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The Middle Ground
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Tr, good to see your getting back to it post Mara.
Mr v, sounds like the new club is just what you needed.
Andrew, yes, what cb and others have said.
Cb, sounds like sdub 20 is there for taking.
Vello, well done to you and oh.
Having to front load my training yet again this week due to weekend commitments so following Sundays hills I had 30 min easy Monday then 4 x 10 min threshold Tuesday ( notably the first rep came out at 6.36mm for a Hr of 164. The rest were back at circa 6.40mm for about 170) then I was sduipposed to do my long run tonight but had to cut it short to 75min.
Work today meant I had little access to food or fluid and from about 15 minutes I was 'wall ' running, really uncomfortable. Plus I have a niggle in my lower left leg that is becoming an injury. Its possible shin splints and/or pf from what I can see. I have one more run to get in this week them I'm on a fairly substantial cut back/taper week. I might however did running completely for the week and do some bike stuff to get rid of it.
Andrew - I agree with the others that joining a club would be a good move once you have your base fitness up a little bit.
Good session with short recoveries Mr V, makes the session that bit more impressive.
DT - good that the fitness is coming on, but don't squeeze runs in if an injury is looming. Bike work might be a smart move.
I ran 17:14 at the Summer Coast Road 5k race tonight. That's a 5k PB, though I have run 17:14 second half split in a 10k before, so reckon I have been in shape to run a fair bit under that time at various times.
Splits were 5:32, 5:31, 5:34 and 38 seconds for the last bit (5.12/mi pace).
It’s essentially a 1 ¾ lap race on a flat quick course. There was a little bit of head wind wind on the longest straight secti
Anyway, pretty happy with the way I ran, considering how I was feeling two weeks ago. I reckon I can kick on to push sub 17 minutes for a 5k pretty soon.
Also had a good battle with a Tyne Bridge Harrier (Mr Vs new club) and came out on top of that little battle. Not sure his name yet as the results aren't out yet.
TR – That’s pretty impressive at this stage post mara. I reckon that sub 17 will go in the next few weeks. Looks like you’ve sold yourself short by 1 second as well!
DT – Nice pace in the threshold sessions. Times seem to be coming down nicely in training? Watch that niggle.
Hill session with the club planned tonight.
Cheers Mr V, and yes I ran 17:13, so an official PB by 3 seconds (if we are allowed to count parkrun’s as 5k PBs) so pretty satisfied with that result. I have seven weeks till the Millennium Bridge 5k in York, so plenty of time to get into shape for an assault on sub 17. Though there will be some ‘fun’ races between now and then.
BTW do you know the chap from Tyne Bridge that I raced?
TR- I count parkrun as 5k, otherwise id never get to do the distance. Looks good for sub 16. well done on the pb.
I am going to leave todays peak session which was 6 x 5 min at 10k pace. I might try and do it tomorrow or saturday as its the last proper session on this 6-7 week block then have a complete rest from running until the 10k a week sunday. First thing to do is get a sports massage booked in.
I might also look at footwear. I got sent a pair of gt 2000 v2 by asics in february to replace some original gt 2000s that were faulty and I never really settled into them. I may try and pick up some original gt2000's, though they are going for a premium by the looks as a lot of people have not taken to the v2 changes.
DT, interesting you mention many have not taken to the 2000-2 - it is softer for sure as they have increased the gel in the heel & forefoot areas - so a slight weight increase I believe, but from a structural/stability perspective it is really not that dissimilar from the original 2000.
What was the problem with the original 2000s? The heel counters are especially prone to wearing away on the inside.
6*5 mins sounds pretty brutal and not a session to approach lightly!
cb - excellent to get so close to 19:xx, you will be there before you know it! Well deserved after good training recently, hope you can keep the momentum up.
alehouse - yep shall be there from Sunday 27th until the Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Marathon Sunday, athletics Monday evening and Tuesday morning (I think), Sevens and some Badminton as well (not sure on what days off the top of my head).
TR, sounds like you dodged a bullet re: PF there. Nasty stuff. What did you do to fix it?
Great 5k, actually not too surprised you have managed to get a good time at this point after Edinburgh, I imagine the race & prior training has well & truly sunk in and it's a great baseline to build off.
velloo - nice going up at Skye and from your OH! Sounds like he was racing quite close to one of my friends who runs for Bellahouston (Stuart MacDougall - he's tall, loud, Glaswegian and very difficult to miss, he spoke at the prize giving afterwards too). He said it was a surprisingly quick race despite the terrain.
Mr V, looks like a good session with some decent pace. What's the club philosophy like? High/low mileage/intensity?
