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Cracking stuff Lev; you & PP, TT all seem more than well prepared for Berlin so I'll be looking forward to the results on race morning.
Fair enough DanA, I thought you might be tempted given it's the course where the gods usually smile on you! LS21 is another new posh bogs qualifier so you can compare notes on pre race nerves on the day.
Charlie.. just turn up and dig in; last minute injuries/niggles to the competition, runners going the wrong way, no shows etc, you never know your luck
11m + 4m for me today. 11 degrees this morning FFS, long sleeves out again!
TT - I would say that it feels like I have been keeping fit rather than training. The last time I pushed myself hard was the Salisbury 10 in March, feels a bit like December when I run a bit more and swim and bike less.
Amusing that folks are running the race via an entry list before its even started, if the others are being coy with their predicted times then it might be a surprise.
Wardi - I had gloves on today !
Lev - sounds like you're sharpening up nicely, looking forward to seeing the results at Berlin (not just yours).
Solid training by ES and Wardi.
Dan - I think I might actually hold the slowest time ever run from the Champs start: 5:28:45. So you've got that to beat!
Good luck to everyone racing at the weekend.
Club handicap last night - I hadn't entered because of tomorrow, but ran most of it with a couple of mates, 5M inc. 3.3M at about 6 m/m. Probably more/faster than I should have done 36 hours before the 12 hour race, but it felt easy and nice to stretch the legs a bit.
Hello hello, what's going on? We'll have no trouble here.
So, not posted since about April, when I was still basking in my magnificence of running a Champs time *fist pump* Fair to say my pace has deteriorated slightly since then, in that I can't even sustain what was MP for more than 5k these days. Still, nevermind.
TBH I've not kept tabs on the thread at all. But I'm sitting in an empty shop waiting for the electricity board to turn up to replace my meter, so thought I'd read back a few pages. I've kept tabs on quite a few peeps via Facebook, so I know PP is absolutely flying, TT has been on Safari, I have a comprehensive spreadsheet of all CW's rucksack weights (I'll email it to you TR), know that joolska is still running well etc. Must admit I didn't know there was a Mr. joolska though - not sure if he sounds like a Bond villain or a cbeebies character. Still, well done etc.
Some scarily fast training going on from various folks. Blimey, really looking forward to seeing the Berlin times.
Special mention to Dan too - as race reports go, that had a bit of everything! Hope you get to the bottom of the food/fuelling/stomach issues too - must be horrible for the same thing to keep happening all the time.
Re me. Well I am now a genuine resident in the Lake District-cestershire. Moved at the beginning of August. Bought a little shop which will be open in a month's time, so just busy sorting that. I've joined Keswick AC too and am getting my running mojo back, so glad just to be logging a few miles again. Not particularly quick or fit but I'm not too phased - it'll soon come back, and I've no real targets TBH. So I'll just see how things pan out. Met up with Charlie W a couple of weeks ago just before he headed back home, and it was great to see him!
Hope everyone else is well anyway. Keswick parkrun for me tomorrow - hoping to break 19'00.....!!
TR -- guilty as charged on the entry list stalking!
LS -- great to see your shop coming together, and a delight to meet up with you and Stuart Little at the end of my hols. (And well spotted -- is MrJools a high-performance partner like MsPP we wonder?)
Anyway, best of luck to you tomorrow Padams.
Not much to report here -- a quick tune-up run round the park this morning, which showed my legs still work but not terribly quickly. We'll see...
Ok, so after my run home yesterday my foot went from being swollen and painful to not being able to put any weight on it. This morning it was on fire and so swollen I couldn't fit my trainer on, so off to A&E. Being honest, I wasn't overly surprised. When the time off didn't make a difference and it was hurting before every run, and getting worse, I figured it was only a matter of time - the flipside is that it is too close to Berlin to do anything other than run and hope it improves.
The good news is there is no stress fracture, so that's something at least
Apparently it is metatarsalgia. The point of impact and the centre of the pain, is right between the 2nd and 3rd metatarsal and the doc reckons it has shifted both metatarsals slightly, which, in conjunction with the inflammation is hitting all the nerves in the area (hence the feeling of it being on fire).
She has said there is no way I should even consider running the half this weekend and said recovery time can be anything from a few days to a few weeks (or longer if unlucky, so wasn't too upbeat about the odds of me running Berlin (never mind being recovered to actually train).......
