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LB- with an 83 half you should be sub 3 or very close especially after 11 mara's as you are not a beginner either, was that a recent half time ? You certainly need to change something in your training ,are you dying a death after say 20m or what is the issue them maybe some of the fasties can point you in the right direction ? You may just need more miles,ever tried doubles ? or more longer midweek runs to back up the long runs.
PMJ- sub 18 by summers end at the very least then
April stat's :
154 miles ,low due to niggle after niggle
with a mighty 475m for the year so far ! Was planning a half in 2 weeks time but sacked the idea as I won;'t be in any shape 
11m this morn was able to pick up the pace in the middle with a few 7:30's .
I'm in Keswick
Snap OO! I ran 18:58 in a Parkrun today too!
That’s the first time I’ve gone under 19 minutes this year, so well pleased. Of course I’ve done it in true ‘Madbark’ style as I’m running the Belfast Marathon on Monday.
A word of caution about the FIRST plan. I followed it exactly on my second marathon and fell apart after 20 miles. I was on course for sub 3:30 but only managed 3:48 and spent 10 minutes in the St. Johns ambulance tent at the end. FIRST is for runners who don’t really want to run. Put the miles in if you want to achieve your best possible marathon time.
https://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/why-run-less-run-faster-doesnt-work/
I think the paces look a bit racy - if I followed the detail in the plan of a session a week at 45s faster than 10k pace I'd be at 5:30 miling for reps which is fine for short bursts but they build to 3 x 1mile - I think that'd break me. There may be more subtleties in the book versions of the plan but at first glance this seems a bit too much for me.
2hr bike then 3k swim last night
5hr bike this morning - 85miles and 5000ft of climbing
Bike and long run in the schedule for tomorrow morning
Enforced resting for me, after Brighton my knee was a bit sore and then a parkrun last Saturday and a club run on Sunday finished it off and the pain made me accept defeat. Tried a club run again on Wednesday night which also ended in lots of pain, so am now resting it. Not running is doing my noggin in tho, have a 10k at lymington in 8 days so hoping things have recovered by then. But thats not going to be a fast one, due to lack of training. Only managed around 20k in the last fortnight!!
Yep, I will have to make sure my sensible head is on and if knee is not recovered, sit out the 10k. Will be tough tho, I am already getting antsy from not running, but I can just go and cheer the wife on instead
I think I'm just more suited to shorter distances, but I love the challenge of a marathon! Sub 3 would be fantastic, but I can't see it happening, but I'd also be very pleased with a sub 3:10
I can only really train 5 times a week, so this does limit my mileage, though I do tend to peak in the low 60's which I guess is still reasonably high
Any suggestions would be appreciated
Nice to see how everyone is recovering and welcome to newbies.
Injury is gradually resolving: I still occasionally feel a twinge, but managed 7M with 12 x strides today with no ill effects. Should be able to toe the line for the 3000m at the Midland League next week!
I see a few have been spanking it around parkrun only a week after London
, great recovery. I had a little jog on Friday my my calfs said no after a couple of miles so quit before any more damage was done.
I've been out on the bike for most of the week with a nice long one of 93 miles this morning. I seem to be able to keep the speed at an average of 19.4mph on tired legs, so pleased with that. Plus I've put in a couple of sessions in the pool with a 400m & 200m speed test with my club on Friday morning, which I could have done without.
LB70, looks like you've got great leg speed over 5k but drops off a bit when the distance increases, I personally would increase the mileage with lots of slow miles on the long run and medium long runs, say mp+90 max and really try and control that heart rate creep as I think this does help to improve your endurance. I also think long tempo/lactic threshold/ hmp runs are great for improving strength every other week. Plus I wouldn't go too mad with interval sessions at the moment because you have the legs speed, I think strides are good enough, just leave them (rep) to nearer your event to sharpen up.
But I think the bottom line is more miles and more training, I really do improve when I up my training to 7 days a week in specific phases. This does mean a lot of early morning training 5.30-6 am starts.
LB70 - Get this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Peter-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600 Read it all and adapt a training plan to fit your life.
Some nice parkrunning folks. I decided to show up to my local one too and was very cautious as my groin, glute and core are still not right. Went off really slow and picked it up after a 6:35 1st mile to finish in 20:12 and managed to pass about 10 runners in the last two miles. The pace felt very comfortable and not too sore afterwards which is encouraging. 3.18 miles on the Garmin so average pace of 6:21mm. Almost a minute down on my fastest one but I'll take that for now.
Jools - Good news and same here, twinge is exactly how it feels for me too, so hopefully on the mend.
Good luck to Gul and anyone else racing tomorrow, oh and of course Madbark for Monday.
