Sub 3

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  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Matt 3 .. storming result with an unwanted pit stop!  There is an expression on this thread about not wanting someone/something to dump in your toaster.  Now you've gone and won one!

    PP.. joyous news to see you breaking the tape, looks very good for Berlin.

    Fantastic LR Bufo, bodes very well indeed. 

    Forgot to mention RJ2's long run, nice effort fella.

     

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Storming run PP and looking in great shape! Congrats to Mrs P too.

    Very kind of you to just just fall shy of my PB there.image
  • Some nice long runs inc. Wardi, Jools and RJ2.

    bufo - haven't seen you for a while, but looks like you're still pretty quick!

    Matt3 - great run, well done for sticking to the plan. I wouldn't worry about being a few secs/mile off target for the 2nd MP section, a taper will sort that out.

    PP - awesome run, particularly running solo all the way. Halfway in about 74 at Berlin then?

    So the 12 hour race went pretty well on Saturday. In the end there was only 24 people doing the solo, but there were some teams around for company and as it was organised by my club, I knew most of the marshals etc. which was nice. The lap was marginally under 4M, but with a small detour to drinks/food, probably worked out as averaging 4M per lap anyway. Really nice loop mainly on good trails (one muddy bit) with a few undulations to break it up.

    Weather was pretty rubbish at the start, cold and drizzle, but it improved throughout the day. First lap was about 28 minutes and I was leading the solos but only by a few seconds. That guy passed me on the second lap (also about 29 mins) but he was still in sight and then we both briefly stopped at the end of that lap for nutrition and I came out ahead of him. I then pulled away a bit over the next few laps, running them in about 29 mins plus about a minute every other lap for food/drinks. This was much faster than I had planned, but it felt easy enough and I was already walking a couple of small hills each lap.

    Went through marathon distance in about 3:15 and felt OK, but was getting a bit dehydrated. Mrs Padams (marshalling) suggested drinking something other than water, so grabbed a bottle of energy drink for lap 8 and drank all of that during that lap. From then on I carried a water bottle throughout and was drinking nearly 500ml per lap, but felt much better.

    After lap 8 I stopped for a bit longer and ate a sandwich, then walked for about 5 mins while I ate it. After that lap I asked how far ahead I was, and found out the other guy had dropped out, so was nearly a lap ahead. Another couple of laps in 33-35 mins (walking all the uphills now) and I lapped 2nd place (a clubmate), so stayed with him for a while to have a chat.

    Nothing much to report for the next few laps - got a good rhythm going of walking the hills and running the flat/downhill and lapping in about 36 minutes plus a minute or two per lap to grab food. Knowing I was quite far ahead I was being quite conservative and felt like I could sustain that pace all the way to the end.

    Weirdly with about 4 hours to go it felt like we had nearly finished! I started planning how to approach the next few laps - had always planned to do 18 laps for some reason. At the end of lap 16 (about 8h50 gone), I lapped 2nd place again and we decided to do a lap together. That one was a lot slower (48 mins) and I decided to run the next one properly and then stop, partly as I was starting to get a sore shin, but also because no one could beat me at that point. So at the end of that lap I said goodbye to 2nd place and did the last lap with no walking in 33:43, which felt hard!

    So overall I did about 72M in 10:13 (average of 8:30 m/m ish). Won a nice Inov8 "race vest" (basically one of those running rucksacks with hydration) and a trophy. After a few slices of pizza and chocolate cake I went out to watch people still running and felt a bit better by the time the prize-giving happened.

    Legs are a bit sore now but not too bad, except for the shin which has a big lump and hurts to raise my toes. So I won't be running for a while, and going on hols for 11 days on Saturday anyway. At the time I was tempted to carry on to 20 laps (could have basically walked two more laps in the time available), but I think it was probably sensible not to.

  • TT, really, really hope you can get the foot sorted in time.

    PP, congratulations on another win and the PB. No wonder you're looking forward to Berlin!

    Padams, congratulations to you on the Ultra win, sounds like you need that holiday!

