The Middle Ground

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  • Saturday was weird Mr V, I ran with SM, setting off just after 8am and jogged 2m to warm up and it was grey and overcast and we were sweating buckets, it was horrid, I was thinking about just running steady at this point. We made a start and not long into the tempo the heavens opened up and rained for most of the 10 miles, which was a relief.
    Glad I stuck it out in the end, it was below McMP, but on a rolling course with some off-road, I’ll take that as a good training effort.
    7:20s is a decent clip for a long run, you are throwing up some good training numbers at the moment.

    Lots of good mileage Dr Dan, you should be building a pretty decent aerobic engine with the run/bike combo.

    Don’t mind a gamble but find horse racing incredibly boring.

  • Some great training going on here. Only slow running here. I was planning at running a hard tempo at Delamere Parkrun but the weather was more suited to swimming, so I offered to pace a friend to 25 mins. We failed, but not due to my pacing!

    10 easy this morning in the sunshine, hopefully trying a 10k pace session tomorrow.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    This hot weather looks set to stick around for the week making anything beyond easy a sweat fest.

    Im swapping out tonights 3 x 15 at threshold for 90min slow and easy.

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    DT – Yeah I know what you mean. I’m not going to worry too much about faster sessions at the minute. I’ll settle for easy runs and take anything else as a bonus. Yeah it was a series of wins rather than one.

    TR – Yeah I reckon I’m in definite PB shape right now. Hopefully I can cash in later in the year when things cool down a bit. 

    Dan – Nice training. You seem to be settling back into the miles well.

    I’ve got a week off work after today so hopefully time for plenty of training. Might be slow in the sun but I’ll get banked what I can.

  • Enjoy the week off Mr V.

    It's hot out there. I set off at 1pm aiming for 10 miles with 10x800m at 10k pace. I managed the first 2 on target before a gradual slowing and by the last 2 efforts my legs were shot. Which tells me a few things; My 10k time is way off the time predicted by my 5k pb; I need to do more longer tempo efforts; I need to do longer runs and I shouldn't run in the scorching midday heat!

    Enjoy the sunshine everyoneimage.

  • Quiet week round here.

    Good week-off weather Mr V, at least for sunbathing, not so great for training!

    CB: heat is a pace killer, don’t read too much into the paces you hit, just keep churning them out.

    13.5miles on Monday, day off Tuesday and 12.5miles yesterday including club interval session: 6 x 3 mins with alternating 1 min and 2 min recoveries.
    Reps came out as follows: 5:23/mi (1), 5:20/mi (2), 5:20/mi (1), 5:11/mi (2), 5:17/mi (1) & 5:14/mi, faster reps all came after the 1 minute recoveries bizarrely.
    Take the paces with a pinch of salt as we were running round quite a tight oval on the cricket field, but still, it represents a decent amount of hurting on tired legs.

    Feeling quite tired in general now, heading ooop north on Friday after work for 9 days, I will run but I have no plan as I need a down week to let recent harder training sink in. Looking forward to seeing some Commonwealth Games action, hope it’s better than the opening ceremony……

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    TR- Sounds like some decent miles and efforts despite the heat.

    Mr v, good choice of a week off.

    I have 3 x 15 at threshold tonight. Last week it was a similar heat without being sunny and with hindsight it really wiped me out. Therefore i think I am going to have to take tonight to the treadmill. It is a means to an end as if i attempt it outdoors i will probably fail to hold the paces and tire myself too much.

    90 mins easy went well enough tuesday, though without a drink with me it got a bit hot towards the end. Pleaseant cycle to work yesterday. Cycled home in my highest ever ave pace in the 4 years ive been commuting. Came out at 19.4mph. If it wasnt for a few junctions etc I might have hit 20.

    I found the ceremony quite educational!

  • Afternoon all - bit of an absence recently, bit of a difficult period at work. Am on holiday now however image

    DT - 3*15 mins is really brutual so I am not surprised you were finding it tough. I would use that as a peaking workout and probably only once!

    TR - these 800m guys eh, get them on a good hard long run and see them wilt!

    Ratzer - what's new?

    Dan - bike straight into run sounds good, do you think biking warms you up adequately? Can it help in some instances you think (i.e. decent bike before run)?

    For me last week was a pb of 79.2M with 16 on Sunday. 10M @ 6:28/m on Thursday was the other highlight.