I've not given up yet. The way I see it I have a few more throws of the dice available and if I can get to the stage where I can run with discomfort (rather than pain), well it's only 3 weeks and I can recover after.
I'm waiting for a call back to see if I can get a cortisone injection, have bags of ice, a pharmacy full of painkillers, arnica, gels, and some metatarsal pads due tomorrow (apparently they reduce the pain by cushioning directly under the area).
Flipping typical though that I'm in aerobically brilliant shape and can't run simply because of landing on a stone in a pair of flimsy lightweight trainers (I was toying with the idea of going back to regular cushioned trainers for most of my runs anyway, but that's a given now).
Apologies for the 'me me me'!
I think you're pretty justified in being 'me, me, me', TT. Everything crossed for you - hope they are able to do the cortisone injection and that it is a miracle cure given the training you've been able to put together.
Greetings, LS21. No, you won't have seen Mr. Jools on FB - I keep my private life off there! He goes for the occasional jog and (given his relatively poor timekeeping) quite frequently runs for buses/trains, but is definitely not a runner. Until I was able to prove with my VLM result that I'm not actually too bad at this running lark I think it's fair to say he was rather bemused by it all!
DanA: inspiring courage and engrossing race report
TT: sorry to hear that. I hope your avatar proves apt.
LS21: good to see you, hope the grand opening goes well
Two big changes for me over the last week. First we moved house at the weekend and then today mini-p 1 had his first day at school, he had his brand new uniform all on by 7am he was so excited.
With the various distractions of moving house I haven't done any sessions over the last week but have at least kept up volume, 15M home yesterday at 7:36mm being my longest run for quite a while.
I've tried a couple more runs at higher cadence, and do suspect it is probably the way to go, but it places different demands on the muscles and so I am introducing it gradually. I don't normally wear a HRM but may introduce it for extra data, plus the HRM is also meant to include something that measures vertical movement while running, which would at least be interesting to see.
Missed opportunity there Jools - there is that delightful FB feature with the words (e.g.)... 'Cressida is in a relationship with Tarquin' showing a photo of the smitten couple complete with a blue heart hovering overhead. A bit soppy though!
TT.. that is wretched luck, though stout footwear for rough trails is something that was bashed into me in schooldays! Cortisone definitely worth a try even if it costs a bit. I went from painful running to pain free in the space of 4 days after a cortisone jab. Your injury is very different but the powerful anti-inflammatory effect might just do the trick and hasten the recovery.
Pisc.. congrats on the house move, does this mean lots of new routes to explore or are you still 'local'? My last house move was about 200 yards!
All the best with the move & shop LS21, will be sure to call in when we're next up there.
Good luck to Padams too for the 12 hour race
Thought I'd get back posting on here a bit now I can finally say I've started marathon training - had a really frustrating series of niggles following a pretty good summer on the track (first top of foot pain which was worryingly similar to a stress fracture but seemed to sort itself out then recurrent glute/hamstring issues after starting back a bit too quickly running a relay with some people from work).
First to try and catch up a bit with the thread -
DanA sounds slightly crazy to keep going after all that but very impressive to get through it and finish that strongly.
TT from recent experience foot injuries can be rather frustrating and not obvious how to speed up recovery - hope it clears up quickly and you can make the most of the training you've been doing
Sounds like autumn marathon training's generally been going pretty well, will be interesting to see how the occasional run and lots of XT training works again Lev. Particularly good running PP - on track for a good time in Berlin and an interesting variety of training as always CW. Good luck with the 12hr race Padams, not quite sure how that's something to look forward though!
As often seems to be the case eventually started to get over the niggles by just trying to run more - first a week of orienteering every day (watching the world champs in Scotland) then 69miles over a long bank holiday weekend in the Lakes including 3hrs round the Landgdale pikes and 4hrs with an accidentally extended variation on the Fairfield horseshoe (ended up going into the Patterdale valley...), now finally seem to be able to train properly and enjoy running again. Not really that long to Frankfurt but will just have to see how things go - might have to wait until London for a proper build up. Worst case it'll just be a good base for winter XC/spring marathon training.
TT - You seem to have an optimistic outlook on things so I'll just back up hopes of a genuine Zatopek effect. Godspeed and all that. Come on, we need you in Berlin! (( ))
LS21 - Damn, those hills look fantastic! I'm gonna make sure I get back up to that neck of the woods next year and buy some mint cake off you or whatever else it is you may be pedalling. Fancy any of the Lakeland Trails series?
