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Fartleks today for me, took it easy to start with because of recent injuries and current foot arch pain which was worse today, but all went well and included a 5:43 mile, foot pain seemed much better running fast than walking! Was going to rest instead of MLR tomorrow, but will probably do it after all.
Longest midweek run last three weeks were 15/13.5/13.5 - was thinking 12 tomorrow or is that too much ... what is sensible in first taper week ?
The site doesn't seem to like the greater than sign. Supposed to be greater than 80 and greater than 90 although maybe that's hair-splitting.
impressive HR, good to come through that fit and raring to go
impressive stats HR, I forgot that you are backing up Abo too, could be nice return on investment coing your way.
Piman - I think that PnD still has something like a midweek 14 this week.
I noted that marathon Coach Steve was telling someone else on another thread that has had a disrputed build up like me that they could do a 20 two weeks out and 15 one week out as long runs (as long as they are slow). I would usually do something like a 15 or 16 and a 12, but am up for trying something new.
TR when i did Stokholm off an 8 week build up after a ski injury (but some residual fitness from a good 2010 with 2 marathons for sure) i did a 20 2 weeks out and just took first half of race very steady and managed an unexpected sub 3 with a v nice negative split - unheard of for me!
I know we do favour even pacing, but personally if i was going for sub 2:45 for the first time, i'd want to bank a bit more than going through in 82. I looked back at abingdon and see i went through half way in 80:52. so i slowed a bit (although it included a pit stop) in 2nd half.. but i am glad i had that little bit in bank as my miles 23/24/25/26 were all slipping off pace. Maybe those in the CW camp though won't face this. And maybe they wouldn't have if i hadn't gone off too punchy - but tbh i was running to HR that day so don't think i was pushing it. Anyway, sorry to stir the pot - decide what u want to do, and stick with it i reckon!!!
PI Man - the plan (for Milan) is to go out at 2.58 pace and see how it goes from there, if I've anything left in the tank towards the end I'll push it, but I'm utterly terrified of going out too fast, imploding and blowing my chance of sub-three.
PP - Aye I've been onto RW about it, will give it to the end of the week then they're going to chase it up. I'm thinking the same strategy as you regards the pacing, was planning to run around 3.28 pace so there's a bit of a margin for error!
My last 'double' (AM and PM) session today, morning was 8 miles at an aerobic pace, then swift 5K at RP in the afternoon. Trying to dial into the race-pace these last few weeks to make it as natural as possible.
Every kid at school seems to have some form of cold at the moment, trying to avoid the plagued individuals as best I can. I'm also trying to come up with an excuse to get out of a school trip next Tuesday (5 days pre-Milan) which involves us walking the kids on a 6 mile round-trip into the City Centre. You can guarantee it'll be pissing down too!
Nichs - I'm here!
HR - I was aiming for 2:45 at Manchester last year. Went through the first half in 1:21:30 and the second in 1:22:45. Obviously had a bit of time to spare so 82 would be sensible
Dachs - looks like we'll be aiming for a similar time. Hope I'm not being too optimistic after just reading your 10k PB (on a poor day) is 30 seconds quicker than mine!
Dachs 2:37 (A) / 2:39:59 (B), blue (Champs)
Jonny 2:37:00 (A) / 2:39:59 (B) 2:44:14 (PB) (C) (Champs)
CharlieW 2:39:59 (a) 2:42 (b) blue #637 Sweedo 2:42 (a), 2:44.59 (b) red fgfa
Yasunaga 2:43, red fgfa
Bainspj 2:44 (a) 2:50 (b), red fgfa ,#31013
HR 2:44, red fgfa, #32515
A.W 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31745
Old No7 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31682
Pi Man 2:58, red fgfa, #31153
Tmoth – (A) TBC pending greed/fitness/fear levels / 2:59:59 (B) (Belfast May 5th)
Le Jimbob (A) 2:59 (B) 3.02 (C) PB sub 3:05:37 Rouge (Paris)
PhilPub 2:59, green, #27081
Bedders - 2:59:59 (Orange start 'Corral #1 in Milan)
They handed out cherry flavoured (yum) jelly beans in VLM 11 (on Narrow St), so I had those and used them again last year and got a packet for this year. They have 50mg caffeine per 28g packet - is that comparable to a gel?
