P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread 2014

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  • Defo get yourself checked out andrews - good for the peace of mind!

    I need to get checked out really, but not sure where i would start with the doctors. If I was a car I would traded in and taken to the scrappy!

    more weights today image strength is going well but running is going bad. Perhaps I should be on a bodybuilding forum rather than a running forum (except my bodybuilding is worse than my running - might have to stick here sorry people.)

  • Hi all,



    Half way through my first P&D (18/55) and so far so good. Just wanted to check what others are doing for their GA pace. I've calculated mine to be 8:36+/mi, based on a 3:15 marathon target. I've always done my steady runs at 8min/mile pace and just wondered if I'd worked it out right.



    If so, do I stick at my usual 8min pace or slow and follow the P&D to the letter?



    Happy running!



    Steve
  • SGB1953SGB1953 ✭✭✭

    ST2 - Chapter 7 discusses target paces. There's a section for general aerobic runs which says they should be 15-25% slower than marathon race pace. If my arithmetic is correct, then for a 3:15 finish your target race pace is 7:27 minutes per mile, so your general aerobic runs should be at 8:36 to 9:18 minutes per mile. I think a lot of people, me included, find running that much slower than target marathon pace quite hard, but perhaps that's my mistake!  

    Personally I think 8 minute miling would be a lot too fast for your target. 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    I played a football match last night for the first time in many years ... I can barely walk today. Certainly found a few muscles that aren't trained by running in straight lines. Oooch.

     

  • MadbeeMadbee ✭✭✭
    Slow for GA, Steve. I was quite shocked to see how slow they were meant to be, I run them about 30 secs slower than long run pace, but most of them have strides as you get further in, so the average pace comes down a little.



    Should have been 4 miles recovery for me today but on holiday in the Cairngorms and couldn't resist a cheeky 9 miler in the hills. Mixed in a bit of walking so it was super slow, but so beautiful, and nice not to have an agenda!
  • SGB - thanks for pointing that out.

    I have been running my GA's between 8:00 - 8:10 / mm. Based on your notes I need to be between 8:17 - 9:00.

    Must try harder! It looks as if this is a common problem. Will read chapter 7 later, the OH will be looking forward to another running discussion...

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    For what it's worth I don't really stick to the suggested paces for my GA/easy runs. My GA's are probably ran at about the same pace as my MLR's and LR's, start fairly slow and pick up pace as go along. All really depends how I'm feeling.  When in the middle of tough training if I feel like my legs are close to breaking point I'll run them slow; and I try and make sure I keep all my easy runs real slow.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    The pace thing might be misleading if you're not an elite runner, as the %age of pace creates much wider gaps as your min per mile race pace increases. 

    For my last marathon my target was 3:15 and I ran around the 8 min per mile mark.  I used the HR guidance for this, staying within the 60 to 70 percent of HRR that's also mentioned in the description of a GA run.  This seems right as its described as a "moderate effort" run, whereas 8:30 to 9:00 min would be more recovery run pace for me.

     

  • veester: shame about the bike fall!

    Its good to see I'm not the only one that appears to run GA way too quick. I ran these at around 8min mile pace for a sub 3.30 marathon. However this felt nice and easy at the time so guess theres nothing too wrong with that.

    Busy couple of days for me, off to Wembley tonight to see England, then park run tomorrow and Wembley again for Froch v Groves before either a local 10km race on Sunday or just a 6-8mile run image

  • MadbeeMadbee ✭✭✭
    I think you're right stutyr if your heart rate stays in the right range, but be careful running without hr monitoring on that basis... Scott, 8mm is marathon pace for a 3:30 - seems a bit quick!
  • Yeah I know Madbee, although next mara going for sub 3.15. Definitely going to have to sort out paces for sessions especially with the increased mileage this time around running those runs too quickly could completely ruin the plan!

  • FergFerg ✭✭✭
    15West wrote (see)

    For what it's worth I don't really stick to the suggested paces for my GA/easy runs. My GA's are probably ran at about the same pace as my MLR's and LR's, start fairly slow and pick up pace as go along. All really depends how I'm feeling.  When in the middle of tough training if I feel like my legs are close to breaking point I'll run them slow; and I try and make sure I keep all my easy runs real slow.

    Same here for me.

  • MileMarkerMileMarker ✭✭✭

    Looking back, my GA''s came out at an average of  7.45mm but like 15W said tended to vary as to how the legs were feeling that day, with some days, mid campaign, much slower. The key I found was to make sure the pace left the legs as ok as they could be for the next quality session.

    Enjoy the football parkrun boxing sandwich Scott, not jealous at all image

  • booktrunkbooktrunk ✭✭✭

    Surprised myself with a 59 minute 10k tonight image which after a month of my heaviest ever mileage was a nice surprise.

  • Doing dublin marathon this october using the 18/55..

    think my mileage base is good as ive been doing 30-45 miles per week regular since mid february which included speed workouts hill reps,LT runs etc..

    reading the book again for second time to refresh on key info before i kick off with training on 23rd june...
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    BT - image

    Nice to see some newbies on here, keep with it,

    Shane - that's a good base to start form. Need some history and target times from you.

