The Middle Ground

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  • Evening guys. We have our fair share of places up here that sound like Rhyl...

    DT, nope no marathon planned, just experimenting with longer runs to see how/if they will help with the latter stages of a HM. 

    Hello Wardi - good to see you posting. What other races did you do? 3 in 7 is hard for anyone (well perhaps not prf).

    prf - consistent as always! Well done to Hannah as well.

    Dan, excellent result.

    TR, I hear your tactics & decision and know the feeling! Being isolated in track races is the worst thing. Often it is best to go against road racing instinct and go harder earlier than you think you should - when I ran my 5000 pb I really blasted the second lap to catch up to the back of the top 2 and it worked well. Best thing is to run more and experiment!

    Didn't run Sunday after getting in from a night out at 4am and having to work at a Half Marathon north of Aberdeen the next morning. After Saturday's long run probably not the worst idea in the world.

    Another long tempo today - 9.4M @ 6:25/m which is comparable to last week and it was pretty hot out as well. Again could have done a reasonable amount more at that intensity (158bpm/85% MHR avg).

  • While we are on places that aren't very nice, i’m not all that keen on Lancashire image

    Wouldn't fancy your chances Dr Dan!

    DT, carefull with the 10k festival you are having over the next two weekends. Sounds fun though!

    Nice workout Duck, looks like you are in good shape atm.I hear you on the track tactics, really kicking myself for not going with the early pace! Live and learn....

    11m with 7m alternating between notional McMP and HMP for me tonight.
    Splits came out: 6:23, 6:03, 6:20, 5:58, 6:19, 6:00, 6:23.

    Happy enough with that for my first tempo outing for some time, it was on tired legs and was pretty hot out. Next time out I will make the workout tougher by doing 4@HMP and 3@MP
    16.46miles for the day, rest tomorrow.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Duck- I see your Hr at 158 for threshold. What is your 10k Hr? Its impossible for me to exercise without my Hr hitting 150 pretty quickly.

    Tr, that looks like a pretty decent session. Might try that myself. 

    Last run before 10k week tonight. Was 15 wu, 15 threshold and 15 CD. I possibly pushed a bit harder than I should so threshold over the 15 was 6.33mm for 170 Hr so bit quicker than threshold but Hr was at top of range. When I started these 7 weeks ago I was getting 6.40 for 169 for 8 min. I'm pretty sure if I stopped at 8 min Hr would have been a bit lower....just checked watch and mile 1 was 6.33 for 166 so if I was still doing 3x8 min there's a definately gain in both pace and reduced Hr over the 7 week block, and it was pretty warm tonight. 

    The two 10ks at either end are bought and paid for. The middle one is enter on night so juries out. I suspect if Sunday goes well (I'd define that as sub 41 at this stage) then I'll probably do Wednesday. Couple of spin sessions rest of week then some rest. 

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    All the best for the 10k's DT19.

    Top tempo sessions Duck & TR.

    Duck.. my 3 races in 6 days were 5k, 5m, 5k. Nothing too heavy there but running them all full bore at my age clearly took it's toll!  The first 5k was the charity run (similar course to the Millenium Bridge 5k as described to TR) went well - 20.18 got me 9th out of 280 ish runners.  5m club race was below average (34.00) and the following weekend's Park Run was shocking (20:54).  Legs felt truly wrecked - I didn't feel like I had over raced but the legs don't lie!.

    Great consistency from PRF & Hannah, keep it up you two!

    7.6m steady tonight, 1m club race coming up on Thursday so hoping to be fresh for that.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    CB: not sure what I will be wearing tomorrow...weather sounds a bit iffy. I will make sure that I will be wearing orange (Alehouse coloured) Asics shoes: can't imagine too many marshals wearing those!

    In other news, managed to run for half an hour last night, the longest for 9 weeks since the start of my hamstring injury. It is a little tender today, inevitably, but seem to be heading in the right direction.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    TR – Pretty good paces there for that session. Looking good.

    DT – Good luck with the 10ks. Seems like the coaching is starting to show results, hopefully that will show in your times.

    Alehouse – Good news on the injury front.

