Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Manchester Marathon 2016
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
I'm another P&Der.... and like Bob, I'm sort of doing the up to 55 plan (ish) whist generally borrowing the long runs from the 55-70 plan. So I got my 18m with 10@MP done in nice dry conditions on a good flat trail on Saturday. Bob... I know what you mean about losing concentration for a minute... before you know it, your average lap time is starting to creep up! I guess it's a sign that this is NOT the relaxed race pace that we'd hope.
I always felt I could maintain the pace (which was 25s a mile faster than my declared target)... but I sure had to concentrate. And the thought of doing that pace for the full 26.2 miles...
Don't they say that you should go through half way feeling like you fully relaxed? I just can't see it. But maybe it's a sign I can hit my A target time (rather than this A* target pace that I did on Saturday). Happy running all. Get the thermals out.
NorthEnder - if you're training to a 55-70 hybrid P&D plan I'm guessing you're not a first time marathon runner? My point is, that idea of "you should go through half way feeling like you fully relaxed?" comes from plans for first-timers, initiates and 4hrs+? Maybe I'm wrong? However, I remember in Amsterdam this year, whilst running an out section seeing those on the back section (2:30-3hrs crew), red in the face and going for it - they weren't even half way at that stage, probably 8-9 miles in, they were not relaxed. If you're running for a sub4 or just to complete then yes, you should be going through half way relaxed because you gonna be out there for a lot more time - but if you're looking for a sub3 then you got to get a wriggle on right form the start!
Well done on that 18 inc 10 @ MP - tough session - in the bag.
Makes sense that orapidrun thanks. I'd not really call it a hybrid 55-70 plan. I'll be astounded and delighted if my total weekly mileage comes very close to the up-to-55 requirements... but I just felt ok to do the longer long runs from that higher plan - which will sort of make up for the inevitable shortfalls that will happen on the way through the programme.
I've done 5 marathons, and the last 4 have all been between 3:44 and 3:49... so I feel a bit becalmed. This time I'm really working towards an attempt at a huge jump to 3:29. But I'm getting distracted a bit by some runs that make me think that if absolutely everything went perfectly for the next 13 weeks, I could get close to 3:20 (London GFA for me - 7:38 pace). Really, I don't think I make that giant step in one go but I'm still wanting to give myself that outside chance at these relatively early stages. Like the run I did on Saturday had the 10 miles at 7:34 when maybe it would have been more sensible to train for 3:29 pace (which is likely to be the pace I end up desperately trying to achieve). Trouble is, my first two - perhaps three marathons were negative splits with strong finishes but I've had more of a battle in the closing 6 miles of the most recent 2... and I'm wondering if I'm getting overambitious.
Like Manchester last April, I was striving to go sub 3:40 but was a bit worried that I felt I was working too hard at half way and maybe that gave me a bit of a predisposition to slow a bit later in the race. So your comment could help me deal with that this time round. Just man up!
Anyway... good luck with your own P&D. Are you good at sticking to it?
NE-I reckon a sub 3:30 is definitely on the cards they way you are going at the moment. Excellent MP run the other day!
P&D plan finally up and running at 5 this morning with 8 miles including strides. New Headtorch given first outing-went well.
Feeling good at the moment... but I have to factor in the undoubted massive hit on my training that will be delivered by family/work commitments at some stage. It always happens somewhere sometime!
Well done Tom for kicking the plan off. Excellent signs that you have had no reaction following your injury.
NE - sounds like we have a similar dilemma of deciding just how far to push it, in training and on the day. I would be very happy with sub 3:45 but am probably capable of closer to 3:40. Then, prompted by a better than expected 10k result, I find myself attempting and hitting MP paces that would give me 3:38. It is such a fine line between nailing it and blowing up completely on the day that I usually tend to err on the side of caution and like yourself have had two negative splits. I do find that approach a lot easier psychologically. I think I would find it a huge mental challenge to reach halfway feeling quite spent knowing I've got to maintain it for another 13+ miles.