For me I am doing well. A 16.1M long run on Sunday brought me to 75 miles for the week which is my highest ever total. Tuesday did a trail progression run with the club and gave it a bit of gas for the final half mile to stretch the legs out - in fairness it was reasonably downhill but ran 4:53/m for the final 0.4M.
I am actually feeling better and more energetic at 70+mpw than I was at 50. Sure I am feeling tired on occasion but I am coping with the volume and intensity very well.
TR – Not personally but I know the name and I’m sure I’d recognise him.
Duck – Impressive volume there, no doubt your times will continue to tumble. Not sure exactly how I would describe the club philosophy but it seems pretty well balanced, with a mix of intervals, hills, threshold etc. They seem to phase the training nicely as well so unlike some clubs you are not knocking out the same old interval session month after month. I noticed over the last winter period for instance that they were doing lots of longer MP type stuff.
Duck- Thats good going, oddly i felt best in the peak of my p and d schedule through february when it was back to back 55 mile weeks.
The issue i had with the v2 was a hot spot at the front of the feet on the balls of toes everytime i wore them so could never wear them for anything more than 40 minutes, so they never became the marathon shoe they were bought for. Some 300 miles later they still look new and now feel comforeatble, however i have had these leg problems since they became first choice. May just be a coincidence.
The previous ones i sent back....basically i purchased 2 identical pairs of 2000's with the aim of wearing one pair as day in day out for training and the other pair to gradually break in for the marathon. However, everytime i wore them i got knee and shin pain. I sent them back and all asics said was that they had a fault and offered me the v2 as no 2000's left.
Last august i did a gait analysis and was told my over pronation was so mild i could use a neutral shoe. I then got i think some asic gel nimbus 13. I wore them for about 3 weeks and had all sorts of pains so reverted to 2000's and everything was good again.
Now back to thinking, shall i try something different and shall i go neutral again?
That was longer than i intended!
I suspect the hot spot may be due to the balls of your feet sitting exactly where the gel mould ends on the 2000 - did it feel like there was a ridge there or similar?
If you really are that mild I'd look perhaps at Brooks Glycerin/Ghost or Saucony Cortana - all are neutral but are a bit stiffer than your usual neutral so provide some stability. The Glycerin 12 is just about to come out so you will probably be able to get the 11 at a decent price if you wanted. The Cortana is superb but does retail at £140. The Saucony Ride is an option too but I'm not 100% confident of its cushioning for the mileage you are doing.
Looks good Mr V! Everyone loves a good MP session
i can't recall now. It is something i have always had with the gt's but it normally disappears after 40/50 miles but with the v2 it stayed until a couple of weekes ago resulting in some regular blistering.
I'll have a look at those then thanks. Bit nervous about a switch as since I have been running properly I have only ever used the gt series.
Yeah it can be - Saucony are a good like-for-like with Asics, Brooks tend to be shorter but wider.
In training news, 4M this morning and afternoon did 10M w/8M @ 84% MHR which came out at 6:23/m so 7s/mile faster than last week. Intensity was maintainable and could have done 10M without too many issues.
I really need to get myself a max heart rate test done. Did find one on a google search. Seems relatively straightforward.
No running again today as dont want to antagonise leg. I have found a sports injury clinic by work as i constantly have niggles up left side. They do a full gait and biomechanical assessment for £50. Just called to book for one but only appointment they had left in book today was a free 30 minute assessment, which i snapped up! Off to see them after lunch.
17 miles for me this morning - started @ 7:30 and did 13M before parkrun then paced to 21 minutes.
DT - how did the assessment go?
OK. He doesn't think, from examining my legs and feet there is anything wrong and he doesn't think I would overpronate. He thinks my S.I joint on left is in a mess and its all referred pain so going to have a block of sessions over next few weeks to try and sort. He's given me an icing schedule to get on with before first appointment wed in which he will measure all my leg muscles etc.
Nice session. Are you building for a marathon?
Nice PB TR. If you don't count parkrun it's a more impressive leap!
Hope it's sorted soon DT
I'm going to stop reading Duck's posts. A 90 min half marathon as a warm up to parkrun!
Delamere parkrun again today after a couple of rest days (listened to my body and mind - was too tired to train at all on Thurs or Fri). I got a parkrun pb - over 30 secs faster than last week for the same perceived effort. I'm looking forward to taking myself to the well on Thursday!
Nice long run Duck & congrats to CB on the Park Run PB - that's a decent chunk to take off.
Nice to see Velloo in the prizes too.
DT19.. best of luck with that niggle.
TR.. top bombing with the 5k PB, very impressed! Sorry I missed you at York last week - I have entered Millenium Bridge so hope to see you then - it is a flat, fast course though parts of it are a bit twisty with sharp turns. Also take care not to slip on the goose sh*t in the pond section in the park - that's an injury that would take some explaining. I ran a charity 5k there a couple of weeks ago and it is a definite hazard.