    Wardi – Do you have any idea what the York 10k is like? Debating whether it’s worth the ridiculous entry fee.

    Duck – Another good session there. I really need to get some longer tempos in prior to the GNR.

    2 mile club handicap last night. Net uphill and not one to pay attention to times on. But felt good and finished ahead of those I’d like to so job done. Hopefully serve as a tune up for a couple of upcoming races in the next 2 weeks.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image I'm debating whether to pay up for the Leeds 10K instead of the cheaper Harrogate option ... just because on my doorstep!

     

  • Great numbers DT, really shows this threshold work is paying off for you.
    Just a suggestion, but if the first 10k goes well, then you could play around with the midweek 10k, approach it differently than you would normally. Be that a hard start and cling on or maybe a conservative start with you working through the gears, or maybe tempo it?

    Wardi – I think that racing schedule would start to wear anyone down towards the end, obvious anomalies (prf and Hannah) aside. Enjoy the 1 mile lung burner, is it on the track?

    Good news on the hamstring Alehouse.

    Mr V - With regards to quick but overpriced 10ks I was going to make the same suggestion as Dr Dan. The Leeds 10k, it’s a Jane Tomlinson affair on the Abbey Dash course, probably less congested towards the front as well, so it could be a good option if you want a quick race. £28.50 though!
    Not sure if I’ll do it or not, family logistics to sort out before I decide.


    TdF fever has well and truly gripped folks round here, on my way to work each day I drive on the route from Ripon to Harrogate and some of the decoration and bunting through the villages is fantastic.
    On my lunchtime run yesterday, I headed down to the stray in Harrogate where they are setting up the fan-park, it will be fantastic, there is a real buzz about.
    I assume Dr Dan will be watching on the course, anyone else on here planning on getting out to watch it, if so where are you heading?

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    If it's not one thing its another lately - just when my knee seemed to be on the mend and I was getting the amount of time on my feet running up week by week, I woke on Monday really bad lower back pain (where the spine sits on the pelvis) which developed into full blown back spasms which felt like a knife being jabbed in there! Still very stiff and sore 48 hours on. So running will be taking a back seat again at the moment .....

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Thirsk Runner wrote (see)


    I assume Dr Dan will be watching on the course, anyone else on here planning on getting out to watch it, if so where are you heading?

    Yep ... probably Ilkley on Saturday and Holme Moss area on Sunday. Excited! image I absolutely love TdF anyway but this year is just perfect.image

  • The roads are going to be crazy hope you have your route planned. A pal of mine is over from Liverpool to watch it. He is in Leeds for the Grand Depart and seems to think he will be able to drive over to Harrogate to watch the finish, lol!
    We are going over to Leyburn on Saturday and York on Sunday, using the train both days.
    Layburn could be fun on Saturday as it at the point when the riders start to decent off the Dales, the road into Leyburn is quite a steep decent onto the town with a nasty little right hand turn into the Market square. This is also the point in which the teams will be thinking about getting organised for the finish and I’m thinking it might be a potential crash point, first day nerves etc…so could be an excellent viewing spot for some drama image

    Hope the back doesnt hamper the comeback too much Andrew. Are you seeing someone about it?

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    TR - not yet. It loosens up the more I move, especially if I walk for a few minutes, so I'm hoping it will just heal itself in a few days. If it is no better by the weekend then I will see someone about it next week though.

    As for the TdF, it goes along the road right outside my window at work, so will get a cracking view of it (as my office is on the first floor) image not so keen about the road closures by 8am though ......

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Andrew - I'm jealous!

    TR ... yep, roads will be made (don't fancy your mate's chances). It's trains for us on Saturday and a long walk over the hills on Sunday.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    TR- Yes seemingly so, just hoping it translates into race times. I may just use it as my midweek threshold run, though its full of runners from my own and the other local clubs so will be hard not to be pulled into a race.

    Andrew- Keep it iced as well to reduce the inflamation.

    I am not really sure that I get this tdf in the UK business. Is it some kind of preamble to the main race or do the times posted actually apply to the overall event?

