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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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IronCat5 wrote (see)
Not on my watch it wasn't, sorry.
I suggested it was the niggles that appeared seemingly from nowhere after some speedwork, were a result of structures un gluing themselves. Structures that had become hooked up due to a combination of dehydration (technical) and an inadequate warm down from a previous effort.
These niggles (I believe Jonnas had a version lately) disappear in a day or so.
It was in fact the Bus who recommended 'teaching the niggles and injuries a lesson', by going out and smashing them to bits.
It's the support for this kind of nonsense that has led to my absence.
I deal in common sense. End of.
🙂
Ric, don't be an absentee. Thread is better for having your opinions on it.
though if I being honest I too thought you had given out an opinion that some faster running could unstick things and could be an alternative to rest/stretching in certain situations.
A top female runner I know friend on FB did 50x200m last night 30 sec recovery so sorry guys we've all got a bit of work to do!!
Since I'm the men's captain, I can't really complain in terms of the club side - in our case it's more a question of the runners themselves not being interested, which is a shame but not really a surprise. Part of it is that many of our runners are very marathon-focused, and the 12-stage is not long beforehand and people are getting final preparations done, big long runs in etc. Also, many of our runners are people who came to running later and to a certain extent had learned to do their own thing and having their own priorities before joining, as opposed to people who came through the juniors and who are more used to aiming for the same races as a team. I would love to be able to be part of relay teams at the nationals etc, but that's unlikely to happen at my club, and you pays your money and takes your choice I suppose.
Dunno what the hell that message was about. it quotes a post I've never quoted twice, and then quotes Matt twice. and then half of Dean. Tried editing it about 5 times, and it makes no difference. Don't bother reading it.
Am not having Bus being parodied in his absence. He’s consistently the most realistic and supportive poster on this thread, and as we know it’s all very easy telling someone else to rest up, then it is to take the advice yourself.
He’s been running and racing 14 years now, he’s right into his later 40s, and I think he provides a more accurate idea to any lurkers of what running can be like so far in. There’s certainly no-one encouraging him to thrash injuries to bits.
Rob, are those 200s at 10k pace? That’d explain 50, covering the 10,000m in short sections.
Had my first sortee up to the new track today. Nice set up, off the main road, but sort of hidden from it, painted green, to fit in with the rural setting, and all very smart. Didn’t previously think i’d be able to get there, do a session, then get back to work, but I trialled it and it worked well today. After i’d hurdled a fence to get in, i noticed that you can actually stroll in at the back! Typical.
3miles at 10k pace continuously was the super tough sounding challenge. Haven’t done much at 10k for yonks, and probably haven’t run on a track for over 9months now.
10k zone is 5.30 (1.22 lap), but the pb pace is 5.33(1.23 lap). But am I at pb fitness? Probably not. Therefore, I decided to use 1.22 as a vague benchmark, and just see how it went.
I’m sure I can hit 1.22s for 800s or 1ks, but for 3miles in one go? Super hard.
A previous attempt at a prolonged 10k session back in January last year was an absolute disaster, and that was only 2miles at 10k pace, but I was off pace after lap 1 back then, due to underfuelling, lack of sleep etc.
Tried not to remember that just before!
Set off, 1.18, 1.21,1.22, 1.24 first 1600 – average on target, but already slipping down after a too fast start
1.24,1.24,1.25,1.26 - dipping off a bit – windy, mind screaming “just have a rest after mile 2”, “just throw an easy lap in”
Ignored that, and told myself i’d do 2 more laps then have a rest - 1.25,1.26
Lied to myself, didn’t take a rest 1.25, 1.24 to finish
Overall average 1.24 which would be 5.38 average pace (obviously ignoring the watch reading of 5.24 pace, 16.48, 3.1miles on the watch – if only!)
Plenty of thoughts after. Not zone or pb pace, but 5.38 is 35:00 pace 10k, so not bad. And 3miles continuous (well 4800 metres rather than the 4827 if we’re being pedantic) is a pretty big ask, after never succeeding in anything longer than 1mile at 10k before.
Was I working hard enough? I could feel my gut fit to burst, vague dizziness and sweating eyes, so i’d probably say yes. And needed a lie down after.
Was i knackered as I ran off after? Not really...
Funny old game
makes sense then Rob. I expect it's still tough, but not as impossible sounding as it could do!
If i had the choice between 50x200 or 3miles continuous again, i'd probably go the former!
Good session there SG. Beware the back entrance, quite wet and messy round there.
Of course I refer to the fact that the track is built right next to the river in a flood plain so drainage is an issue.
my word Phil, you should be in the carry ons!
Look forward to a nice 4mile pootle in a bit!
I'll clarify this fast running niggle issue.
I'd never recommend blasting through them as a means to clear them, some do but not me.
I'm talking about going out uninjured, running fast and getting what appears to be an injury from nowhere. I suggested the faster running with the increased blood flow released something which gives the impression of an injury.
A day or two later there's nothing there at all.
It was about not worrying that every twinge was an injury. Sometimes its just some structure unsticking itself.
🙂
cheers Ric...that makes sense
I'm glad about that Dean..
🙂
That's annoying - the long post I did just before heading home has vanished! Must have not clicked on submit before I dashed for the train.