    RJ2, that was a good long run. Generally I try to run the longer runs progressively. I do the first half at target MP+20% and the second half at MP+10%. As far as MP runs themselves, I stick with P&D so the longest session I do is 14 MP miles. Nice to find an HM race on the right day for that one!

    Recovery week for me so nothing special to report. Nice 16M yesterday in the sun.

  • Padams - Taking off the last couple of hours of a race to eat chocolate cake and pizza cos you've already won: class!! Absolutely staggering effort, no doubt understating what you must've gone through at times. Hope the shin heals well, keep eating the chocolate cake and enjoy the hols.

    Re: Berlin pacing, I'm provisionally sticking with plan to metronome it at 2:29:00 pace, so 1:14:30 at halfway, especially as a club mate has the same target so would be good to work together without getting carried away.

    Legs feel pretty damn good today, all things considered. Hammies and glutes predictably the most stiff but really not too bad. Just a spin today, and easy runs planned for tomorrow/Wednesday before the club champs 5,000m on Thursday. Not sure how much mojo I'll have for that, but it's the last track race of the season so might as well give it a blast.

  • PP - working with your clubmate sounds like a good plan. If you're feeling easy at HW in 74:30 there's still plenty of scope to get under 2:28.

    Weirdly the worst part of the 12 hours was about 5 hours in - the sun came out so it was pretty warm, starting to get tired and not even halfway. Once I got past 6 hours I'd settled into the nice rhythm and just kept it ticking along. At no point did it feel out of control or that something could go badly wrong, which was a surprise to me. I think it's more of a mental game than a physical one beyond 4 or 5 hours (unless you have nutritional problems like Dan had).

  • TT -- really hope the foot calms down soon.

    piscator -- quite right to change cadence cautiously, it certainly took my legs a while to adjust going the other way. Glad to hear all's going well.

    bufo -- welcome back. Cripes, that's a Bob Graham's worth of mileage in one (long) weekend -- bet your quads felt it afterwards! And you're obviously in great shape with those relays and the fast 20M.

    Matt3 -- terrific training there... and then that 20M race too, well done on the prizes! (Not sure where you came in the end though.)

    LS21 -- if I'd run a 93M week, I'd be shuffling the parkrun at 9m/M+ with the dog-walkers at the back. Chapeau!

    Welcome Rob Jones 2. I've never done more than 10M @ MP in a training run, but being able to do so after 10M steady "warm-up" and still being good to continue afterwards for 5M without feeling too trashed is a great test of whether MP is achievable.

    Nice long runs Jools & Wardi.

    Congratulations Padams! A good one for the bucket list there. Hope the shin calms down, I had something similar after Abo one year when I couldn't lift the ball of my foot off the floor for a while.

    PP -- absolutely superb. Great to catch up with you and meet MsP -- you both proved you are pretty special yesterday.

    So yes, Wissey HM for me too. I said here than 76 min would be my best case, 77 or even 78 more likely... and I fear it was close to 78 (77:52 in fact). That's what Snowdonia-oriented hill training, and maybe 1 kg of post-holiday ballast, do for you; it was 2 mins slower than my Cambridge HM in March. I started behind MsP for a little while before realising that a) she was a lousy slipstream, being quite petite and b) was definitely faster than me. I thought I paced it OK, but tellingly the last couple of miles were slightly slow (maybe slightly uphill though, I'm not sure). I managed to slipstream a big guy into the wind so I've no excuse there either. But hey, I got a BMAF silver and EVAC gold medal for my trouble in the V45 category (TBH most of the trouble is registering for these things and turning up at a place that happened to be reasonably handy for home this year), which was nice. I did 1M w/u and 6M afterwards before prizes, so I scraped 20M for the day as marathon training too. All pretty satisfactory really, apart from actual speed.

  • TT - Healing thoughts and fingers crossed

    PP ,CW -  Well done at Wissey

    Padams - Excellent stuff. The foot/shin ailment you described is exactly what I've just been suffereing with. Rest is definitely the best option.

    After 2 weeks off some intense massage I'm back running as of Saturday, and todays lunchtime 4miles at 06:16 average felt incredible. HR was 172 which is a touch high but really encouraging. I'm going to alternate between Threshold/MP running and an hour on the Turbo for the next 2 weeks before attempting a "hard" Marigold 7 day taper.