    So far this week I managed to drag myself out of bed @ 5:40am Tuesday morning for an 11M progression run:

    1) 1m - 8:59(8:59/m) 121/130bpm 107cal
    2) 1m - 8:34(8:34/m) 125/128bpm 102cal
    3) 1m - 7:09(7:09/m) 137/144bpm 98cal
    4) 1m - 6:29(6:29/m) 147/150bpm 95cal
    5) 1m - 6:03(6:03/m) 156/159bpm 92cal
    6) 1m - 5:53(5:53/m) 161/164bpm 92cal
    7) 1m - 5:56(5:56/m) 165/169bpm 96cal
    8) 1m - 5:51(5:51/m) 168/170bpm 96cal
    9) 1m - 5:53(5:53/m) 167/170bpm 96cal
    10) 1m - 5:40(5:40/m) 169/170bpm 92cal
    11) 1m - 7:16(7:16/m) 143/168bpm 66cal
    12) 0.12m - 1:00(8:10/m) 143/149bpm 8cal

    So middle 7M @ 5:58/m avg which is faster than I ran at my last 10k (Bob, re: GC comment 10k pb pace is 5:43/m)! Effort strong but manageable towards the end.

    Then 16M today out at parent's house - set off early to try and beat the heat but thermometer when I got home was over 30c. 16M @ 8:18/m - cardiac drift was something else. parkrun tomorrow then off to the Games image

    I have tickets for Sevens Sunday evening, Badminton Monday afternoon, Athletics Monday evening & both Tuesday sessions. if anyone else is around!

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Evening!

    Seem to be going well Duck! Any race plans?

    My Games' tickets are as follows:
    Tues, athletics in the evening
    Weds, badminton at 4.30
    Thurs, hockey at 2 and 7
    Fri, squash 11.30 and athletics in the evening
    Sat, hockey in the evening (and possibly somewhere like Falkirk parkrun in the morning)
    Sun...hope to catch some of the road cycling but not a definite

    I'm staying in Stirling: anyone know how easy it is to get to Hampden for the athletics? The other venues seem a bit easier to access.

    Just back from warm weather drinking and eating in Lisbon. Highly recommended. Almost as hot here though. Really struggling with running at the moment with no routine and various niggles...and lots of weight. Hopefully normality will resume after the games.

     

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • I have a 1500m August 7th, pb is 4:31 but really not sure what to expect from it. Then Haddington HM 2 days later which is East District champs.

    17:18 today which is a course pb. Pretty fast start but crept up from 8th(ish) in the early stages to 3rd by end of the first mile. Shadowed 2nd until about 4k coming up the second ramp then picked it up for the final mile.

    3:27/3:34/3:30/3:31/3:13 (8:47/8:31 splits). Winner ran 16:34 and I was tempted to go with him... not sure what would have happened though! Happy with that. 

  • Cant help on the travel arrangements Alehouse. I understand that trains from central Glasgow to Hamden are free with commonwealth tickets. We are staying out west, at a place called Wemyss Bay, and we are getting the tain into Glasgow on Thursday morning, watching the road time trails and then getting the train over to the stadium for the evening Athletics session. 
    We are in Berwick at the moment, quite a nice place actually. Heading up to Scotland on Monday.

    Sounds like some good running Duck, especially the progressive. 

    I did 5 miles exploring Berwick at tea time, planning a tempo run on the promenade tomorrow.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Afternoon all!

    Hope you enjoyed/are enjoying the various trips to the games?

    Duck- sounds like things are still rolling for you then looking at last two posts.

    I had a pretty solid session on saturday of 10 min LT, 6 x 4 min at 10kp, 10 min LT. On the back of 60 miles cycling, a meaty LT run and a few other runs in the few days prior I was ready for a rest day yesterday. I seem to be back at that stage I got to in February though where im recovering pretty quickly from things pretty quickly.

    This weeks tempo is a straight 25 minutes which could get painful, however it has to be easier than 3 x 15.

    Question for Duck- I am in the process of sorting my bi-annual six nations trip to edinburgh. Flights to there are about £200, however flights to Glasgow are about £80 and the times of them sit nicely. Do you know how connectable Glasgow airport is to city centre? Once there I can easily get a train to Edinburgh as I did that last year.

