will try to do the proper session later this week, if I can find a time when he prevailing weather isn’t emerging directly from Satan’s arsehole.
You've probably all read about UK washing record holder Steve "I'll wash them tomorrow" Jones doing 100 mile weeks in the same unwashed kit, or maybe the legendary non washing streak by Ron "What do you mean there's no such thing as the washing fairy" Hill, but that's just not my style. Granted, I do like to get a couple of runs out of some items, maybe even 3 or 4 runs if I'm really stretching things. Besides, I don't sweat in winter so that's ok, right?
Anyway, I've been washing my own clothes for quite a few years now and I'm looking to make that next big breakthrough in cleanliness and softness. I know back in the day they didn't have all the technology and science behind washing that we do now so I figure I should take advantage of it. I'm sure if our fathers and fore-fathers had similar technology to us then their clothes would have been even cleaner and softer.
My dilemma is simple, or so it would appear on the face of it. What colour washing machine should I get? I'm torn between a black one and a white one, though I'm led to believe there are other colours available. I've been told that the black ones are "cool" but I'm yet to actually touch one to see if it is in fact "cool" or if it radiates any warmth. Does anyone have one near by that they can touch?
I've also been looking at many of the washing plans available online and they vary dramatically. Some advocate you should wash twice a day every day, with a couple of fast spin cycles during the week and a long cycle on the weekend, whilst others offer up a "get by on what you can" type plan. I'd be interested to hear how others manage their weekly washing and whether the plan I look to adopt should in fact influence the washing machine colour I buy?
The last burning question I have is what would happen if you put a fishcake into the respective black and white machine? We'll assume it's a dark coloured fishcake for this example. Would it come out as a light fishcake in both cases or would the exterior colour of the machine influence the end result with the black one producing the same dark fishcake and the white one producing a light fishcake?
On a more serious note, I am actually looking for a washing machine that has the ability to pump around 5-6m which is considerably longer than the usual(?) 1-3m. Suggestions?
Apologies for airing my dirty laundry in here and I hope nobody is agitated by the content of my above post.
As clean as you weren't (© CRaB)