    I have no idea what kind of shape I'm now in aerobically as I did 20 miles over the last 2 weeks. I know the scales don't lie though . 8lbs worse offimage

  • Stunning stuff PP and Padams (not to shabby from MsPP as well)

    CW - That's a decent list of medals.

    TT - Fingers crossed for a quick recovery.

    Welcome back Bufo.

    Jools - Nice solid marathon training week.

    Muss - Glad to read you are back running.

    Nice to see Wardi cracking out a long'un.

    Matt3 - That's a very good 20miler.

    Topped off a 100mile week with an undulating 23 miler at 6.30 pace.  I'm off to Bordeaux on Thursday for the Medoc marathon so against all wisdom I'm cramming the miles in.

     

     

  • Nice racing from PP (fab pb and podium image), MsPP (amazing progress continues!) and CW (multiple champ!).

    Padams: wow.  That's a heck of a lot of running.  I think 72 miles must need a lot of pizza to refuel adequately - it would almost tempt me to consider an ultra, but not quite.  Agree that being able to stop more than an hour early to eat because your lead is that big is pretty classy.

  • Lev_Lev_ ✭✭✭

    TT, as elsewhere, really hope you're on the mend. 

    PP, you are on fire!  Bring on Berlin.  Though the FB pictures of the shorts remind me of why I must remain motivated and ahead of you...image

    Bufo, a decent LR off the back of the speedy relay work.  It will come back quickly and there's plenty of time. Look forward to seeing how it goes.

    SL, good luck!  Can't wait to read the race report.  Make sure you enjoy the fine cheeses en route too.

    Padams, that is amazing. Far beyond anything I could do.

    Great haul, CW - and as ever wonderful to hear of the mix of running you're doing.

    Wardi, nice run!

    Jools, sounds like all is on track for another decent outing in your fave German city.

    Muss, great that you're back to things.  For what it's worth, you can definitely get through it by just doing the few hard runs and backing it up with XT - it's what I did in the Spring and it's what I'm doing now. 

    Matt3, a very good run and a staggering month's training (well over double my mileage!).  Looking forward to seeing how Dublin goes.

    Apologies to any I've missed.

    Well, the taper can't really come soon enough.  I think I'm getting a bit fatigued.  For work reasons, I had to switch up to do this week's longer run today.  On one hand no bad thing as it meant a fifth run of 20m - I'd been slightly twitchy at the lack of longer runs (though they've all been decent sessions with hard stuff in).  Nothing over 22, but we'll see what happens.  Was one session too many though and think I'd have been a lot better if I'd been able to wait till tomo as that makes 4 sessions over 7 days (nasty progressive LR last Tues, shorter sharpener last Thu, a great BAC-style "sandwich" session on Sat and then today).  Fair's fair though, as I've nailed a lot of the training runs and was certainly due a worse one. Sat was great - 18m incl c4.8 @ 527-9s, 4 x 5' @ c512-10s, 4.8 @ 527-9s, all off 90" jogs. Real confidence booster. Then it was supposed to be 2 easy days but had to move LR forward. Attempted a progression - 5 @ c630-40, 5 @ c610 all quite controlled, then 5 @ c527-9s, but was working really hard, much more like threshold/HM effort (bit windy, stomach issues) so decided to ditch it and not crack on for a final 2.5m hard and just jogged 5m home. Easy XT tomo then a much needed rest day on Wed.  Not massively distressed about it as still a decent longer run and the taper should sort me out fine - definitely ready for it!

    Might do Bristol half on Sunday as a MP run as most MP I've done has been just under 10m (albeit after 11.5m easy) but v keen not to overcook things.  Anyone else (Jools presumably?) doing that? 

  • Yes, I am doing Bristol, Lev.  If you have a number, check it is white so that you are in the right place in the start pen. I had yellow originally, which is right at the back of the first wave ... doh!  Humbled by the fact that even if you run it at MP you will have time to put the kettle on before I finishimage

  • I'm also at Bristol - have a white number and am racing all out (but will be happy if I get within 4 mins of Lev @ MP!)
  • Jools - Not done the Bristol HM before. Do I need to get to the start early or can I dive in last minute?
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Padams -the usual humble report to another top performance.