  • Hello again - I've been away with work for a month so I've had four weeks where I didn't run over 20 miles… but I did go to Glasgow to watch the marathon which was great fun despite the stupid diversions, security and general chaos Glw 2014 is causing. There's armed police outside my work (the dive team is staying in a hotel next to my office) we have to cross the road as we are not allowed to walk on the pavement or road and are questioned constantly. The Glasgow office is even worse (next to a 2014 venue) everyone is getting searched every time we try to go to work. Don't get me started on the confiscation of water and packed lunches! 

    DT19 Glasgow airport isn't far from the city centre, there's a bus that will take you to Buchanan bus station which is right next to Queen Street train station. 

    Anyway I'm back running, I've got a plan and I've got a lot of cooked breakfasts to burn off!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Veloo - security sounds a bit much ... they must have some serious concerns. Good luck with the plan!

    Another good session DT!

    Nice 5K Duck and good luck with the 1500m. Watching the games yesterday ... I'm amazed at the times the decalthletes get at 1500m.

    Not too much to report here. 46 miles last week with another 52 on the bike. I did 18.3 miles on Sunday - 13.1 miles 68% max HR and then 4 miles at MP which came out at 7:51/m for 78% maxHR. Session (10 wi 5 @ LT) either today or Friday, depending on my legs once I get started. Hoping to time my run on Thursday so I can keep BR company when he does the 32nd and final Yorkshire parkrun course - he's doing all 32 in 4 days (100 miles) to commemorate the anniversary of WW1.

     

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Dan – Good session there. Its Dublin you are doing isn’t it?

    Decent weeks training for me whilst I was off work. Not sure how many miles but must have been a reasonable amount. On the hot side but I did manage one 10k run at MP which nearly finished me off! Back in Newcastle yesterday and did a decent session with the club. 5x1 min, 4x2 min and 3x3 min with half recoveries. Session was on grass which seemed to make it a lot tougher. Legs felt drained by the end but a good workout.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Vello- thanks for that. There may be 4 of us so looking at it it may well work out better to just get a cab which i understand will be about £80. By the time 4 people have paid for the bus and a train to Edinburgh id guess we will have spent £60.

    All sounds a bit excessive with the security but then i guess they dont want these games remembered for the wrong thing.

    Sounds like you are ticking over weel Dr Dan. When is the first marathon (assuming you still plan 2). Sounds like a decent challend for BR, id assume he isnt just plodding around them either?

    Mr V- Looks like you had the best of the wsummer in your week off. One of the 10ks i recently did, the last 500m was across a field and it absolutely finished me.

    Nice easy 13.1m last night then cycled to work today. Debating doing a parkrun saturday.

  • Dr Dan - there's no particular security threat it's the head of the new unified police force flexing his muscles! Sounds like a good week of running and cycling you've had.

    Mr V my club trains on grass in the summer too, I'm not a fan I think it makes me slower. (or that might be the lack of running…)

    DT19 private hire to Edinburgh is a good idea, as long as it's not rush hour!

     

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Vello, yes think its the solution provided there are 4 of us. Other option is to go into Glasgow and have a look around. I've been to Edinburgh possibly 8 times but never seen Glasgow. 

    Had a stab at parkrun today. Came in at 19.47 so a bit slower than I hoped but its been a very heavy training week with five consecutive days from Monday so wasn't very fresh. It will do for now!!

    Rest day tomorrow which is well needed. 

  • Well done on the parkrun DT! Glasgow has a totally different feel from Edinburgh it's both gritty and glitzy. 

    taking inspiration from Lynsey Sharpe I've written on my hand 'Get out..' sadly this is where I'm stalling.. 2 hour run at some point today. Did first hill session for months yesterday 10x1min in the rain, it was actually quite enjoyable.

  • Evening all - Glasgow wasn't half bad eh? Had a blast over the 4 days I was there, saw the man himself Rudisha, CS got a selfie with Libby Clegg and it was amazing to see Laura Muir & Eilish McColgan competing as well (I remember these two duking it out at university matches not so long ago!). 

    DT, LT sessions looking awfully not-fun (i.e. beneficial)!

    Not been to Glasgow airport I'm afraid, wrong side of the country for me. You're right on the M8 so I imagine the public transport service to and from is good. 

    Dan I saw you & BR running on fb, how are the Brillys doing these days? They haven't been around in a while.

