The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    It says he collapsed at mile 23 just before 1.30 so he was probably running with those who finished around 4 hours.



    It seems someone dies doing it most years of late. I recall someone died in 2014 who finished about same time as me.
  • Glad to see you perk up WJH and with your plans for future races and plansimage well done on weight loss Abingdon is so popular and might suit you better with summer training.

    It was very sad to  hear about the army captain that died he was very fit by all accounts but they seems to always be one death .

    Good luck with all future goals and plans image

    Marathons are so strange I have run 5 and every one has been a cock up  some distances are not destined for you as in my caseimage

    I am out of action by a stupid large blister on little toe that is infected so on cream and the only comfort I get is in my slippers or socks but hoping by Thursday it will be better enough for me to be back on the road.

    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Alehouse - Next in a marathon in Latvia in a couple of weeks, followed by Kent Roadrunner marathon 2 weeks after that. We stayed about 20 miles outside Valencia up near where the race was, a bit in the middle of nowhere, so can't really advise on accommodation. It us very cheap to hire cars to get around but avoid Dickmanns!

     

    DT - She just didn't fancy it after we had both been coughing up gunk all week. Having won a 50k and a marathon in the last 4 weeks she had nothing to prove. But, of course, in the end it turned out pretty well which shows again that how you're feeling on the start line can be quite misleading.

  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Is that Riga by any chance PRF? My brother and two of his club mates are going out there to do the half although my brother may have to take it easy having been injured since the turn of the year - either that or he will go there supporting.

    Not good with the blister issues WP. Yes indeed, Sunday hasn't put me off at all...it's the first time I've ever put my eggs in one basket as to speak in targeting one particular race for one reason or another but at least I can now build upon recent gains moving forward.

    Legs feel fairly decent today with quads the worst going down stairs although in saying that can do so without any real discomfort...had to run for the train first thing and didn't feel the knee at all...but do suspect I would feel it after a couple of miles into a run at the moment...one of those where it's hard to tell when it will start from previous experience with it! Will stick to the plan of taking the large part of this week off before attempting a nice leisurely run when in Wales visiting family next weekend.

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    PRF - sorry to pop up out of nowhere but I think you were behind me at some point on Sunday around the 1-2 mile mark. You were running with someone else who asked about HO and you said she didn't feel up for it so hadn't started. He used her first name and it rang a bell. 

    I was trying to recall your name (forum or real world) in order to say hello without looking like a nut job. The only thing I could remember was runningonaraisin but by the time I'd managed to dig that out of the grey matter I'd lost you image

    I remember speaking with you a few times last Oct on the 2015 York marathon thread and was looking forward to following the mohawk to my first sub 3 as you'd kindly recommended. However, a foot injury the week before meant that I never even got to travel. 

    Well done on an excellent negative split and well done to HO too! Are you doing York again this year? 

  • DT: Great report and so pleased you PB'd

     

    WJH: I am sure visiting family and running in God's country will be good for youimageI am sure you will reap the rewards  of your training over the summer.

    Blister infection is starting to clear up so will try a run on it tomorrow.At the moment have infection in my mouth again which means the wisdom tooth will have to come out ! I look like a hamster with swollen face on the tooth side...There is always something!!

    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • WJH - Yes, indeed it is Riga. I don't know much about it yet, that's the next task....

    Malcs - Brilliant, what a small world. The chap in question was a friend who had told nobody at all that he was running so I was somewhat surprised to see him there. He had not run at London before so we were running through a few of the things to eatch out for on the course He coped with it all reasonably well as he went on to clock 2:49:09.

    The irony is that when he came up alongside I said 'what are you doing here?'. Then, a few miles up the road he bumped into HO and uttered the very same words after being told by me earlier that she definitely wasn't running!

    Bad luck with York, as for this year it may or may not be on the agenda but definitely not entered yet.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    PRF - I think it was a plot by HO to lull you into a false sense of security ... and then sneak to the line firstimage. Latvia will be interesting.

    Bad luck on the blister WP - glad it's improving. Hope the face deflates soon.

    Good to hear your legs are returning WJH. Take your time before doing anything too strenuous

    7.6 miles for me, including 6 x 1000m, averaging at a little under 4 min, with 400m recoveries. That's the penultimate speed session before the Leeds HM.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Nice report DTimage

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    PRF - lol image Your mate did brilliantly! It is quite amazing that with such a large field and people on different starts that you can run into someone you know. 

