Sub 10:00...

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  • Sometimes it's best to can a session and start again later GB.

    5x2min intervals today before brekkie. The run pace is slowly coming back on line, but ultimately it's down to the fuelling the night before. Red wine, schnapps and mint moquitos don't seem to contain what I really needed.

    1 hour for a 50mi TT Eng? image I've never done a 25mi TT but aim to before the year is out. That said, I think this year isn't going to produce a decent TT result - I doubt I'll scrape a 25 at the club champs which is a pisser as last year I was knocking on a sub 24 for 10mi.

  • Ha! Saw 50, mind obviously doesn't entertain anything longer than a 25image
  • DaylightRDaylightR ✭✭✭

    Possibly a stupid question - but given this seems to be where all the numbers geeks hang out I suspect this is the best place to ask it image:

    Is there a set formula I should use to be able to take my FTP from say an 8 or 20 min trainerroad test and then use a percentage of it for a HIM or IM target wattage?

    e.g. If I have a 300Watt FTP, could I do a HIM at 85% and an IM at 80%? what should those percentages be or does it depend on other factors (which I suspect)?

  • DaylightR wrote (see)

    Possibly a stupid question - but given this seems to be where all the numbers geeks hang out I suspect this is the best place to ask it image:

    Is there a set formula I should use to be able to take my FTP from say an 8 or 20 min trainerroad test and then use a percentage of it for a HIM or IM target wattage?

    e.g. If I have a 300Watt FTP, could I do a HIM at 85% and an IM at 80%? what should those percentages be or does it depend on other factors (which I suspect)?

    I wouldn't say there is a set formula.

    If you follow Allen & Coggan's testing protocol for a 20min or 1hr test, they then suggest 0.83 - 0.87 IF for HIM. This means your NP should be 249 - 261 W. Note that is Normalised Power, not Average Power.

    I'm away from home so can't look in the book to see what they suggest for IM.

    Of course all this is empirical from what they've observed and assumes that one can run off the bike well.

    I think TrainerRoad follows a similar testing strategy to Coggan (or Allen?) but there is a lot of contention on whether the 5min interval is all out or capped - I can never remember what Coggan said on it.

     

  • IronCat5 wrote (see)

    I doubt I'll scrape a 25 at the club champs which is a pisser as last year I was knocking on a sub 24 for 10mi.

    Saw Alex Dowsett break the national 10 record the other day....10 miles in 17.05 at an average speed of 34.6mph!!!!

  • DaylightR; building on what Cat said, there's a very wide range of percentages specified across the wealth of information written on the topic. The general consensus is that an IF of 0.7 to 0.9 is sensible. Less than 70% FTP and you're likely leaving something on the table, more than 90% and I'd love to see you run!



    You'll see above, my NP at the weekend out me at the low end (71% FTP) and was able to run very close to my open HM time. Certainly I could have ridden harder, but only if you're very comfortable riding at that level can you be confident that the trade off with your run split is satisfactory. Ultimately racing is an iterative process where you dial in the two - edge up the bike effort until the time lost on the run just isn't worth it.



    Unless you're at the very front of the field (in which case I doubt you'd be asking) you certainly need to race your own race - riding at a higher power just to stay with a group is likely to be counter productive.
  • Felt totally flat last week, up to and including yesterday. Still don't feel fantastic but knocked out a few hard reps in the pool at lunch. 

    Certainly aware that sub-10, whilst a possibility, is looking much less likely at Outlaw. I don't have the endurance at this point to sustain the effort - 130km yesterday and I was completely trashed.

    Based on what I can see from Outlaw Half, a ride of 207W with VI = 1 should yield a 5:03:57 split - so I can seek some solace from that, but I certainly need some longer rides if I'm to even consider running off it. That said, I don't think that I'd ride that hard.

  • Total training volume bewteen Outlaw Half and Avenger Half was just 28hrs for me. Understand that fatigue plays a big role but can't help but be disappointed that I wasn't cranking out more work.

    Long bike this weekend as a last ditch attempt to get some full distance fitness...

     

    How's everyone else going?

  • Form is coming back gradually.

    4 track sessions have improved my leg speed for running; I'm not chasing down my PBs, but I'm back under 20mins again for 5km.

    Last night's 10mi TT was a deluge of rain so not the best conditions, but fairly happy with the performance considering I've only been doing slowish rides up to 2hrs and no bike speedwork. Best part was the 20min power best was set in the last 20mins, rather than the first!

    Next A-race isn't until October.

  • Hi all, thanks for the feedback on swimming. Feels like I'm kind of back on track in the pool, knocking out 1:30 - 1:33 per 100m for an hour. I definitely call into the camp of 'faster in a wetsuit' (though a good chunk of that extra pace probably comes from annoying proper swimmers by sitting right on their toes).



    TE - good result at outlaw half. Sounds like a sub - 10 is possible on a good day I'd say. Our numbers in terms of pace and FTP seem pretty similar and that's how I'm feeling right now. On a good day (inc weather being friendly of course) I might get a sub 10 if the knee holds up.



