Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Good running Scott and Pete, good time in that weather Scott - although yesterday at Grafham water (Cambs) it was pretty windy and pissing down all morning, attending a Triatholon as the missus was ding some massage.

    Bus - a half in the summer? asking for trouble there!

    Stevie - on paths I just go for the 'leg it hard for 30 secs' and then use that as the marker for reps. Very Scientific image

    Dean - yes watched all the Watford BMC on Vinco. Alex Yee 14.20 and Nick Torry from Kent AC 14.2x for a v35! Good performances froma couple of Herne Hillers, Lewis LLoyd in the 1500 and Stacey in the womens 5000.

    They got lucky with the weather too didn't they..grrrr image

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Great run Scott on a hot and hilly half, definitely shows a sub 75 could be very much on the cards.  Find a flat one though!  Gosport?

    Nice double-header Pete.  Not sure a parkrun the day before a race is a tactic I'll try to use though.

    Never bother timing 200m reps on anything other than a track.  Either I use 200m markers in the park and try to run at consistent effort, or I just use my Garmin to measure approximately 200m, but don't bother with what the time was.  It's more fun to blast them without any time pressure anyway I find.

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭

    Quick question about Woodley parkrun Dachs, how do you avoid all the "fun runners" on lap 3 which you must do pretty well to finish in around 16. Whenever I've done that one they're all over the place and don't seem to like running less than 3 abreast on the narrow paths! 

  • Thanks guys,



    Possibly Gosport Dachs have to see what my training and focus goes to after this.. 10km Friday then another in Brighton on 15th July which think PP is down for!



    The way I'm thinking I'll probably run IOW HM mid August as I'll be over there that weekend anyway but won't think about time if I'm specifying training for 3/5km



    And just focus on a bit of short stuff then re build and probably target another HM sometime early next year but probably mainly aims to do Chichester / Eastleigh / stubbington 10kms
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Pete, I just weave around as much as possible.  Most of them were quite good yesterday, as there was a specific announcement to keep left to let runners through from behind, though I still think without the lapping I might have dipped under 16.

    In general, since I live right on that park and run/walk around there a lot, I have a pretty good idea of where I can step off the path and hit firm/even ground to overtake, even on the narrow bits by the lake, so that helps.

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Scott - Great HM, definitely sub-75 on the right course.  (x-post...)  See you in Brighton!

    Simon - Just need to point out a correction in your Watford round-up.  Alex Yee, Kent AC, 14:09.  Took 12 seconds out of Nick Torry. Not bad for a 17 year-old whose first passion is triathlon!  image  He's only just old enough to qualify for running in the senior relays for us this year.  Incredible talent.

    I had fun yesterday running through sunny poppy fields on the North Downs Run (30k)... till I twisted my ankle on a flat piece of tarmac.  D'oh!  Thankfully it was about 6k to go, no permanent damage done and managed to hold my 7th spot, five minutes slower than last year but 2nd V40 (I won the V40 prize because club mate Chris G went out and won the race) and first team. Quads a little tender today.

  • PP - Oh god his First passion is tri? Thats even more depressing isn't it. Saw the start of the North Downs race in Greenwood's tweet..god knows what you looked like at the end of the race!! I did it in 2002 or 2003 - can't get the results.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭

    Well done Scott.

    Pete - I find Woodley Parkrun a bit of a pain on the third lap, worst bit is the downhill by the lake where you can pick up quite a bit of speed and there always seems to be a guy with a dog there! Still for free can't complain.

    lunchtime intervals (6x800 90 sec rest/jog) on my usual stretch of road, it was too hot and I had pretty bad stomach issues. Times were nothing to write home about but I was happy to get through it with my dignity in tact! Average 2:46

    Shoulder is feeling a lot better, hoping to be back in the pool sometime this week. Only four weeks to my main race and I haven't swum in weeks.

     

     

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭

    thanks Andrew & Dachs, must give Woodley another go soon as its definitely a fast course if you can manage a clearish run round!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Nice run out at the NDR PP. hope the ankle is OK.

    Nice reps Andrew. Good to see you didn't try the swimming in a sling option in the endimage

    Nike to work and back for me today. 14M + 14.5M. First time I've been on the road bike since April! Picked a nice day for it too.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭

    Thanks Bus. For a minute there I thought you'd run 28.5 miles in a day!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Nah - that's tomorrow image

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    PP - good work on the North Downs, with all this track stuff going on I'd almost forgotten people ran distances like that.  Nice trophy claiming, and glad you got away with your twist.

    Andrew - speedy reps on the road.

    Last Vets League match last night.  I was really hoping we'd have some takers for the 800 so I could attack the 3000 on fresh legs, but it was not to be, so ended up with both.