You are spot on about 'manning up'! However, at the moment I too am considering settling for my A pace 8:25 and leaving the A* 8:19. 6 seconds doesnt sound a lot but when its right on the cusp of your limits it is huge (mentally as well as physically). Having said that I might change my mind by the time of the next MP run!
I feel like I am stuttering a little at the moment, but the plan is now going to take off. I am running 4 times a week if possible now with two cross training sessions (swim and or gym). So only 1 days rest.
The weather is very annoying but better to run now than in 25 degrees sun like the summer months.
Tonight i have a hills session and i think my long run will probably extend to 26 or 28km (16.25m to 17.5m), NOT looking forward it this week in the cold and wet. I will be simply getting round at this distance at this stage, so i dont expect miracles, probably have a few walks every 5km for a 100m or something.
Still working on a sub 4.30 but 4.40 I think is still my true time, but still alot of training to go.
Stay injury free peeps.
Yes we'll be complaining in the summer.
Not sure I'll be complaining in the Summer
NE - it sounds like we're in the same boat, my pb is 3:45:00 in Autumn 2015 - taking 13mins off Paris in the spring of 2015 - the big difference being I joined a club. Going for 3:29:59 in Manchester, hey if it's going well at the half way point, crack on, you're expected to fade at 18-21m - don't do it - put a semi stride in and resettle into target pace but with a slightly different feel to it - all will be well.
Crack 3:30 in Manchester and target GFA on the next one or two marathons, chip away with achievable targets.
What's a semi-stride?!
Anyway... looking back at records of last year's training reminded me that, whilst I'm feeling that my training is going really well, it also went really well last year too. I think I'm about 25s per mile quicker.. but that's only going to find me 10 or 11 minutes over a marathon .. which would leave me on around 3:33. So realistically, I'm going to have to work hard to achieve that 3:29
Sounds like it's going ok for you too JJ8.
Wrap up everyone.
Was chilly out there first thing this morning....brrrr....2 pairs of gloves on for my 11 mile MLR.
Not quite sure what a semi-stride is either. Enlighten us Orapidrun...
NE-You desreve and will achieve that Sub 3:30-Just keep the faith!
What time did you head out at Tom to get an 11 miler in that early?
I did a gently 5k at 06:15. It felt colder when I left for work at half 7!
I was out the door at 5 Rob-best time of day for me to get the miles in plus I am more of a morning person and don't really enjoy running in the evenings.
Roads are lovely and quite first thing and I have got a new Head-torch which I am now enjoying using.
I agree, it did feel colder when I left for work at 7:15.
I get a semi-strider every morning..............oh wait a minute.....sorry wrong forum.
Ha, JJ8 very good. A semi-stride, made it up on the spot, I'll try and explain what it means. You know that point in a marathon, you've been chugging along at MP and then over a mile or so it starts to get more difficult to stay on pace and you don't know why, then you notice that your pace is dropping....why is this happening, panic, shouldn't be getting tired yet, etc
A semi-stride, is a burst of increased pace for about 50-100m which reactivates you, gives you a kick up the a*se, and helps regain a bit of focus. So after 50-100m burst, breathing goes up and then you settle back down (and slow down) to MP, it feels comfortable again and on you go.
Is that any clearer?
Just back from a general aerobic 9 miler, felt pretty good and about 10s off MP, do need a rest day or two now though after last night's speedwork too.
Good to see you're back out there Tom13 - agreed, early morning runs are the best especially if it's frosty.
After 8,5km hills last night I am out again tonight, not sure doing what yet, but I am actually looking forward to it.
Thanks for clearing that up Orapidrun-nice little strategy to bear in mind. Will think about it during next LSR and see if it helps maintain the pace.
I like the sound of that Orapidrun. Will definitely store it and use when necessary. Have you ever used it in a marathon?