    Well done to the speedy PP's. Ms PP must be heading sub 2:45.



    Cw -dont be so hard on yourself with time expectations, the best you can be on the day is the aim regardless of build up.



    Life has got in the way too much in the last few days its all tailed off a bit lately.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Charlie/PP.. don't know how long you stayed at the prize giving at Wissey but my clubmate Will Allan apparently shuffled up to claim the V70 prize (1:35).  He ran 1:21 when he was 60 and wonders where the 14 minutes have gone  image

    Sorry to hear you're a bit overburdened TR, just do what you can do until life gets easier.

    Astonishing Padams, apart from the running stats I loved the nutrition detail! 

  • I'm also at Bristol - have a white number and am racing all out (but will be happy if I get within 4 mins of Lev @ MP!)
  • Ryan: you can probably get away with finishing your warm up about 15 minutes beforehand but I'd aim to get into the pen by then. Last year it was possible to do strides alongside the start pen so fingers crossed that is possible again this year!
  • Padams - excellent stuff. Well done!

    PP - as elsewhere.

    TR - I hope things settle down for you and that whatever is getting in the way is nothing major.

    Some great training going on, as per usual. Thanks for all the commiserations, good wishes, etc. As expected the GP didn't want to do the injection due to the risk of fat pad atrophy. However, it wasn't all bad. The swelling has gone down significantly (4-5 hours of icing, cumulatively, per day, since Friday, will do that I guess) and he has given me naproxen (nasty stuff, but effective) to reduce the rest of the inflammation and keep it under control..

    It is still bruised, but he has given me the ok to run on grass, in cushioned shoes, with it padded up, tomorrow and said I'm in no danger of doing permanent damage as everything seems to be back in the right place, so as long as I make sure it doesn't swell back up and don't mind the pain from the bruising I can get back to running.

    Long story short though, I have carded 9 days of complete zero in the last 14 (and 2 of the days I did run were just jogging, so only 3 days as planned in a fortnight), with nothing more than jogging for the next few days at least, at exactly the wrong time as I didn't have any wiggle room in my schedule anyway, so I have offered to keep PP company for as long as possible in Berlin (hopefully up to around 30km or so if I start being able to get some miles under my belt now again) and save my own target marathon until mid November (Valencia - entry, etc, all sorted - all in I managed to get flights, entry and accommodation for 3 nights for the grand total of £165 by making use of my recently built up air miles image ).

  • TT - sounds like good news and gives you a nice target for November.

    Lev - as you know, you're bound to be a bit tired from all those sessions. You've done some really nice training and 5:2x will probably seem easy on the day (for a while anyway!).

    I entered the Great Birmingham Run (club outing) last week and just discovered in theory I qualify for an "elite" place (just!), so will see if they let me on there.

    Shin is actually feeling a lot better but I don't feel any need/desire to go for a run for a few more days yet!

  • SL - Have you practised your fuelling strategy for the Medoc Marathon?  **hic!** Should be a hoot, have a good one.

    Lev - I don't think you've got much to be concerned about.  That BAC session in particular looks like a monster. I've got used to what target MP feels like during a hard session, coming off a faster pace, and it doesn't feel like MP!

    Padams - Talking of "elite" entries, I've added the Brighton HM to my list of possible races for the new year, since they're offering free entry for sub-72. But it might be a bit close to Bath, which will have me for being old without having to be so quick.

    ...*edit* scrap that, Brighton's the day after the National XC. So I'll be 200 miles away and hungover.

    TT - Thanks again in advance for helping out at Berlin. I'm admiring the no-nonsense plan B you've sorted out so quickly, to race another overseas marathon.  Good work.  image

  • A big congratulations to PhilPub for winning Wissey and in a course record. Best wishes for Berlin, I think a PB is on the way.