Not sure what place I came in last night's 3 mile local club league race but I ran it as planned as a threshold effort, and ended up running exactly target HM pace on an undulating course, feeling very fresh. Then another non-running Friday today, but not the usual. Having been a veteran of the outdoor velodrome at Herne Hill for many years, I had my first ever go on the Olympic velodrome in Stratford this afternoon. (Smaller, faster, steeper bankings.) Fantastic fun, although being a taster session for beginners it was extremely tame and a little frustratingly within my skill range, but the easy effort level wasn't such a bad thing a couple of days before a big race. Taper's kicking in nicely.
Cheers all. I'll find out Monday if they'll do the cortisone injection but it didn't sound particularly hopeful as they're not keen to do it in that area because of the (miniscule) risk of causing fat pad atrophy.
Wardi - it's not a mistake I'll make again!
PP - if the last (almost) year has taught me anything it's that this is only running and there are worse thing that can happen than an injury. Plus I've only just begun to feel relaxed again after all the stress and I'm not about to give that up easily
I've progressed to being able to move my toes slightly again, but the whole front of my foot feels like it's on fire.
I did do a lot of Lev style XT over them weeks and shortly after getting back running I ran 32.33 and a 45 second PB at 10k. If I could live with the boredom again I'd prob do more XT again.
Things looking good PP and good luck for the half!
LS21, I was up Keswick last weekend and had a run up Skiddaw on Saturday before getting a bit merry round Keswick in the afternoon. Amazing place is the Lake District and even though I'm only an hour or so away I'm ashamed to say I've hardly done any running up there even though I enjoy fell running.
Good luck for the 12 hour race Padams. What will your nutrition be for that?
Any plans pace wise or just take it as it comes?
One of the solo runners at the Thunder Run went through a marathon at sub 3 on an off road hilly grass course. It's fair to say it came back to bite him with another 21 hours to go.
I managed to get a decent month in with just over 450 miles for August. Had no ill effects from my full distance run and managed the BAC sessions so far and some easy long runs and also had a good one last Friday. 15 @ 6.40ish then finished with 5 at around 5.45 pace.
Cutback week this week although I've got a 20 mile race tomorrow. What's everyone thoughts on running a 20m race? Do you run them progressively or would you split it up into sections? I was thinking 3 steady, 7@MP, 3 steady then the final 7@ MP?
Blimey Matt, August has been a good month! You're clearly a machine and could probably blast a 20 miler @ MP and do a few hills afterwards!
But seriously, 5 mile warm-up and 15 @ MP is the most I've ever put into one, but I think your plan looks like a good one as well. Just keep the MP honest towards the end so that it feels like you could keep running on through at the finish. (And for god's sake, at least beat my pb of 2:00:01.) Where is it?
Hello again everyone
Well I failed
19'09 at the parkrun. Still, a marginal 15 second improvement from the last one. Still barely quicker than what was MP a few months ago, but nevermind. I have ran 93 miles in the last 7 days, so maybe not as fresh as I'd like. I actually felt ok though, I'm just crap.
TT - as I've said elsewhere, not good. But if you can make the start line the prolonged rest might not be a bad thing. Good luck anyway.
piscator - hope the move went well. FWIW I pissed about trying to speed my cadence up a couple of years ago. Since I thought 'sod it, this is how I run' I've ran really well (if you discount the last 3 months....) I'm not saying don't experiment. Just that 180 steps per minute isn't ideal for everyone. I'm more 170ish.
wardi - nice one! I'm still hoping to get over for the Brass Monkey again too, so will hopefully see you at some point.
bufo - just see how it goes. My Abo prep last year was far from ideal (I only ran 85 miles for the whole of August) but I ended up having a great run. So you never know. Just see how it goes on the day.
PP - yes quite possibly re the Lakeland series. I'd not realised how big it is actually. The Keswick round is today (Race HQ next to the post-parkrun cafe). Looked a big event, lots of runners etc so I'll have a look for sure. Always welcome to stay at ours too if you fancied it? Sofa bed in the living room so not exactly the Ritz, but plenty of room.
Matt3 - blimey that's some impressive mileage! I'm still finding my feet a bit up here re routes etc, and I'm chuffin' useless on the fells. I'm fairly inept on the roads truth be told, but anything more technical than a slightly lowered kerb for someone's drive and I'm in trouble. Oh and I dod the 5 easy 15 at MP at Trimpell this year (organised by the same folk as tomorrow's race I think). It worked well for me, and they put on good races. So hope it goes well.