    Standing on the start line of the 800, the air was thick with swarms of tiny black flies, seemingly attracted to sweat and settling all over our arms, faces, vests and legs,  Deeply unpleasant, and made us impatient to get going.  After the break I settled into 3rd, and felt controlled for an opening 65 lap just behind the two leaders, but as the second lap began they started to pull away (I knew they would) and I started to tie up.  Finished in a safe 3rd for 2:13.7.  PB is 2:13.1, and I was realty hoping I could have smashed that, but couldn't do it.  I really should be running much quicker than that, but hey ho.

    Then an hour or so of milling around trying to keep the legs moving, and onto the 3000.  The usual suspects in this league are there, James from Abingdon and Julian and Les from Oxford.  Two of them have also done the 800, so we'll see how that pans out.  A bit of a scramble from the start, and James takes the lead with me back in third.  He sets a quick opening lap of 70, but it feels OK.  Second lap comes, and we're all still in the same order, and that's a 73, which is OK given the opener.  I've scooted round Julian into 2nd, but we're all still following the procession, with the predicted front 4 having broken well away, but its a 74, so the pace is slipping and I need to get a move on if I want to be anywhere round 9.  Surge past James and take the lead and almost immediately open a gap.  This looks like a mid-race surge from those behind, but I really didn't intend it to be so sudden.

    The 1500 comes up in 4:33, and I feel like I'm on my own now, but don't want to look back and check.  It's going to be a hell of a job pulling back a sub-9 from here though, and would require close to a 1500 PB!  Just try to keep the hammer down for the last few laps to at least get a PB (9:15).  I'm clear in the lead, maybe I can finally win one of these after a string of 2nds.

    Bell goes and I think I've got a 3-4 second gap.  Who's it over though?  One of the guys has blistering 800 pace, but is it him that's following?  Try to make the last lap a fast one, and I've still got the gap at 200 to go.  In the bag now, surely!  But at 150 to go I hear footsteps and all of a sudden Les is alongside and flies past me at a pace I probably couldn't live with even fresh, and takes the win.  The crowd love it, and I'm the fall guy. Balls!

    Pretty sure my last lap was the fastest of the race, so there's just nothing I could have done against that kind of kick.  I knew I'd have to build a lead, so it was the right tactics, just couldn't get a big enough gap.

    Still, consoled with 9:05.8 for a new 10-second PB, and there were a couple of quality runners behind me.  On the right day, in the right race, a sub-9 is very definitely on.

    Then a leg of the 4 x 200, but the less said about that the better.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    By the way, I marvel at how I can only run 10 seconds faster for a flat out 800 than I can for a comfortable-feeling opening 800 of a 3000.

  • Dachs 5 secs a lap at that pace is significant image well done on your big improvement over 3k definitely more to come, I'm a great believer in getting time in the bank first 4/5 laps then the rest takes care of itself!!

  • Great stuff Dachs - Yes, sub 9 definitely on there - think i've got another 800/3000 double on Monday week at Perivale, hopefully my Egyptian mate will have improved and then he can drag me round and I can get my 800 under 2.10! image Watford 29/7? (yes i'll keep advertising it!) I'm going to try one of those 'is this a good idea?' races and aim for sub 8.50..

    I like the brave way Rob goes at it - but i'm more of a coward and go to try and go by the metronome method!

  • Simon I should have said Used to like....

  • Great PB Dachs and the 800 would have added a few seconds too!
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • Solid there Dachs. Almost as fast as I was as a youngster nowimage

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Very quick Dachs - nice!

    Lovely and hot today image Double XC - 7.5M early doors when it was cool and 5.5M just now when it was boiling! Reasonable pace considering.

     

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Go on then PMJ, you know you want to, let's have your lifetime bests so I know what I'm shooting at.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Good racing and reports all. Great fun reading these. On this thread the descriptions are so good it's like being in the actual race....minus the effort...oxygen debt... leg pains... thirst. image.

    Yes that's it. Just read about it. Easier.

    As for me. Leg is just about fixed. I haven't run a yard in over a week. Sometimes you have to give up and stop mucking about testing the problem.

    Went out on the new MB. Hard to tell if I'm doing any work at all just riding along, it certainly felt easy enough. 

    🙂

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭

    Good move Ric, I have always done a lot of base fitness stuff on my MB (even if mostly trundling to work on roads!) and am confident it reduces injury risk compared to just running. Hope you're fully fit for running again soon though.

    Rubbish session for me early evening; was supposed to be 400:800:1200 x2 off 90 seconds (400) and 120 (the others). Couldn't even do the last 1200 in one hit and struggling to do 6mm pace by the end. Better write that one off and blame the heat and tiredness from the w/e.