As it was I had a stinker at York last week, legs felt like they were full of lead shot and knew after 200m it wasn't going to happen - 20:54 was the salvaged result. Serves me right for doing 3 flat out races in 7 days at my age!
Undeterred I re-visited York Park Park Run yesterday & fared rather better with 20:06. My next Park Run will be my 50th so I will be going all out for a sub 20 when it comes along.
BTW TR I saw your mentor DB out training yesterday evening on my 2nd run of the day - he looked to be moving well (while I was bimbling along at 8:30 pace!).
Evening!
Too much to comment on and too little time!
One of my friends had an idea to start a new parkrun, and yesterday was the first one. He had also had the idea of making me design the course (not easy, too many constraints) and be part of the committee. Anyway Cheadle Hulme welcomed 214 finishers including PRF and Hannah (first lady). There was only one hitch in the whole procedure and it was entirely PRF's fault, deliberately missing the finish to see if the team could cope with adjusting the results accordingly. PRF, of course, will maintain that the finish was obscured, but I'm quite sure that Hannah is on my side.
Lots of positive comments, although there won't be in the winter when people have to slog around 3 laps of muddy fields. Bacon barms were apparently very good. I had sausage.
Running-wise I am just getting back into it, deliberately slowly. Not happy with the parkrun volunteer photo-call: must lose the weight I have put on over the last two months, and more.
And see you Thursday, CB!
DT - glad to hear that the injury doesn't seem to be anything too serious. Sounds like the guy you are seeing is pretty thorough about it all!
CB - well done on the park run pb.
Alehouse - a cross country style park run, sounds interesting! Well done with organising it though. There is talk (I believe) of them setting up a new park run near to me (in Harlow) which would be much more convenient for me than the Waltham Abbey one which is currently my nearest one. Fingers crossed it does get set up. They also started a new one in Braintree yesterday I believe which I will have to try out.
Will be going to my first session at the running club on Thursday night I think, so we will see how that goes.
Yes, AD, very much a cross country style course, although pancake flat. Still quite rutted except for the part that goes round the cricket field. And that floods every winter! The hot drinks and breakfasts will be more welcome then!
And I know why PRF had two bacon barms: obviously carbo loading for today's Rhyl marathon. Podium place and age group winner, I notice, with Hannah first woman.
PRF missing the finish of a parkrun. Surely not! Well done on the organisation Alehouse.
Have fun on Thursday Andrew.
Another rest today. Too busy with school work and external marking. Shattered as well, had to sleep for an hour this afternoon. 200s tomorrow morning.
Alehouse I'm not picking up my number until the day. I've lost the beard since I last puffed my way past you and I'll be wearing a white top with "Razzers Runners" emblazoned on it (I'm fairly sure I'm the only runner from my club!)
Will post what I plan to wear nearer the time, and when I have looked at the weather! I am usually around the 1k mark and then on the second lap I am generally the one who separates the faster runners from those being lapped. Also will be around the start/registration area before the race as we have to have a briefing re health and safety.
Alehouse - Very astute of you to spot the reason for me missing the finish, there's no fun if an inaugural team don't have one or two challenges to deal with
I think it works well as a parkrun course, the bridge was a bit slippy but apart from that it was good
Happy with yesterday at Rhyl, if you want a PB course then this is it as long as the wind stays away. We were with the half marathon runners for the first half, which worked well, but were well strung out in the second half. Hopefully numbers will increase for next year's event which will make it even better. This was the first year and there were 118 finishers in the marathon.
With nobody to chase the stall was set out to aim to extend the string of sub 3s to six in the last 9 months. Therefore pleased with 2:58:24 for 3rd place but I should have kept an eye on the rear view mirror as Hannah was closing rapidly in the closing stages to take the win (4th overall) in 3:00:11.
Really good event but very sunburnt now!
Well done PRF and Hannah. I normally find myself travelling fast through Rhyl...
200s this morning were fastest yet - 10s/mile faster than last week which in turn were the fastest yet by 6s/mile. Steep improvement curve at the moment
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Fantastic running PRF! On the marathon ... not getting lost again!
And you did well resisting the 5000m track the afternoon before ... 3rd and 1st being the reward!
Good to catch TR at the Carnegie 5000m track race(s) ... he was looking in good shape. I went in an earlier heat and came 2nd with 20:41 - a bit rubbish but then again no more than I deserve after a pretty lazy 6 weeks following London. I went as hard as I could, with the aim being not to blow up, but I never felt that horrible 5KP misery which suggests I just don't have the gears yet - felt more like a LT session (splits were all 1:39-1:42, with 1:30 final lap). I was initially chasing down an ambitious fast starter who faded after 1K but then had someone breathing down my neck for 8-9 laps - he lurked behind me and then eventually sprinted past me with 250-300m to go. I should have gone with him but gambled on him fading and saved myself for the last 120m .... he did fade a bit but it was too late. Po10 tells me I'm 15-0 up on this chap on head-to-head to date ... luckily this 5000m won't be eligible for Po10.