    A guy I do parkrun with pulled up alongside me just after Greenwich. He started on green and I was on red, what are the chances?! image

    I'm sure our paths will cross again, if not in York then somewhere else. I'll get my brain into gear a bit quicker next time! Best of luck with your forthcoming races.

  • Dr Dan - You could well be right about the sneaky ploy. You'll go well at Leeds HM based on your VOY performance and, as you know, it is a course which rewards sensible pacing with all the tough stuff being in the first half. Talking of Leeds HM, I currently have the shiney winner's trophy in the my car and have the task of depositing it behind a bin this morning. Seems a bit wrong somehow! Can you imagine if a little dog discovers it, it could be a re-run if the 1966 World Cup trophy saga all over again image

    Malcs - You're right. At various points on the course I managed to have brief chats with 6 different friends, although mainly in the second half when it has thinned out a bit.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image Yes indeed... Leeds HM is all about pacing that first 7 miles. However, if you can drop the winner's trophy at my bin, that would save me a lot of pain on 8th May.image

    Just bike commuting and, perhaps, a swim today.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sounds like the race I am planning to run on 15 May - a 10 mile race that is uphill for the first 4.5 miles and then largely downhill or flat thereafter.

    5 miles last night which comprised a 2 mile warm up, 3(5min tempo 1min rest) then a warm down. Tempo sections came in nicely around the planned paces and felt pretty relaxed and loose. 5 easy miles planned tonight.

  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    25 mile ride with 10 in the middle flat out. Followed by 6.5 steady hilly run at 7:3x's, legs were knackered at the start of the run, properly dead after. was going to try parkrun Saturday but not going to push my luck, rest and deload now until next Saturdays race. (Eek)

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I've nothing interesting to report. I did a 3.9 mile run tonight. Last mile my hamstrings tightened right up so I was glad it was a short one.



    I forgot in the mix if all the marathon stuff to say well done to Myox on his sub 19 parkrun. That's my next target.



    Pleased to see today that London have left gfa times as they are. Surprising given some gfa runners got moved to a different start as there were too many gfa runners. Plus the times for London are much softer than elsewhere.



    I'm just enjoying a week of eating crap and lying on the sofa.
  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    Not sure what to think about the GFA times staying as is. I agree they're soft but personally I'm happy to have 3:05 as the target still for now!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes, I'm happy to have them soft, though I have a 7 minute comfort now I'm 40. Even if they dropped it, it would only be 5 minutes id guess.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    imageIf I could convert my shorter times to marathon distance, I'd have a good chance at GFA (especially as it's moving to 3:20 for me once I turn 50 in June). However, that's a big "if" which I've never managed to make any in-roads into.

    Great brick session iower.

    Today's planned tempo sesh has been cancelled as a rare opportunity to parkrun has popped up tomorrowimage.

  • Morning

    DT: You deserve to just have a relaxing week.

    Iower: Nice training

    Andrew: Not long to go for your race and great training

    Dr Dan: Hope the swim and commuting went well for you? Did you find the trophyimage

    WJH: I hope all is going well with recovery

    Second morning run 4 miles yesterday and 4 miles today toe will sore and weepy but at least i could run will stick to this and hoping to start afresh next week!

    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Hi all.

    Great race report DT. Stuck to your guns on what you have been saying even from meeting you in Cardiff and good to see it paying off. As for the GFA times I'm surprised they haven't been reduced if that's the case. 

    Good to have a target iower. Admittedly not a lot of time to reach it this year though. I guess it depends on what your level is and what you will plateau at before pushing on/mixing it up if needed. I'd love to hit that target but know I have to lose more weight (positive results recently) and run higher mileage more often. I need to work out what my average mileage was in the run up to London but know many others do much more in reaching that. 

    Dr Dan - with the training you have put in recently I'm sure you will convert to a decent marathon eventually! Nice 1,000 m reps and good luck at Parkrun...sub 20 perhaps? 

    All OK here WP! Have not long got back from my first run post VLM - 10 enjoyable miles and had no issues with the knee. Strange! Legs overall were pretty much back to normal by Wednesday with just a few aches walking down stairs mostly on the Tuesday. Hope the toe is better soon and you can kick on with your training. 

    Still not not entered any races and will decide on club membership renewal this weekend. What with childcare fees soon starting and £70 for the club renewal, I'm not really convinced of the benefits at the moment at least as I won't make it back in race fees and potentially moving over the coming months which is the biggest factor. But will hopefully sort that and let the wallet take a further hit with some races entered by the end of the Bank Holiday. 

    Might post my VLM report tonight but be warned, it's long. 

  • WJH: We will look forward to your race report you earned to post a long one.Great news on knee and no issues but strange.