TT - Good work on being philosophical about it all and hopefully you'll recover in time to give Berlin a decent tilt.
Padams - Hope today has been good - 12 hours sounds like a very long time!
Matt3 - Monster training
Last few days have just been getting the miles in with nothing really of note. Today I went and got retested at the place I went to 4 months ago for VO2/LT testing. Not got the full report yet but VO2 remained unchanged (no surprise) and LT was quicker. 2kg lighter and HR 8-10bts lower for the same pace. All good fun and everything pointing the right way for 4 weeks' time.
Also did 2x12000 @ 3:54 afterwards to make it a full session
Newbie here so be nice! Might be a bit late to the party too as hoping and praying to get my first ever sub 3 at Bournemouth in only 4 weeks time. Got close in the Spring with a 3:01 at Manchester but feeling much better prepared this time around. Been consistently averaging 65-75 miles/week and (very loosely) following P&D plan.
Essentially have two question for you knowledgeable and speedy lot;
1. Planning one (or at a stretch 2) more hard sessions of about 20 miles with a prolonged stretch at MP. Just wondered how long you would expect (or want) to sustain at MP for a session like that? Was thinking about 16 miles would be a big confidence boost but seem some on here going up to 20 miles. Any consensus?
2. Probably also got one more long run of about 23-24 miles planned. If I'm aiming for 6:50/mile mp does 7:30/mile for a long training run sound reasonable or a bit too slow?
By the looks of things am not in the same league as some of you speed-merchants but would be interested to hear what had worked for others. Advice much appreciated
IMO 7:30 is probably a touch too quick for that length run with the target you have, particularly if there's a big MP long run coming up as well; for what it's worth I'm targeting 6:03 and the 23 milers I've done have been 7:05, 7:00 and 6:52. With only 4 weeks to go I would suggest only 1 of the MP runs.
This is all just my opinion and there are plenty of wiser and quicker people around who I'm sure will come along and help shortly.
Good luck at Bournemouth. I'm running a little one in Mablethorpe on the same day.
LS21 - good to hear you're alive and well in the Lakes. Might come up and visit for some hill running next year. Go and find us some nice routes, there's a good lad.
Matt3 - Other might disagree, but imo there's no upside in racing a 20 miler in a marathon build up. I've run loads at Finchley & Bramley, but never turned a good result into a good marathon. Eg, 2:04 turned into a 3h10, 2:05 into 3.02, 2:02 into 2.48. Can't be a co-incidence that my two best times (2.45 & 2.44) came after firstly DNF'ing after 10 miles when not feeling 100%, then this year a progressive 2.15 finishing the last couple at just quicker than MP.
Healing vibes to TT.
Thanks for the advice Ryan.
Managed 21 miles @7:39 today and felt very comfortable. Perhaps I won't push the intensity too much and I'll just stretch the distance out for another few miles. Looks like your longer runs are about 15% slower than mp which is about where I should be aiming.
Think I'd really struggle to go much further than 16 miles @mp for a training run on my own so relieved to hear you don't think I need to worry about going much longer!
Good miles in the bank Jools, hope you had similar glorious weather to the stuff we've got up here. I note you are Frankfurt bound again, surely can't be the meat dominated German menus that drag you back??
20.3m done this morning, furthest I've run for ages due to former leg problems. Actually felt better in the 2nd half than the first. The blue sky & light winds were a bonus - this had also enticed dozens of cyclists out on my usual country lane route so occasional evasive action was necessary mixed in with enormous farm vehicles.
65m for the week, my marathon is only 5 weeks away so I'm on a 'cram it in' schedule until then!
Good Sunday of 20+ milers RJ2, Jools and Wardi - definitely perfect running weather this morning in London.
Impressive month Matt, interesting to see more success from XT - while it may be one of the most boring things possible it does seem to work. Sounds like a good plan for the 20 miler, hope it went well.
RJ2 - 7:30s sounds ok, maybe a little quick if anything - for steady long runs I just go with whatever feels comfortable - try not to look at the pace unless making it more of a session but that's just personal preference. I found 10 steady + 10@MP worked pretty well last year though up to 5+15@MP doable - definitely a good session as long as you can recover reasonably quickly from it.
Good couple of days running this weekend, Surrey road relays yesterday and nice to find I haven't lost too much fitness - didn't have the top end speed but feeling reasonably strong. First ran 14:46 on the 2nd leg then after a few easy miles 15:22 to make up numbers for the club B team for a ~2.9 mile reasonably hilly course round Wimbledon park.