    Finished off last week just a touch under 80M, did what running I could while staying in Livingstone & hit 70M for this week (that included taking Tuesday off as we didn't get back in until 2am Tuesday morning from Hampden and were back out again 7am that morning).

    Did 10k @ 5:59/m on Thursday which was harder than it probably should have been (around HMP effort), then today's long run was a pretty progressive 16M, had a good 5-6M section where I sat around 6:30/m with HR around 155bpm (83% MHR) & a few miles in the low 6:1x range without feeling strained towards the end.

  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Good training going on by the looks as usual! Been a quieter period in general here, ran a local 10k about 3 or 4 weeks ago, but on very heavy legs having built up the mileage and structure a bit more recently. Managed a sub 42 minutes which is what I expected in the heat on the day and with a base of roughly 25 miles or so a week for most of the preceding month (plus no tempo or 10k specific work beforehand). Missed a few 5ks recently in a not so local anymore summer series and will learn from that in trying to book half day off work for the last one later this month! 

    Mileage over the last since the week preceding that 10k has been better and have had a solid weekend with 34 undulating and hilly miles covered over the last 3 days comprising 6 steady miles Friday eve, 2.5 mile warm up, Parkrun, 2.5 mile warm down, 10 steady that afternoon and 6 and 4 steady today. Certainly don't think I'd have managed that much in a short period say 12 months ago, so although the top end speed shows no improvement, the stamina seems to still be building over the weeks and months. Parkrun was ok having ran most as mini tempos recently up until last weekend and improved on last weeks time enough to think a course PB could be on next time round!

    Been lurking mostly whilst not posting, lots of solid training by the looks recently DT and decent Parkrun on heavy legs. I'd not be too disappointed with that in mind plus no specific 5k speed work unless I'm wrong on that? Its bound to produce some longer term gains though over longer distances I'd have thought, plus isn't that the primary aim? 

    Some great mileage and quality mixed in there Duck. Amazing really that you are now disappointed in what would have been a 37:XX training run!

    Sounds like a few of you enjoyed the Commonwealth Games! Didn't get to watch much but did see the women's 5000 metres, great to see Jo Pavey still going strong. It was ironic that the picture of the finish showed the younger generation in Steff Twell being lapped mind, and although hardly her fault, does highlight the lack of world class track and distance athletes across the younger generations in the UK. Perhaps you can't quite apply the same logic to Steve Way regarding younger generations over the marathon.....it's all been said already but what a huge inspiration he is and so humble with it! I don't blame the Telegraph(?) reporter asking if Rio was in his sights either! Will be great to see how he does in the world 100k championships later this year!  

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Duck - good to see the Brillys for 30 min on their dash around Yorkshire... first time I've seen the for ages in real life.

    WJH - looks like things are progressing and good luck with the parkrun PB attempt. Any big targets coming up.

    15.3M for me yesterday at 7:53/m, with the last 10.2M at 7:43/m ... felt good although started to tighten up in the last 2 miles.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Afternoon all.

    Back from a week away which included a couple of days in Glasgow at the Commonwealths. Had a great time, really well organised and a great atmosphere at both events we went to (and around the city generally)! In answer to whoever asked about transport into Glasgow from the airport (think it was DT?), we stayed in Troon, which is about 5 miles and two stops on the Ayr-Glasgow Central trainline from Prestwick Airport, and used the train to get in and out of Glasgow both days. Only took 40 mins from where we were and was very reliable and quite cheap too (compared to the prices we are used to paying to get into London and back!) - so I would recommend the train from the airport rather than a taxi tbh.

    As for running, as I am basically back to square one I have decided to absent myself from this thread until such time as I am posting race times that allow me to feel a bit more like I 'belong' on this thread amongst you speedsters! Hopefully that will only be 6 months or so, but in the meantime I will wish you all well. I will probably start up my own thread to keep me motivated, so if anyone fancies popping in to say hello or dish out any advice you would be more than welcome image

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Duck – Impressive training there, both miles and numbers. How are you feeling on big mileage? Tired?

    DT – Good parkrun effort there. I tried to go for a PB on Saturday but it was mighty humid and I struggled to get close to 10k pace let alone 5 k pace.

    Dan – That’s a nice pace improvement from last time you did the session isn’t it?

    About 8 or 9 miles for me on Sat including a parkrun at tempo pace. Was hoping for a PB attempt but it wasn’t happening. 16 miles yesterday which felt fine until about 14 when I started really treading water. Perhaps the tempo parkrun had taken a bit out of the legs.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    MrV - I guess you're always going to feel a tempo the day before a 16 miler.