June has been an improvement over lazy May ...137 miles running and 123 miles bike commuting, with just 3 days off. The first two weeks of Dublin mara training have included two sub-LT sessions (4M) and two 5K "race/LT sessions", plus 2 x 13.2M hilly long runs. July should see me turn the corner.
I went to Rhyll a couple of years ago, hideous, up there with Ingoldmelds as a hive of scum and villainy. Glad you had a good time though prf, well done on the succession of sub 3s. Takes me back to when I joined the thread (2010/2011) when you were banging your head against the sub 3 brick wall and coming up short, you certainly have the formula nailed down now…. Pass on my congratulations to Hannah btw
Sounds like a good first event Alehouse, congrats on getting it off the ground. I have often thought about the lack of parkrun in Thirsk but there isn’t an obvious destination for one other than the racecourse and I am sure they wouldn’t allow it.
Wardi – thanks for the heads up regarding Goose Poo at the Millennium Bridge course, looking forward to it and catching up with you. I knew it was a twisty course but not so hazardous! DB has the course record I think, so he has promised to give me the lowdown, good that he is running as well, it’s been a mixed 18 months for him.
As for parkrun, I did look out for you. It’s a great spot for a tempo run, I am sure I would use it if I were local. Also nicely done on the parkrun after a poor run at the charity 5k.
Duck – you asked about how I got rid of the PF. Sat at my desk at work rolling my heel with a golf ball for long periods of the day + loads of calf, Achilles and shin stretching.
Dr Dan – not a bad effort if you felt like there was more to come, I certainly feel like track racing is quite a different beast to road racing. Mentally a different game, that’s for sure. Looks like you have made a good start on Dublin training though, something decent to build on.
Busy weekend for me, I ended up taking a late decision to do a track 5000m in Leeds on Saturday, it was good to catch up with Dr Dan and to meet his lad at the event. I went in the 16:40 – 18:00 minute heat and ran 17:20. Was hoping for low(er) 17s, so not a bad effort, though I ran 17:13 on the road on Wednesday and had a few miles in my legs between the two races.
I got caught out tactically in the race. Early in the race a couple of younger lads set off and created a lead, I stayed with the pack, then after about 3 or 4 laps a fella from Wetherby Runners (who I know is about my level) set off in pursuit of them, I should have gone with him but mistakenly thought I would reel them all in later in the race. After a while the main group dropped off the back of me and I ended up isolated in 4th. No matter how hard I tried I couldn’t lift the pace to catch the group. It is mentally tough running alone on the track, had I gone with the lead group I would probably still have come 4th but may have been 10 – 15 seconds faster, the leaders all finished around 16:55 – 17:00 I think.
My lap splits were:
43.4 (200), 1.24.1, 1.22.2, 1.22.8, 1.22.8, 1.22.4, 1.24.0, 1.24.4, 1.24.2, 1.24.0, 1.22.9, 1.23.2, 1.19.7.
A good workout though and Sundays long(ish) run of 13.6 miles felt surprisingly good, not like I had raced twice in the last 5 days, I could have comfortably gone on had I had more time. 50 miles for the week, no racing this week just solid training, tempo run, VO2max intervals, long run and plenty more miles.
Spooky Dr Dan, I had a few cyclist to chase up a big hill as well on Sunday. You can’t move for cyclists round here these days, there must be a big cycling event happening soon, not sure what though…….
As for Saturday I would love there to be more Saturday races Dr Dan. Quite a few cross country leagues race on a Saturday, that’s loads better for those that need to get long runs in as well on a weekend…however my local league is on a Sunday
Some decent racing over the weekend by the looks.
I drove through Rhyl once. I never thought I would find anywhere i disliked more than Kidderminster but Rhyl did it!
Niggle still playing me up. Had rest day yesterday so feeling ok tomorrow. Its my first cut back this week for 7 weeks together with taper week so only decent run is 45 mins tomorrow with 15 at threshold, then I have a 10k sunday, wednesday, saturday assuming i come out of each of them in ok shape. Trying to get a sports massage in over next 48 bhours as well to loosen niggle off.
Heavy 10K schedule there DT!! What doesn't kill you will cure you.
TR - I chased down and overtook a cyclist going up Holme Moss at the Woodhead pass a couple of years back ... don't think it would work next weekend though!