Going to give the treadmill a try tonight, Achilles tendinitis a distant memory now, just the bruised ribs have started to feel less tender over last few days. If I can't run then great, if not then the bike will do.
Going to struggle to get up to speed for the 12 week P&D program but will give it a good go.
Tom13, good to hear your back running, been about 5 1/2 weeks off for me now although I did get a couple of runs in before my accident. Been doing loads of stretching every day so hopefully this will help prevent any other injuries.
My next post will hopefully be reporting a run of some sort, want to give my smoking free lungs a good work out
JJ I've confirmed the Hilton at Manchester airport, phoned then up and they said less than 5 mins walk to train/ metrolink station. Think you told me tram to Trafford bar and then 10 min walk from there. It's a direct tram so should be pretty straightforward.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the explanation of a semi-stride orapidrun. It definitely sounds like a good psychological technique... perhaps physiological too. I've an 8 mile race and a half marathon. I might try out the semi-stride, although it's probably a bit different in a full marathon.
If we're both seeking 3:29, we'll probably be on the same piece of road. I'll look out for someone surging past me at the 19 mile mark!
Great - let's all package it up, brand and sell the "semi-stride" as a philosophy - be millionaires by Christmas! Maybe not...
It's not really necessary in a half marathon or less because there's not a fatigue issue at play. However, I have done this in marathons as a good pick me up. It's uncomfortable to do (therefore 50-100m max) but it does serve a purpose and helps give a little adrenaline kick when needed. You do it in training with P&D - it's the same principle but perhaps not as fast e.g. if 8 m/m is MP - a burst of 7:30-7:45m/m for 50/100m isn't going to be overburdening but will help you re-settle back into 8m/m. The likelihood is that this is needed around 18-20m so it'll sort you out for the next two or three miles, do it again for 25/50m around 23m and by then you'll be thinking about other things.....like the finish, which should be motivation enough.
How's it all going? I had a clear day off yesterday, doing a recovery 3m today and then 12m on Saturday night or Sunday morning, cut back week, getting some early nights and properly resting up before two weeks of 50m+... have done 55m in a week once before, it could be difficult and mostly done at night due to work and family commitments, we'll see.
Did my first LT run of the plan this morning. 10 miles with 4 @LT pace. 4 LT miles came out at 5:48, 5:48, 5:42 and 5:47 so pleased to see that I haven't lost to much fitness since the injury layoff. Going to try a 15-17 miler on Sunday to see how the endurance side of things are.
Happy running everyone. Wrap up warm out there!
Wow fast miles, Tom.
I did some interval training yesterday. Short, hard work! 6 miles tonight and 14 tomorrow! Doing the end of C2C with a friend... So glad I don't have to do the whole thing.
Happy running, all.
Hey everyone! I've not posted for a while (partly due to my groing strain and partly due to being buried in Fallout 4 on my new PC) but I've been doing yoga every day since the last week in December and I'm getting more and more mobility back. I'm not completely niggle-free but I can walk normally now so I thought I would have a little test run this morning. The aim was to walk a bit, run a mile, then walk a bit more. I ended up running two miles. I was definitely tight in a few places but it felt OK and was not actually all that slow (10:15 for the first mile and 9:57 for the second). I couldn't even walk without discomfort and limping for several weeks so this is huge progress.
I have a half marathon in five weeks so I need to build back up whilst avoiding the temptation to do too much too quickly. I had to DNS in a 10K and a 10 miler due to the injury so I'm rather keen to get it done but will have to see how it goes. I couldn't even walk properly for quite a while, so this is huge progress.
I managed 17 miles earlier which is my first long run in many a week. Last couple of miles were quite tough but glad I got it done and first week of plan has gone well all things considered.
Thats good to hear Tom. Recovery week this week on P&D so a 15 mile MLR which, after 18 miles the previous two weeks, seemed very comfortable. Still back to reality this week with a LT (10 with 5 LT) on Tuesday and 21 miles next Sunday.