First proper marathon training long run today - 20 miles averaging 6:25s, pushing the pace a bit on a lap of Richmond park in the middle. Legs a bit tired in the last couple of miles and feel fairly battered after but a good end to an 80 mile week - now just need to try and keep this going for the next 6 (+ taper) weeks.
Couple of fast legs there Bufo. I've got the North west road relays next week and I'm not overly keen on trying to blast a fast leg out. Feel incredibly one paced at the minute.
Looking forward to PP and Padams exploits.
Bit of a cut and paste job here.
Golden Ball 20miler for me today and decided on 3 easy, 7@goal MP, 3 easy, then the last 7 @goal MP. I'd take a low 2.3X at Dublin but being very optimistic, training paces have been targeting 2.29 pace. Not really hit them yet apart from the treadmill on Wed but God loves a trier.
First mile in 5.55. whoops, I wish 5.55 was easy pace. 2nd in 6.09 and 3rd in 6.02. Easy pace ended up very steady, very quickly. I was 6th at this point in a group about 100m off the leader but ended up closing down on the leader when I started my MP section.
5 miles up and my guts go so had to dive off the cycle path onto the banking of the river Lune in broad daylight. Something that has plagued me quite a bit recently. It turns out I was exactly a minute and rejoined the race in 5th. Eventually ended up leading by 8/9 miles but knew my 3 easy miles were coming so toyed with doing a straight 14/15 miles then jog the last 2 as the competitive edge was creeping in but stuck to my plan.
Pretty much a dead turn at 13 miles and the 7 miles @MP to home which were never 5.42 pace but pretty much all 5.4x barring some sections where under tree cover my watch throws the minute mile pace up. Could certainly feel it at mile 19 and a 5.55 last mile shows I was finding it hard work.
Decent enough run and with not being experienced in the rigours of marathon training and having the experiences of it I'm wondering if 5.4x is too optimistic or will the 15.5 mile at 6.06 pace on Weds BAC session have had a big bearing on today, no taper and it was pretty warm with a day doing diy yesterday. etc. I can't think of anymore excuses!
Ended up running 1.59.12 and won a toaster, a bottle of prosecco and a mars bar.
bufo - Good to see you back, and a solid LR.
Matt - Hardly a textbook race there but well done, I think! Not sure I want to stick my neck out and say how it relates to target but you can't be too far away. Maybe try a mid-long MP effort during early-stage taper on slightly fresher legs?
Wissey Half Marathon for me today, incorporating the British Masters' champs. Low-key (300 entrants, village hall HQ, free ale at the finish!) - and the BM entries were scant so I anticipated being near the pointy end. Indeed, I took the lead within 400 metres or so and by the end of a slight downhill first mile (5:20) just had the lead bike for company, with any footsteps out of hearing range. A couple of quickish miles on the flat, but then the first undulation, mixed with some breeze, told me that Norfolk isn't completely flat, and maybe this wouldn't be the lightning fast course I was hoping for. Nevertheless, I was feeling strong and generally running either at PB pace on the subtle inclines or faster on the faster bits...
Passed 5 miles in 27:10, 10k in 33:3x, by which time I'd already decided that the lead bike man was a bit of a star. Describing the next undulation, giving the all-clear when I could cut across to the right hand side of narrow country lanes, cycling in the smoothest camber-free section of the road. Leading the race has its perks.
I only really started struggling at mile 8, which was mainly uphill at a gentle but constant gradient, where I clocked my slowest split, 5:43. But still running strong through 10 miles (54:3x), so fairly confident of a PB, and having glanced behind during a straight part of the course, also confident of staying clear if nothing awful happened. Another handful of undulations in the last mile or so had me digging in to maintain pace but I stayed pretty strong to the end and "broke the tape" for my second successive road race (when is that gonna happen again??) in a shiny new PB of 1:11:28, which it turns out beats a 14-year-old course record. Nice!
Other good stuff: Kent AC first male and female teams, MsP also winning, also in a course record (1:16:15!) Free ale at the finish!
Berlin predictor analysis: main target was to run a HM at least a minute quicker than the same time last year, in order to suggest running two minutes quicker for the marathon. I knocked off 1:09 from last year's time, in harder conditions, and 51 seconds off an older PB. I'm looking forward to Berlin more than ever.
All in all, very bloody happy.
CW - Good to catch up again!!