Anyway, to summarise - been very busy this week, so not posted though have read a bit and some pretty tasty sessions around!
SG - thanks, good session. Sounds hard and a good pace nonetheless.
Ric - I never "recommended" any such thing! I said that is what I would do to myself and like everyone else on this forum I can form and state my own opinion! I have never claimed to be an expert on anything but if anyone wants to learn from my mistakes they are welcome to! You yourself recommended that I should run through discomfort on increasingly long runs to shift scar tissue. Not the same as thrashing an injury of course, but not necessarily "common sense" . As it happens, I took your advice and it worked.
You state you deal in "common sense" and yet your opinions seem to change like the wind - 18 months ago it was copious fluid and tuna bagels before and during a run, more recently it's daily 12 milers on an empty stomach! Whatever works for you I say, but don't peddle it as gospel for all! As I've stated many times, we are all an experiment of one.
As for your absence - last time you posted was nothing to do with niggles or the kind of "nonsense" us simpletons on here only understand, but smacked of impetuosity because SG had dared to question a detail about one of your sessions and I asked if you had got out of bed the wrong side!.
Personally I enjoy your posts. They seem generally well-informed, sometimes amusing and/or strangely left-field, but just occasionally condescending and overly judgmental.
And on a lighter note - best of luck tomorrow Philip
Ah! I can see now why there are so many ex posters on this thread. Keep it. I've said all I'm going to.
🙂
Come on ric, nothing bus posted was insulting or rude. Look at how he ended his post, no reason to stay away. There is a lot of love in this forum for you.
imo running is simple, it was simple when I broke school records aged 10 wearing football boots over Xc and its best kept simple now I'm in my 40s. Run the fast stuff fast and the slow stuff slow and all the other stuff is just noise.
Ok Dean, I'll go with that. Taking sensible advice is one of my strong points. I can always get talked around.
With Bus, I can see the potential for great improvements. It's simply my understanding; opinion if you like, that he needs to stop 'forcing' the running pace. If he did what I did; jog slowly, ie 8 & 9 minute ml pace for a minimum of two weeks, he'll see it.
Pain and effort, the body can only tolerate so much before it quits.
🙂
Good stuff.
Decent morning's work for me. 9 miles done, starting slowly but with 6:14 and 6:01 miles at the end to get some work into the legs, a few strides, then a parkrun in 16:30 (2nd) and a warm down to make a total of 14ish.
Now for a cup of tea and a creme egg.
Creme egg??!! Very nice parkrun time slipped in there Dachs - most impressive.
Dean - exactly as I meant, so thanks.
As it happens, most of my runs are done at 8.30+ pace these days, with only 1 speed session a week, occasionally with a race. My injury issue over the last 18 months is probably down to a number of things:
1. My impatience, both in recovery from problems and post races
2. I like hills too much
3. I'm getting old and don’t accept or manage it – links to 1.!
4. Possibly a bit of bad luck, but mainly my own doing.
Ric - personally I don't think I have the potential for any serious improvements, and my ambitions are limited to sub 36 10k, sub 18 5k (should be a given!), sub 29 5M and as a stretch, sub 1:18:36 half. As it happens, I’m reasonably happy with where I am given age, family commitments and a challenging job to balance. A few niggles is a small price to pay to get out and enjoy running and racing.
Anyway, parkrun today. Nice and firm underfoot and some company at the sharp end made for a course PB for me, though only 5th . Started far too quickly trying to stay with a local rival who I used to beat, but now seems to have moved up a level. Wretched retching at 4.5k may have cost the sub 18 and finished in 18:07. I was also overtaken by two runners just before the line and couldn’t respond, but otherwise happy with that – sub 18 next time out!!!
Sorry about another long, self indulgent, rambling post!!
Wonder how Philip is getting on…
Bus, your post is closer to an erudite explanation of the facts. Hardly a ramble.
Despite my apparent abrasiveness, my gut wish is for both you and SG; and anyone else around here, to go shatter their pb's.
I missed Phil's current endeavour, what's he doing?
🙂
Bus, 2 seconds faster than my parkrun PB.
dachs, a good mornings work there, with a very tidy parkrun.
i did my cruise tempo interval session. Basically it's a cowards tempo session as you get 60 secs rec. the rec is meaningless really but is easier on the mind. 5*1m target 5.24 off 60 sec rec. they came out 5.20, 5.21, 5.24, 5.23, 5.21. Felt controlled and comfortable so it's time to up the rep length but keep the low rec. then one day build towards doing a real tempo session with no rec
I know you do Ric - I liken this forum to a bunch of us chewing the fat in our local with a lot of experience and wisdom mixed in with some old wives tales and occasional hot air under our combined curmudgeonly belts!
Phil's running a marathon today - Spring Shakespeare. If all goes to plan he'll be finishing at just before ten past 1...
Nice Parkrunning there Bus and a solid run if the wretch is there.
Great time too Dachs, even more so with a brisk 9 mile warm up!
Nice tempo intervals Dean.
A very tasty parkrun Dachs, and Bus I'm sure on a decent 5km course that time is yours for the taking. Good consistent reps Dean.
I'm not going to blow smoke up Ric's 'arris suffice to say I'm glad you're back posting again.
~90km on the bike today followed by a breakfast bap in the cafe afterwards. The last 10km was a struggle to keep focussed and awake.