    First session with new fizz lunchtime. He pulled and prodded me and did various things. The upshot was-

    1. SI joint inflammed and the main cause.

    2. Leftside pelvis was higher than right.

    3. My hamstrings short compared to quads, which could be causing pelvis.

    4. The bottom of my left IT was tight.

    5. The perennial muscles on my left leg are very tight.

    All of which is linked to points 1 and 2. I had some ultrasound type treatment on si area, some heavy hamstring stretching and calf massage and some weird pulling about to get my pelvis straight. Back next week with some new stretches and moves in the interim and regular lower back icing.

     

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Dan - I don't know, surely a bad back isn't something to get excited about? Oh, I see what you meanimage .....

    DT - Sounds like a very thorough examination! Do you mind me asking how much (ballpark) it costs to get a thorough diagnosis like that? I only ask because I think I was throwing good money after bad with the last physio I saw (£35 per half hour), but would be prepared to spend the money if I was to see a decent one who was going to accurately diagnose injuries! Oh, and yes, these TdF stages do count for the whole thing - they have had the first 2 or 3 stages outside of France for a number of years now - I suppose to boost the profile of the event across Europe.

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Mr V.. I've had a look at the York 10k course map and there are no hills on that route that I can think of.  Actually my charity 5k ended up costing me £5 per kilometre by the time I had added a contribution  - that makes the Run For All 10k an absolute bargain!

    TR.. we used to do the 1 mile race on the school track but they then decided to charge us £30 which wasn't worth it.  We now do it on a quiet point to point road route.

    I will be in Ilkley on Saturday - one of my friends runs a B&B on the actual route.  First we have to get a taxi to York (wrong direction!) so we can get a train to Leeds.  We didn't want to risk going straight to Leeds as it appears to be sealed off on Saturday morning!  Train then from Leeds to Ilkley.  We will worry about getting back later.  Sunday we intend to cycle to a roadside point on the A59 (York to Harrogate road).

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    DT19 wrote (see)

    I am not really sure that I get this tdf in the UK business. Is it some kind of preamble to the main race or do the times posted actually apply to the overall event?

     

    It's just part of the TdF like any other stage in France itself ... they often do it in other European countries ... they did do it in the UK down south once as well.

  • Lots going on here suddenly.

    Sounds like you're making good progress DT, fingers crossed for the 10ks.

    Sorry Andrew. It really does seem to be one thing after another.

    Decided not to swim tomorrow morning (closest thing to a taper I'm going to get!) - tired and lots to do at work. Fun and gamesimage.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew- It was a very good examination, starting with my toes, then gradually go up my feet/ankles into the back. Yesterday was £50 with appointments thereafter £37 for half hour so not quite as good value.

    I have woken this morning for first time in ages with no shooting pains up my left leg. Not sure if its a result or a coincidence but i'll take it. Just aiming for a spin class tonight and a steady cycle tomorrow then will rest saturday before sundays 10k.

     

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - that sounds pretty reasonable to me. I might need to finds someone similar near to me. Good to hear that you are pain free today! I am still a bit stiff (especially after driving or sitting at my desk for a while) but definitely better than yesterday. Have binned playing cricket on Saturday though as a precaution. Where is Sunday's race? Are you planning to race it or tempo it?

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Decided on a 30 minute easy treadmill run today just to test my leg. Whilst the troubled area got noticably tighter than the right side after about 15 minutes there was none of the nerve pain that had been really playing me up.

    Sunday will be raced. I did it last year so even if i drfit away from goal pace I have a second target to stay on track for. Last year was 41.10 so really want to be sub 41.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Good luck with the race DT ... take care of the niggle though or you'll turn into an old croc like Andrew.

    Today was 8.7M with 4M at LT. Not really recovered from the weekend's 5K and 13.2 hilly run but nevertheless I cycled into work today against my better judgement ... wanted to be rested but the TdF parade starts here at work tonight, so traffic will be a nightmare!! Legs felt stiff and nasty for most of the 3.3M warm up. Target was 7:10/m but only managed 7:26/m at 85% max HR. The 2nd mile was at 7:02/m when I tried to pick things up ... but I couldn't sustain it. Sweated an ocean and felt faint afterwards on the cool down. Glad it's done. Just need to work out how the hell I'm going to cycle home!!image

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Dan - Its hard work out there today isn't it - very warm!