    It sounds to me that it is not worth renewing club membership as you are moving soon and it sounds a heck of a lot of money is it a tri club or a running club? here the most any club charges is £45.

    I am actually having a similar debate over my old club not gone back as not fast enough,I can't do speed work,hill work and beach session all of which they do for the oldies .So do I join just for reduced race fees and as I just race around 8 times in a year if all goes to plan and it cost £35 plus £10 for Welsh Athletics they do also give you £10 off Cardiff half and as everyone knows I am a little unlucky racing there or even getting to start line.I did contact them and was told on my race times at the moment I am too slow for the training group....they sure know how to make me feel wanted... so for me I will continue as I am.

    6 miles this morning under an hour for this route is greatimage  I can see the improvements from my training.

    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Quick one while on phone ... 20:07 today and I really went to the well! Gut-wrenching last 1K ... wanted sub 20 but not this time.
  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭
    Good going Dr Dan, not far off at all to the sub 20. image



    Managed my first sub 20 in over a year with 19:56 this morning...I'll take that but still confused about the knee. A weakness rather than injury per say perhaps? Poorly paced this morning too and with 10 yesterday am sure I'll take that down a bit over the coming weeks.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Excellent work, Wjh and Dr Dan. Next time, Dr Dan for sure.



    I would have fancied either of those runs so far, Wjh. Whilst the doms may have gone, there's still the latent damage and wear a Mara will cause. I've done a slow 4 and 5 so far. Planning 8 tomorrow.



    Id say your knee must have just been a weakness or imbalance. Nothing like a Mara to expose that.



    Well done on the training run progress, WP.



    I only join my club as it gives me the opportunity for xc and events like welsh castles. Though I do probably make at least ??20 back in race fee reduction.



    It was interesting to see Birmingham are having a marathon from 2017. I was thinking of how best to post a sub 3 and look at people who run spring, autumn, spring maras. They have really good conversion rates. Therefore, I wonder if the accumulated endurance of London, Birmingham, London, off the back of London this year, would benefit me.
  • Dan: well done on your PB so close to sub 20 I know a few boys who want the same got a faster team mate to pace them around I understand they did it but were slightly green with the effort.Good luck for next timeimage

    WJH: Great work and I am sure more to come from youimage

     

    DT:I ran the Welsh Castles once it was fantastic event worth the club fee just on that raceimage

    What about Abingdon as an autumn marathon?

    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes it's definitely a good event. If I do that and half the xc fixtures and save race entry fee I've made my fee back.



    I'm not up for it this Autumn as I've got other things in my head. I could sell Birmingham as a bonus one to my wife, just because there is none of the messing about as I going to London.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Well done WJH!image

    Not a pb WP ... still have another 31 seconds to find for that. But fastest for 2 years, so all good. I have a flatter and less congested 5K on 18th May which hopefully will provide a sub-20 and perhaps a PB attempt.

    Yesterday's 20:07 parkrun ... modest pace improvement but note how I managed to get into the higher HRs this time (my max is probably 171 bpm) which I have struggled to access this year.

    "average/max" bpm

    1, 3:54, 147/156 bmp
    2, 4:01, 159/162
    3, 4;05, 160/163
    4, 3:59, 160/163
    5, 4:07, 164/166

    compared with 20:23 on 26th March...

    1, 3:52,  less than 154 bpm
    2, 4:10, 151/162
    3, 4:05, 152/157
    4, 4:04, 152/156
    5, 4:12, 154/158