Thanks TR, I've only done 13.5 last two weeks, so I guess 12 sounds sensible.
Don't want to see Bubka-esque sub 3 aspirants undeservedly at the bottom of the list so thought it only fair to prop the list up...
Dachs 2:37 (A) / 2:39:59 (B), blue (Champs)
Jonny 2:37:00 (A) / 2:39:59 (B) 2:44:14 (PB) (C) (Champs)
CharlieW 2:39:59 (a) 2:42 (b) blue#637
Sweedo 2:42 (a), 2:44.59 (b) red fgfa
Yasunaga 2:43, red fgfaBainspj 2:44 (a) 2:50 (b), red fgfa ,#31013
HR 2:44, red fgfa, #32515
A.W 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31745
Old No7 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31682
Postie not the foggiest but hopefully under 2:50 #32839 red fgfa
Pi Man 2:58, red fgfa, #31153
Tmoth – (A) TBC pending greed/fitness/fear levels / 2:59:59 (B) (Belfast May 5th)
Le Jimbob (A) 2:59 (B) 3.02 (C) PB sub 3:05:37 Rouge (Paris)
PhilPub 2:59, green, #27081
Bedders - 2:59:59 (Orange start 'Corral #1 in Milan)
Wardi - 3:15-3:20 (old codger's GFA time)
Pi Man.. I carry Lucozade jelly beans around VLM in a pocket, don't get on with gels.
Bedders.. you sound cautious enough to nail it! Best of luck with the bug avoidance.
HR.. some fantastic looking weeks of miles there. BTW I am running VLM in a green MacMillan charity vest this year so will add my grey/green Lunar Racers to accessorise properly!
4.3 + 7m today. Looking forward to the wind down.
Wardi, now you're talking!
Dachs 2:37 (A) / 2:39:59 (B), blue (Champs)
Jonny 2:37:00 (A) / 2:39:59 (B) 2:44:14 (PB) (C) (Champs)
CharlieW 2:39:59 (a) 2:42 (b) blue#637
Sweedo 2:42 (a), 2:44.59 (b) red fgfa
Yasunaga 2:43, red fgfaBainspj 2:44 (a) 2:50 (b), red fgfa ,#31013
HR 2:44, red fgfa, #32515
A.W 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31745
Old No7 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31682
Postie not the foggiest but hopefully under 2:50 #32839 red fgfa
Pi Man 2:58, red fgfa, #31153
Tmoth – (A) TBC pending greed/fitness/fear levels / 2:59:59 (B) (Belfast May 5th)
Le Jimbob (A) 2:59 (B) 3.02 (C) PB sub 3:05:37 Rouge (Paris)
PhilPub 2:59, green, #27081
Bedders - 2:59:59 (Orange start 'Corral #1 in Milan)
Nichs2 - 3:10
Wardi - 3:15-3:20 (old codger's GFA time)
TR: checking my Frankfurt build-up I did 23M 3 weeks out, 20M 2 weeks out and 13M 1 week out when I was in catch-up mode.
Things are a bit hectic at work, so I'll simply admire the list and hope that everyone is enjoying the taper
Ah what the hell. Yasunaga I'm going to try and stay with you on 2:43. What do you reckon to trying for 81'30 - 81'45 and seeing if we can just -ve split it? Had a very interesting convo last night about the London course. The comment was that you can afford to drop 15s in the first few miles and then regain it on the downhill: but no faster pickup or the quads will suffer later. I was directed to Paula Radcliffe's 2003 WR splits which make very interesting reading: http://www.paularadcliffe.com/stats/splits.php
Anyway my taper isn't going to be cotton wool. Again, chatted with a couple of people and I'm sticking to something pretty close to the P&D 85+ taper with slightly less mileage in the final week. I'm pretty sure by now that going 5m, 4m, 4m in the final 3 days is enough rest for me.
Edit just seen Joolska's post above and I think that's really interesting. It just shows that we might set too much store by 'rest' when the slight cut back is enough. Such a great performance from you. I heard about another guy who tried for years to go sub 2h40 and only finally did it when he ran London as part of a training run in a heavy mileage week
So, trimming another minute off my target, but that's it. And if I blow it at least I'll have tried. I'll probably never be in this shape again so I may as well smack it out. Memo to self though:. do NOT attempt 2:3x on the day ...