    No pace improvement on the final 10.2M of my (3 x 5.1M) 15.3 mile run from the same run 3 weeks ago but a lower HR this time ... and also I did the first 5.1M circuit 10 minutes faster, so I was almost at MP during the warm-up lap.

    12 miles planned for today ... the first proper mid-week MLR of the campaign.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    wjh- good to hear from you. Thought you might have been struggling still with the pf injury you last reported.

    Yes....the focus now is on 10k and hm so 5k not really on the agenda and certainly no speedy intervals covered ibn a long while.

    Andrew- I'll lurk on your thread to see how you are doing.

    Sounds like everyone else is ticking along well. Having not seen Simon on here ina  while i wondered if he was injured. Had a quick look on RB and noticed he has recently done a few 17.xx parkruns  so he seems to be bashing along.

    12 miles for me last night and then bike commute to work today. I am only running 4 times a week at present, swapping out an easy run for an extra bike commute as i am quite enjoying the cycling at present. Plus in 4-6 weeks time when young DT starts school the logistics will make bike commuting in term time pretty close to impossible.

  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Cheers DT - the pf injury was very much self inflicted. I was running on a pair of GT2000s which were literally ripped to shreds. Poor excuse probably but having moved, started a new job at the time and manyother considerations, it just seemed to slip the net of things to do! imageA few track sessions and a 10k race in May kind of aggrivated it but two new pair of GT2000s has made sure it has gone away.

    Ditto with what DT says Andrew...if anything i'd just enjoy running for the moment rather than setting any longer term targets when you are back in the swing of things. And use parkrun as a tool rather than a means to an end with a target time in mind!? I know how you feel having had knee injuries about 4 years back for about 6 months and it was a very fustrating time - although in saying that my running was less frequent and unstructured. What's to say you can't build the mileage and improve on your times though?

    I've been loving the warmer weather and storm chasing Mr V but running wise, the cooler weather can't come soon enough for the running! Although it has got easier - or maybe just a little cooler in these parts over the last week!

    Another steady undulating/hilly 5 last night whereby the legs felt heavy but I do feel a few pounds lighter??? I'm finding it tricky to judge my pace now I'm doing the vast majority of my running around a hillier area (Winchester) so just do the steady runs by feel. It's not so much the uphills I struggle with, more the downhills and decents whereby no pace or momentum from gravity is generated whatsoever!

    Looks like marathon training is progressing nicely Dr Dan - what is your target time? Got a 10k planned in Cardiff next month (they have since changed the route so it's more undulating in parts to previous years!) and then the Cardiff half in October. Realistically, i'd like a PB in that and anything else is a bonus - i'd like to get close to a PB in the last Lakeside 5k later this month. Some recent track work at club and km reps on my own should at the least see a possible Parkrun PB on my local course over the course of the next month or so but we shall see! image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    WJH - nice targets ...  I've forgotten what a PB is!

    My marathon target is sub-3:30 ... but I'll run it according to heart rate, so if the HR : Pace ratio is severely off kilter on the day (which it has been in all my marathons to date), I'll re-adjust pace and settle for a slower target time. I've discovered the hard way that you can't cheat human physiology.

    12 mi today at 9/m and 70% maxHR.

  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Apart from Manchester earlier this year with the marathon PB, likewise! I may have sounded overly optimistic with he PB hunting last post! image So many variables can go right or wrong with a marathon whether its your own body, preparation, weather conditions, etc! Hopefully you will have one of those days where everything comes together!

  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    Hello all! Been a while since i've been on here but good to see the same names still around. I've had a couple of pb's since last posting, some dodgy triathlon performances, got fat and pretty unfit (for me) so have decided to start basically from scratch.

    The next few months will consist of building up easy mileage using a HRM so as not to run everything too fast (ran a couple of runs this week with one and it's clear i've been doing this up to now). I've got a few early league road races during this time but i'm just going to run them at set HR range and see where that gets me.

    This is basically Hadd principles so I might dip in and out of that forum a little bit. I have plenty of hours a week available as i'm used to training 10-15 for triathlons so should be able to build up a healthy distance. (Who knows, if you think i'm that interesting I might even start my own thread to log progress haha!)

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