  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭
    VLM 2016    So here is my report from last Sunday. Apologies for its length, it's not often I do one of these but with it being London makes that a bit different. I'd trained more for this compared to the previous 5 (3) marathon I've ran and found my fitness picking up in the weeks before so was quietly confident of posting a decent time which would potentially challenge my now defunct PB (3:14:49). I'd decided to run at a pace ranging from 7:10 to 7:25 based on my last month of training and to see what happened after 21/22 miles. My strategy was also based on taking a gel every 3 miles onward from the sixth mile as am lucky not to have any ill effects like many do.    I was on my legs more than I liked on Saturday and didn't eat at the times I wanted. However, this had a negligible or more likely no impact on the day....although was paranoid that it would along with the higher heart rate the overnight along with little sleep. All pretty normal things for many the night before a marathon. I woke up with my heart rate still remaining higher than normal at roughly 55 beats per min rather than the 42-44 I'd recorded in the previous few weeks. Last minute taper madness had set in last minute paranoia.   I had some porridge, chocolate bagel and Lucozade sport and set off just after 8 from Glouester Road. All seemed pretty simple, just follow the masses via Southwick and I'll get there. All fine until I realised I'd be heading to Maize Hill rather than Blackheath having followed the red starters to the wrong platform so ended up getting another train to Blackheath via Lewisham. There were only a few others on this train which was a little concerning but chatted to one lady who was running who was confident that we would get to Blackheath just after 9am. I was mightily impressed at how she had trained for her first marathon while having a six month old combined with feeding etc which in my eyes is a great achievement just to make the start line. All seemed good until the train stopped at a signal for 10 minutes....it may have been less but could have been an eternity! Just as the other runners were panicking we set off again, arriving at Blackheath at roughly 9:15. For me that was plenty of time....wished the lady good luck along with a couple of others from the same carriage and headed to the blue start area.    Whilst in the blue start, I somehow saw DT amongst the thousands who was instantly recognisable in his club top and despite my pi** poor eyesight. Had a quick chat, remember him commenting on the number of gels I had on my new gel belt and briefly discussed targets....and fair play, DT had a sensible 7 minute mile plan and stuck to it despite the sub 3 temptation! Conscious of any pre race routines and to dos we both went our separate ways....was nice to be in the pen with plenty of room and time 20 minutes to the start. 
  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Had a chat to a couple whilst waiting, one of which was aiming for my target of sub 3:15. Before we knew it we were off! First mile felt fine in 7:30 despite a little bit of weaving albeit not that much. It was a little better with 7:17 over mile 2. I don't wear a heart rate monitor but felt I'd dialled into the correct pace based on the previous two marathons. The faster mile 3 split is most people's favourite gradual downhill decent but not so much mine....ok the pace picked up to 7:11 but countless footsteps proceeded to edge past on the downhill through Woolwich...I really don't do downhill!    

    A slight doubt of my pacing set in when the 5th and 6th miles slipped to 7:24 and then 7:26. However, I felt fine and arguably better at this stage compared to the Manchester attempts. The equivalent perceived effort saw pace pace drop to 7:10 by mile 7. So far so good then with my intended mile splits. Miles 8, 9 and 10 were 7:15, 7:20 and 7:15. I was confident at this stage that a good time relative to my improved recent fitness was on. I was also starting to enjoy it and started taking in the crowds and atmosphere a bit more. The miles continued to tick by at a fairly decent pace, 11 arrived in 7:13, 12 in 7:15 and 13 in 7:09 (on the GPS rather than mile points)....I was a little apprehensive of anything going under 7:10 but was still running things by feel and not forcing the pace by any means. The 14th mile came in at 7:14 with the 15th at 7:10 despite thinking my effort had dropped in the first stages of Canary Wharf. This again was very encouraging but obviously didn't want to go faster.    

    I still felt pretty good going through Canary Wharf but remember thinking the atmosphere wasn't as intense as I'd remembered from 2010 (running more within the even larger masses then however) but really felt like I was going in a good rhythm. Mentally I recalled going through the 16 mile marker (7:12 for that mile beforehand on the GPS) and mentally felt like the last 10 were manageable with a possible slight drop off in pace late on much akin to Manchester last year but certainly not below 8 minutes. Looking at things now my pace for mile 17 was 7:08. Could this be a factor with my knee later on??? I past a well known local runner who had cramp and this was arguably my strongest part of the race in terms of how I was feeling. Mile 18 was a little slower at 7:19 and had slight paranoia of a drop off but 19 miles passed by in 7:16 pace.   

    At this point, my head was telling me there was just 7.XX miles left and mentally felt better compared to any previous marathon. However, my race was about to slowly unravel and diminish in the most frustrating way and with plenty of irony and déjà vu thrown in. Ironic in that it would mean I still haven't ran a respectable full marathon time in line with my shorter times and déjà vu as my race deteriorated at the same stage at VLM in 2010 (although quite a bit worse back then). Many would point to mile 20 (the GPS reading was now some way behind the 20 mile point) showing 6:45 as the reason for this decline but my signal obviously threw a wobbly! The GPS map route would confirm this as it seems to pass through a number of buildings!    

    Whilst running at the turning point along Aspen Way (?) I started to feel my right knee. I admittedly had this 'feeling' near the end of Manchester last year but this time it felt more ominous....within a minute or two I felt myself overcompensating on my left leg and briefly thought I could get through the remaining miles in this way but a declining but not dramatically slower pace....in fact mile 21 on the GPS came out at 7:35 so not that bad despite my compromised running form and this continued with the next split showing 8:07.

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