    I was there too acting as pacemaker for my daughter in her first HM, a sub 2 attempt. My son was also punting for a first attempt 1.50. With all my achilles problems I was surprised to make the start line but I made it through no problem. Anyway we came away with two failures 2.05 and 1.55. I now know how CRAB must have felt acting as pacemaker for me in some of my sub 3 attempts.



    It proved to be an eventful weekend in the end, a blowout on the A11 on the way up with a bill of ??158 for a new tyre, then finding the event was full when I thought we'd be able to enter on the day. My son then managed to lose the car key post race in the long grass at the finish area. Still we raised almost ??600 for Cancer Research which would have needed to be refunded if the kind race director hadn't allowed us to run.



    Dull
  • Wow! Hello Dull! Great to hear from you! Well done on both making the start line and getting around in one piece!

    Cheers Padams/PP.

    Test run was good, albeit a little unorthodox. With the gel padding under the metatarsals and a pair of cushioned trainers on it actually felt painless, so fingers crossed!

  • Welcome back, Dull.  Nice to hear from you and delighted that mini-me (aka Dull Junior) has been converted to running.  Travel sounds a bit to exciting, however...

    Good news, TT.  Hopefully you can get some jogging and cross-training done in the weeks before Berlin.  You may surprise yourself yet, although the back-up plan sounds like a good idea.

  • PP: awesome performance, looking very good for Berlin. If there was a his'n'hers category at races you and MsP would be cleaning up everything in it.

    Padams: as said already, winning with an hour to go is very classy.

    CW: after all the unusual training being a minute or so off can't be too bad. 

    Lots of other great training and racing, and great to see the thread founder Dull coming by.

    I did an intervals session today, in a 0.25/0.5/0.75/1/0.75/0.5/0.25 pyramid. Cadence did increase in the faster bits this time, without a conscious effort to do so, so maybe some of the more experimental running is kicking in. Nothing much else to report, just trying to keep steady training until the Oxford HM in a month and then see what that gives me.

  •  

    Thread line of the week image

    Matt3 wrote (see)

    Ended up running 1.59.12 and won a toaster, a bottle of prosecco and a mars bar.

    TT - nice shift of target there and the air miles are a nice bonus!

     

  • Agreed, ES.  It does make my medal, bottle of cider and Oreo Dairy Milk look pretty mundane. We're cheap in the West Country!

  • Some really impressive running out there guys and really enjoying reading about some spectacular efforts - particularly Matt3 and PP. I have no experience of winning a race but I've always thought it looks toughest taking the lead from the start and then holding on. I imagine your mind can play all sorts of tricks with you even if the legs are behaving themselves. 

    Sorry to hear about your injury TippTopp but sounds like a sensible approach. I actually work as a GP and do a lot of these injections. Complications aren't unheard of and you'd risk putting yourself out for much longer. Runners are the worst patients as they are a notoriously impatient bunch! Valencia sounds like a great target though so plenty to be positive about.

    After the advice here, took myself out for 16 miles with only 12 @m/p. Felt fairly brutal and was a surprisingly tough session on heavy legs. Going to plan some kind of progression session next week of 20 miles or so with the last 10-12 @mp before the taper.

    I'll also be doing Bristol half so might see some of you there!

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    sounds like you have a way forward then TT

    great to see that Dull is still active

    3 zero's in the last 4 days due to life getting in the way, I'd normally be disappointed if I had 3 zero's between New year and VLM, but my training has tailed off a bit in the last couple of months anyway. Hopefully I can get back to it a bit more from tomorrow and find a few targets to keep my out there.

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    That's the spirit TR!

    Good to see you popping in Dull, good try on the pacing.  I quite enjoyed pacing Mrs Wardi to a 10m PB earlier this year rather than beasting myself as normal.

    TT.. when I saw on FB at the weekend that you had managed to get your fatter foot into a trainer I figured things were improving!  Glad the test run went well, with all that padding under your foot you must have felt like Noddy Holder in his prime!  I was near Valencia on hols 2 years ago in the late autumn and it was still pleasantly warm in early November.

    Nice MP session RJ2 & good interval training Pisc.

    Took advantage of a dry evening with light winds to card 11.2m after work.

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