    DT - Good luck with the race and good to hear some improvement in the niggle.

    Wardi - Thanks, I might take the plunge and do it then. Should certainly be a pleasant route through the city if nothing else.

    TR - Yeah I thought about Leeds but I'm out the night before so its a no go.

    Good session with the club tonight despite it being very warm and windy. Session was 25 mins threshold surge (the one where you go single file and surge to the front once you reach the back of the line) We ended up only doing 22 and half mins but in a decent pace of 6.02. Second mile was slow in 6.23 so all the others comfortably under 6m/m. Really enjoying the training with the new club, feel like I've got a bit of a new lease of life running wise.

  • Sale Sizzler 5k

    Excuses first - I'd had a dodgy gut all day and must have gone to the toilet a few thousand times today! I'm also physically and mentally shattered due to things at work, so much so that colleagues have repeatedly asked me if I'm ok and seem concerned that I'll make it home awake!

    I managed to stick on target pace for the first mile and a bit, but after that the effort was just too much and my stomach was starting to cramp, so just after passing Alehouse I slowed to a jog and trotted in, stopping to introduce myself to Alehouse on the next lap!

    I'm upset now, but not because of the race, that's just symptomatic of everything else, but because I've allowed myself to get this run down. And yet I know it'll happen again! It was a crap run, they happen and I haven't had one for a while so was due one. There's another sizzler in two weeks and if I feel good I'll go for sub 20 then.

    Alehouse sorry I didn't stick around, I really was in a bad place after the race. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    CB - sorry to hear that.

    I managed 3 easy km this evening without any reaction from the back, which I take as a promising step. Just have to wait and see how I pull up in the morning to decide if I'm ready for the scrap heap or not image

     

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    CB: the main problem is that it is close to the end of term and I don't think most people realise, not least ourselves, how much teaching takes it out of you. I know that BR and Hilly, for two, would support me in that. Everywhere I go I see washed out teachers: my daughter is on her last legs as she comes towards her first year of teaching; there are several teachers at the club who are not running well; I ran before tonight's race with one of my athletes who is a head...she said she was just too exhausted and went home. Take it easy over the next two weeks...I would sack the sessions and just do some easy running. By the time the next Sizzler comes along you will have finished term and be more rested.  See you in two weeks!

    (Apologies to you others who have busy stressful jobs but I can only talk about what I know!)

    Ran about 5k tonight before the race. Legs were fine. The rest of me felt exhausted!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    CB.. sorry to hear that.  I had a bad 5k a couple of weeks ago due to over-racing as previously described but the next outing was much better.  Also, don't underestimate how below par health has on running - any stress or bug related stuff can have a detrimental effect.  Better luck next time - the best thing about 5k's is that you can do another one pretty soon after a bad one!

    Alehouse.. good to see you racing again.

    DT19, AndrewD.. best of luck sorting out your niggles.

    Dr.Dan.. good decision on biking to work, hope you made it home.

    Good session Mr V!

    Club mile race went well, muggy but calm.  5:42 was the same as last year so be it consolidation or stagnation I'm happy to take it! 

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Wardi: no, I didn't race...just did 5k earlier before donning a yellow vest to marshal! Suspect it will be a long time before I am back to racing! And oh for a mile starting with a 5! Or a 6 at present!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    No trip to the scrapyard for me just yet .... back feels quite good today after last night's run. Rest night tonight as am off to the pub but will get back on the training tomorrow. Onwards and upwards (hopefully).

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sounds positive Andrew.

    CB-Yes we all have them and as Alehouse says, professional stress and fatigue is bound to play its part.

    Following yesterdays run, did a spin class on the way home with some heavy gears and no reaction from leg. Managed to drag myslef out of bed early enough ton cycle in today which I took fairly easy. Will rest tomorrow then in advance of sunday.

    I have made a catastrophic error for tonight. I accepted some time ago an invitation to a summer ball for a business i work with. All well and good on paper, black tie, in Coventry cathedral, free bar, work paying for my hotel etc etc. However I have nil prospect of watching either footy match tonight and they are the two most interesting quarters!

     

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