    Doing long rides at race pace now and starting to feel confident at going low fives. Need to do a longer ride or two to sort nutrition out but I think I'm pretty robust in this regard. Real question mark is over the run with a longest run of 13 miles... And no big block of winter running to fall back on either.



    Question re bike, do any of you guys use an aerojacket disc cover? I've got one on order but not likely to get it until the week before race day, so might only get on decent ride with it. Any issues or thoughts?



    Good luck!
  • I think sub 10 is possible but it would have to be an absolutely perfect month between now and then combined with a real edge-of-the-bell-curve day. I know I've got the speed there, but the question is whether I have enough endurance in me to sustain the right percentage.

    In a vain attempt to convince myself, I rode 150 miles yesterday. Not as tiring as I thought, but certainly nowhere near IM pace!! Notwithstanding was able to hit IM target numbers late in the ride which is a positive. 

    And today I was able to crank out 610m swim TT at the end of my lunch swim in 8:48. Pleased with that!! image

    At some point I should do some running. I'm going to notice the lack of training come mile 14 of the marathon...

  • Just who had the clever idea about riding 150 miles??

    Return of the saddle sore. Feck. image

  • 150 miles ? Nutter.
  • After IMFrance on Sunday I definitely think sub 10 is feasible, one for next year now.

    10:25 for me including a bashful swim and a crash and a puncture on the bike. Happy with a 3:23 marathon though after no proper marathon training this year.

    Also managed a 16:54 parkrun pb the week before... looking forward to a bit more running through the summer ahead of a september Marathon. Time to start thinking about next year's aims now I suppose, and whether an Ironman (and sub 10) is one of them

  • Good god. That's awesome racing. France isn't the fastest course around. Well raced.
  • fat buddhafat buddha ✭✭✭

    GB - choose the right course and a sub-10 is yours for the taking.  IMAustria would be a good one as it's probably the fastest IM course out there (bar Roth but that's not IM) despite a few lumps but the smooth road surfaces make up for them.

  • I'm starting to think IMUK next year image A good 12 months cycling needed though as still my weakest discipline (other than swimming but that doesnt really count!)

  • With the changes to the IMUK bike course this year, in an effort to get me people on the course and in turn more money, I think the likelihood of a sub 10 has diminished as there are a lot more tight turns and bad road condition to deal with

  • I think GB was more interested in position relative to the rest of the field....image

  • GB - If you nick one of the last hundred spaces that went on sale this morning, you would comfortably smash 10 hours in Austria next year.

    With unstructured training, two flats on the bike and cramping guts on run, I managed 11:46 this year.

    I'm bigger and lazier than you with a stand alone marathon PB of 3:54.

    The perennial "next time I'll train harder and be better" statement is already in play for me and scribbles are already appearing on my notepad to see how realistic it is for me to get closer to 10 hours.

  • TheEngineer wrote (see)

    I think GB was more interested in position relative to the rest of the field....image

    image image

  • I might race IM Mallorca back end of next year. Maybe even Wales.

    I wouldn't be expecting a KQ - I'm not good enough yet - but might fancy a later season IM to see how I fare

  • Finally starting to shake this achilles injury.. I got out for an hour steady run and a 4 hour bike over the weekend with only a minor flare up. According to the physio as long as its gone the next day its fine so I'll work with that. Only 7 weeks to go now so I can't afford much more rest anyway.

    Main focus has been swimming and rollers and now going to be 3-5 hour bike rides and keeping my fingers crossed that my heel sorts itself out. Not sure what to expect from the race apart from enjoying the first 4 hours and cursing the rest.

    Nicco - I had a aero jacket on my PX 101 wheel. Great job and no need to get used to it really as long as its installed correctly. I since sold the wheels to help fund a power meter though image

  • Some great racing here.

    I'm doing Frankfurt and am also aiming for IM Mallorca next year too.  I won't be going for a KQ until '16 or perhaps '17 when I move into the next AG.

  • BKins wrote (see)

    Finally starting to shake this achilles injury.. I got out for an hour steady run and a 4 hour bike over the weekend with only a minor flare up. According to the physio as long as its gone the next day its fine so I'll work with that. Only 7 weeks to go now so I can't afford much more rest anyway.

    Main focus has been swimming and rollers and now going to be 3-5 hour bike rides and keeping my fingers crossed that my heel sorts itself out. Not sure what to expect from the race apart from enjoying the first 4 hours and cursing the rest.

    If you can ride for me (Still got this saddle sore image ) I'll do some running for you?!

  • Sounds like a plan! Its the beauty of triathlon.. I've spent 2 months injured and feel like i'm still in a better place now than before the injury. Swimming is sorted for give or take an hour. Bike is not where it needs to be but nearly there! Potentially 5:30. Leaves me about 3:15 for the run.. No idea what to expect there really. I've a long brick this weekend which should give a good indication.

  • I got my hands on an adamo road saddle to try it out for a while. I've not tried it yet.. any good?

  • I got an Adamo saddle a couple of years ago and get on really well with them.  Got a 'breakaway' first and then bought a 'time trial' for the posh bike.  Love em to bits.

  • Sounds good. Should I be worried about breaking it in? I have a 3.5 hour bike this weekend that I might try it for.

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