     

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Dachs - nice work on the 3000 pb. I think in the right race a sub 9 is there.   Oh and as rob says 5 secs a lap on 800 is massive..   Think how different a 400m rep session is doing them in 65s than 70.  

    also think I missed pp 5000 recently.  Nice work

    i had a 1500 last night. Training has been going well. No complaints there.  Although last week I had some injury niggles to deal with, so nothing of note from wed to Sunday due to calfs.  Very warm last night , no wind so good conditions.  Plan was to race rather than time trial it.    gun goes and I sit in 4th just off the leader, was a fast 200 whilst we all jostled and pushed into position but the leader slowed it down and went through 400 in 63. I feel strong and I'm in a perfect position. 2nd lap and it starts to pick up and a few go past but I'm in the lead group but then slows a lot to go through 800 in 2.10.  Under target pace but thought that plays into my hands for a fast finish. 3rd lap was a blur but not for any good reasons, the race got away from me and I couldn't hold the pace. I tried but was only a 70.  I managed to muster some speed for the remainder and finish in 4.08.47. A half sec sb but 3.5 secs off a pb.  Last 400 was a 63.  

    Coach and I are confused why i am training at a much higher level yet not delivering in races.  So going to look at changing my training plan and also my preparation going into races. Still 6 weeks until Lyon, so still time to find the magic formula.

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Cheers Pete, I may be going out for a mile or so in a few minutes.

    Dean, still looks ok from where I'm currently sitting.

    As for not delivering in races. There's a clue which to me is pretty obvious. It's training at a much higher level. 

    That to me indicates that you are now training at more than 100% of the previous phase; which even one year back is relevant. That is bound to impact on current race form. You're still in the trough of a training cycle.

    Reverting to the training loads of last term will; and I'm confident of this, get you out of the trough and up the peak. Then you'll see where that extra training has gone.

    It's odds on, your coach has already worked this out.

     

    🙂

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Ric - just recieved a message at 7am from my coach saying the same thing. image 

  • Good stuff Dean - It will come mate, sub 4.05 I reckon..best to peak for the champs eh??

    3 sets of 800, 600,400 on the grass last night, think it was 2.28,1.49,70 - 2.23,1.44,69 - 2.22,1.43,66.

    Decent enough, well hot as you can imagine - had a certain GB xc lady with us - . She didn;t do the whole session with us. Her other half is back from the states so good to someone else rather than just Kimpton to lag behind.

    It was my 43rd birthday yesterday - so got bought a pint of shandy after too by coach Simmons.  good! He's going to help me with the sub 8.50 3k attempt, by trying some sessions set for the GB xc visitor.. Might do the trick!!

  • Dachs wrote (see)

    Go on then PMJ, you know you want to, let's have your lifetime bests so I know what I'm shooting at.

    Dachs, the comment was written with more emphasis on younger and less on self.

    As an example, say we pick 800m as a sensible lower limit on this forum. The WAVA tables show that the open standard applies from 22 to 34 years old and at 40 you are 95.05%.

    If you run the marathon then the open runs from 23 to 35 and at 40 you are at 97.59%.

    The simple fact is there is a much greater degradation in performance as a function of age over shorter distances.

    Your recently set PBs beat my historic ones over the longer distances when I was about 10 years younger than you now (so 74.xx half, 55.xx 10 miles and 33.xx 10 km where xx is pretty near 59) but at shorter distances where I was in my early 20s I scraped inside sub 9 for 3k and it was only 800m where I couldn't get under the minute barrier so a scatter of results round 2.04 and 2.05.

    At the 800m, last year Anthony Whiteman (V40) confounded all the stats and came 14th in the UK overall rankings, and Dean was 5th in V40 but 704th overall and only 8 V40 in the top 1305.

    Marathon Steve Way was the stats oddity in 2014 with 5th overall but there are 32 V40 athletes in the top 250 marathoners in 2014.

     

    Put simply: start young and get you short PBs in while young. Chasing sub 2 as a V40 is way harder than U23.

     

  • Nice season best Dean! You're time will come! You always planned to peak later so this could simply be a period where the body is catching up with that training



    About to watch men's 1500m heats - 800 was won in 1.53 yesterday. Women's 400 probably pick of the day with the girl winning in 53.4



    Nice session SC and 8:50 well on the cards with you running 15:3x every day of the week image
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Not up to statistical analysis of WAVA in the manner of PMJ, my observations show the way that the %'s tell a story.

    James Baker (Americans would call him the winniest runner in the world) has currently 455 WAVA entries of more than 80%. Whereas, I have a mere 34. 

    However, his highest rating is 86.85 which means he has only four WAVA's better than my best of 86.42.

    There are plenty of runners who have several WAVA's better than 86.85%, the main difference is they have very few entries at all.

     

    🙂

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