Dachs 2:37 (A) / 2:39:59 (B), blue (Champs)
Jonny 2:37:00 (A) / 2:39:59 (B) 2:44:14 (PB) (C) (Champs)
CharlieW 2:39:59 (a) 2:42 (b) blue#637
Sweedo 2:42 (a), 2:44.59 (b) red fgfa
Yasunaga 2:43, red fgfaBainspj 2:44 (a) 2:50 (b), red fgfa ,#31013
HR 2:43, red fgfa, #32515
A.W 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31745
Old No7 2:44.59 (a) / 2:49.59 (b), red fgfa #31682
Postie not the foggiest but hopefully under 2:50 #32839 red fgfa
Pi Man 2:58, red fgfa, #31153
Tmoth – (A) TBC pending greed/fitness/fear levels / 2:59:59 (B) (Belfast May 5th)
Le Jimbob (A) 2:59 (B) 3.02 (C) PB sub 3:05:37 Rouge (Paris)
PhilPub 2:59, green, #27081
Bedders - 2:59:59 (Orange start 'Corral #1 in Milan)
Wardi - 3:15-3:20 (old codger's GFA time)
Oh and gels. Much trial and error. Didn't use them at Abo and suffered. I took jelly beans and choked badly: just couldnt get them down.
I've become a fan of the smaller GU gels which are much thicker. If you hold the gel in your mouth I find it goes down ok. They pack a decent punch.
Re. caffeine, it seems to be a performance enhancing drug but does anyone know of studies on the effect on HRM during endurance sports? Just curious as amongst other things caffeine raises heart rate doesn't it?
Just a little check in. Still lurking but find it difficult to contribute regularly.
Training going ok. Been struggling in the 20M races (Finchley and Bramley) to even get any miles to hit MP (6.06) and I’ve felt I’ve died in the last few miles where I should be pushing on. However, I was pleased with 2nd place at Cranleigh 15 in 1.31 which felt comfortable. Prediction: Don’t think I can sub 2.40 so I think I’ll try for another 2.43 effort which will be my 4th in five years at London !
Great to see everyone on the verge of taper madness. I'm not analysing this year, as last year I will enjoy the day and be happy with whatever.
As I understand it, you do have the option to not wear a club vest on the champs start (and still be part of the champs race) if you don't have a full team. The club vest is only a requirement for the clubs part of it, rather than the individual element. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it when I looked at it before.
Nice stats HR. Confidence boosting I would have thought!
On the taper front HR, my last 9 weeks pre-Amsterdam were: 103, 87, 104, 71, 105, 88, 94, 87 (incl a 20m with some surges), 78 (incl race), so not a massive reduction in volume. I think the key for me is to reduce the intensity rather than the volume.
Can some of the cyclists on here give me some idea of the nutrition required for a 100m ride (not me, a workmate - he'll be out for a lot longer than you guys I would have thought) please?
TT cool: I've still got your Amsterdam taper details here to hand! So that's another one proving the point. I think if you've had a high volume campaign your body is used to running a lot. For instance since my race I will have gone 6m, 13m, 13.7m, 16m with no ill effects and I feel fine, just tired. What you say about cutting back the intensity makes a lot of sense.
Personally I love the feeling of the first few miles of VLM when my legs feel unbelievably fresh.
(Is the downhill bit at VLM mile 3? Think it saves 10-15 secs from memory?)
Selbs/Jools - thanks, 20 it is Sunday then.
Went looking for a sign today. This time last year I did 10M av 6:36 (with commuting gear) and then ran steady 6:40s all the way at VLM. I nearly sacked it off today (and binned VLM) as I was struggling after a few miles, but stuck with it and it settled down and ended up with 10 av 6:33 (no commuting kit), could have run another 2 or 3 aerobically, but my legs didn't like any of it, and the hammys grumbled (hammy cramp always gets me at VLM). So hopefully I can aim somewhere around 6:30 to 6:40 and hang on for as long as I can.
TT how fit is the 100 mile guy? I'd carb load as for a marathon & have a big bowl of porridge for breakfast. If he is endurance trained he'll get away without eating much en route, but if it's his first time covering that distance, play it safe and keep grazing. Cycling doesn't give you the shits like running does and it's easy to stash a few snacks in your pockets
HR - its supposed to be a taper not a rest, the last week is the only week of the year when I try to run every day.