    +2 for 15W re paces for easy and GA runs.

    Struggling with calf still. A bit of rest may be in order me thinks. Bugger.image

  • Thanks for all you replies re: GA pacing, really helpful and fairly conclusive. Think I will just run them on feel, making sure not to drop below P&D target pace but not worrying if it's a bit quicker.



    Thanks again,



    Steve
  • Dublin marathon 2013. 3.52



    Half marathon may 2014 1.30



    10k april 2014 40.56



    5k parkrun (very hilly) 21.05



    Done dublin last year using higdons novice 2 plan.

    Been running now 2 year come august

    Age 41..
  • Havent decided what time to aim for..initiallyi was going toaim for sub 3.30 but mc millan running calculator reckons i could do a 3.07 marathon based on my HM time
  • Dublin marathon 2013. 3.52



    Half marathon may 2014 1.30



    10k april 2014 40.56



    5k parkrun (very hilly) 21.05



    Done dublin last year using higdons novice 2 plan.

    Been running now 2 year come august

    Age 41..
  • Useful stuff re: the GA pacing. For the first time I'm gonna try running them as slow as suggested so good to hear that's on the right track AND that other people find it difficult to remain slow(er).

    Well my elbow swelled right up last night, I was a bit worried but iced it for ages and by morning it looked relatively normal. Did 8 GA as I was running a bit late and other than a bit of post-fall stiffness, felt ok.

    Thankfully the fall was more embarrassing than anything else. I did see my running future flash before my eyes as I tumbled thoughimage
  • I echo the advice given on GA times and think I will tend to follow most of you and just run on feel. 

    Welcome sausage roll-shane image 

    Great start to my footballl, run, boxing, run weekend with England winning tonight image

  • FergFerg ✭✭✭

    Morning all, on what is shaping up to be a scorcher of a day image.

    13 miles for me this morning which will see the end of a truncated and not very well adhered to Mesocycle 5. History has shown that I'm ready to get back to 'proper' training after about 3 weeks, so that means week 1/18 for Chester starts on Monday.

    Mennania wrote (see)

    Reps today for me managed 18 x 1miles at 5.30 pace off 15 sec recoveries - legs are a bit tired now though

    Mennania, I hope that your DOMS isn't too bad after your easy interval session yesterday. I'll probably do the same on Tuesday, but with 10 second recoveries. 15 seconds seems a bit light to me...

    Hope that everyone enjoys their runs and races today image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Morning all. Dog walk then 17miles for me this morning.

     

  • MadbeeMadbee ✭✭✭
    Morning all. A massive fry-up and no miles for me this morning. Am I doing it wrong?



    Hi Shane, good to have you with us image



    BT, great stuff! I knew all the mileage would make you speedy!
  • SGB1953SGB1953 ✭✭✭

    Shane - Welcome. With that 10k and Half-marathon time a site like vdot would indeed predict under 3:10 for a marathon. I don't know the Dublin course, though I was tempted to enter it last year and 2012. If it's only your second and you've only been running for two years then I'd be tempted to aim for 3:20. Also you're young and have a few years of improvement ahead. Most people will say that a lot can go wrong with a marathon, and for your second, don't be too ambitious. 

    If I were in your position, I d be wondering about challenging 3 hours in 2-3 years time, and look on Dublin 2014 as a step on the way. 

  • SGB1953SGB1953 ✭✭✭

    Just Running - Good luck with discussion with your OH! Mine greets running discussions with same enthusiasm as train discussions. 

    stutyr - I was interested in your comment which I've repeated below. I'd have thought that if you could run 8 minute miles at 60-70% of heart rate reserve then perhaps your target should have been more ambitious than 3:15!  

    "For my last marathon my target was 3:15 and I ran around the 8 min per mile mark.  I used the HR guidance for this, staying within the 60 to 70 percent of HRR that's also mentioned in the description of a GA run.  This seems right as its described as a "moderate effort" run, whereas 8:30 to 9:00 min would be more recovery run pace for me."

  • Thanks to all who have welcomed me to this thread..glad i fou d it.And thanks SJB1953 for that sound advice..I seen my vdot in daniels book and think it predicts 3.07 marathon time..not even going to attempt that but i was thinking about sub 3.20 lately so you hit the nail on the head SJB1953...

    Some of you guys have plenty of running experience so hopefully you can keep me right with advice on pacing during training based on a 7.30-7.35 MP..
  • andrews148andrews148 ✭✭✭

    Did a 16mi today, to make 66mi over the last 7 days. Tomorrow I'll have my last rest day until October 6th image

    18x 70-85 starts Monday!

  • SJB1953 the dublin marathon route is predominantly flat..slight incline between mile 12-14 and a slightlysteeper incline mile 20 but it really aint that steep..The crowds along the route are fantastic..great marathon to run for atmosphere..there was just under 15000 participants last year..
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