TT - cycling takes more calories than running due to the power component. he'll need a few flapjacks/bars, maybe malt loaf or a sandwich. He's looking at a few decent snacks IMO. I've only ever gone as far as 70M though.
TR great stuff! Could we be about to see a performance that tears up the script?
LD my worst perfomances have generally come from feeling sluggish = too much cutback. I know that if I take a rest day my running suffers for two or three days after: edit see TR's comment above with which I very much concur. The other danger, for me being a porky, is eating correspondingly too much, or at least too far out. But maybe it's simply horses for courses. I guess the point is that if you're pushing out 80mpw+ week after week then cutting to something like 55mpw/35mpw in the last fortnight looks about right.
TT, is this for a 100 mile time trial (unlikely that someone doing those would be asking on here about nutrition!), a sportive-type event where there'll be refuelling stops, or a self-supported ride? Whatever though, regular grazing would be the way to go. Malt loaf is an easy option, I often take a bag of raisins on such rides - whatever you can fit in your pockets, basically. There's no need to spend a fortune on fancy energy bars and the like, but have a variety of stuff - if he's out there for hours eating the same stuff he'll be sick of it long before the end. Most important is a bit of cash, there's always a garage or corner shop to re-stock.
Nice stats HR – some work you’ve put in! All this taper talk making me feel ahead of myself – still 6 (well 5.5) weeks to go for me so not tapering anytime soon....
Commute double yesto with 5 to work and 6 with 5x600s ave 2:03 (purty much maximal effort) home. Then 14.63 (grrr) MLR at 5:30am smornin.
kowtow
And I know they're pretty hot on this, analysing video footage before the Champs team results are made official. We benefited from an upgrade a couple of years ago (not when I was in the team, mind) because one of the other clubs' runners wasn't wearing his club top. Oops!
I'll go with CW on the bike nutrition front. It's rare that I get up to that sort of mileage on the bike and if I do it's usually a long leisurely ride where I can have a good couple of pit stops and eat proper food. If I had to do 100 miles non-stop I'd probably head out with a bottle of Lucozade Sport, couple of Nutrigrain bars and a banana. (And be craving a chocolate bar and more sugary drink from a garage on the way home!)
I know I'm not marathon training "proper" but I'll be doing a final 20 this weekend before a two week taper. I don't feel like I'm coming down from particularly heavy mileage, last five weeks being 54, 63, 43, 51, 65 (although total exercise time is at an all-time high) so that should be plenty. The national relay sits in the middle, so I'll be freshening up for that anyway, then an enforced rest Thu/Fri/Sat before the race when I'm in Amsterdam attempting to be sensible on the booze.
Cheers all; I shall pass him on your comments which I am sure will be greatly appreciated.
For info, it's the Prudential Ride London-Surrey 100m, so not until the 10th of August which gives him plenty of time to get fit. He has run a few marathons before, and done a bit of cycling, so the concept of what he's attempting isn't alien to him, but he has never done anything this long before, which is why he is trying to understand the nutrition required. I have to admit I was tempted to have a crack at it too but it clashes with other stuff for me.
LD - it's a fair point about erring on the side of caution with tapering, but that is there or thereabouts the same for training generally - better to be a little undertrained than over-trained or injured. As for whether to cut quality or quantity, I posit that it depends on your physiological make up. If you have more slow twitch than fast-twitch fibres cutting quality probably works better than quantity.
HR - yeah, if you look at that you'll see I ran {2 x 1/2m and 1 x 1m} on Monday, then took it very easy until Thursday when I ran 7+ with 3m @ ~Mara effort and just a few strides on the Saturday and that was it for the intensity.
Yes nice one TT. I've got it set alongside P&D 85+ for a hybrid. Storming performance from you at that race.
Wardi forgot to respond: you're doing well. So pleased after that downer you hit last year. Love the sound of the outfit. I'll probably be in all black unless it's blazing hot (as per avatar) but with pink shoes and a photo of David & PAPYRUS if I can get myself time to sort it. Not sure whether to put that on the front or back. Decisions.
Sorry meant to ask: P&D calls for ‘8-15k tune up race’ later this and in a couple of weeks on my schedule– any advice (please) on what would be a decent alternative workout?
kowtow
This is the first time I have committed to a list since 2007 and HR chops me off! It's a sign ...