LB70 - The app is good & you'll notice that the rep speeds vary according to the length; so super fast for 200/400s, but more reasonable for 1600/2000s. Your idea of increasing the warm ups and doing 2x60 min easy runs may work, but they would need to be really easy. There used to be a good FIRST thread with some posters getting well under 3 hours on the plan, but others having similar experiences to BB.
Since I crippled my hip I've read P&D Advanced Marathoning (as BB recommends) and I'm currently using the more recent 'Faster Road Racing' by Pfitzinger & Latter. Both these books extoll the benefits of controlled aerobic base running, prior to adding any speed sessions.
Good news Jools.
Nice sub-19 running from OO and Badbark. Glad to hear you had a sensible ad successful parkrun as well GM.
I'm currently mulling over what plan for follow for Abingdon - I'm not 100% convinced about the benefits to me of a (relatively) high mileage plan having tried to follow the 55-70 mile P&D plan but I'm pretty certain that I'm going to go for a shorter (i.e. the 12 week plan) rather than the 18 week one this time around as I've often found I've run out of speed (metaphorically, rather than literally) with a plan lasting 4 months.
That said, I've just got to focus on plenty of slow miles over the next 6 weeks in preparation for the 100K. Badbark - any thoughts on the ideal way to prepare for this? Please don't say I've got to run a sub-3 marathon every fortnight!!!
Back into double-digit running this morning with a 10 mile run to Reigate parkrun followed by an acceptable 21 min run on an rolling course, just one minute slower than the time when I finished in first place.
Finished with 158 miles for April, taking me to just over 900 for the year so far.
Nice post-mara running and very impressed by the speed shown by some; good luck to those racing. I'm taking it easy for a bit in light of the WP smackdown.
I have run the Kielder mara route, not in the big Steve Cram-backed event but in an NEMC members race. It was so small and low key that the prize for 2nd place was a bag of Mini Cheddars - not even a stand-alone bag, but one of the tiny ones from a multipack which say "not to be sold separately". Kielder is a glorious, remote place of trees, water and big skies; and just getting there is an adventure. But the course round the lake is essentially a gravel MTB switchback and absolutely not a place to run a fast mara.
I've also done lots of maras on 3 runs/wk, although not closely following FURST. IMO FURST looks very attractive on paper, but the paces & XT are actually very demanding and would mean injury risk to some. Plus, if you do all the prescribed XT you don't save any time.
Lorenzo: you are easily fit enough to do 100k, but probably lack time on the feet. What was the longest run or run/walk you did for Comrades? Personally I would recover from London, then maybe in 3wks time do a 4-5.5 hour run/jog, ideally off road & undulating, not worrying about the distance. Good way to get the head round time again. Also, I would find out exactly what food/drink is available at the race, and plan in detail what to eat, drink, carry, and wear. Calories/fluids/core temperature are crucial. It can be really hot up on the wall, or very cold, or very wet, or windy, or all those on the same day. Preparation is king for ultrarunners. It'll be a ball.
Lorenzo – Sorry, but 55 to 70 miles is still pretty much medium mileage as far as I’m concerned. I wasn’t able to run a marathon faster than 3:10 when my mileage peaked at 70 miles. It wasn’t until I worked up to 90+ miles that I went from a 3:10 PB after 8 marathons to 2:56 in my 9th. Of course, everyone is different but that was the single change I had to make to reach my potential. I can now run sub 3 on lower mileage but if I ever want to break 2:50, I’ll need the high mileage again. Maybe you might be the same?
I’m no expert on 100k’s as my only attempt ended in a DNF. However, learning from my previous experience, as Poacher says it’s time on feet that really matters. I’m planning on working up to a run were I’ll be on my feet for at least 8 hours. This will include as many walking and standing eating breaks as I feel necessary. I’ve also started using a standing desk when I work from home two days a week.
One huge mistake I think I made on my last 100k was not to consume calories early enough. As your body can only digest and use about 300-350 calories an hour, it’s important to make sure you consume these from the very first hour.
I think in simple terms, some of us thrive when we hammer milage and get injured when we hammer quality. Some of us are the reverse. If we try go against this grain, we risk injury.
LB70, maybe there is a self belief element as you sound sceptical that you can run under 3h. Your recent times over short distance indicate you are capable of around that mark. Over the last 10k do you let your mind become doubtful and then accept a fading pace? If so, then this may be an area to fortify.
2nd May – Belfast Marathon – Badbark - Sub 3
21st May - White Peak - Gul Darr - 320 - 3.30
21st May - White Peak - Poacher - stay honest.
29th May - Comrades - BI - sub-9
29th May – Newry Marathon – Badbark – Sub 3
30th May - London 10000 - under 40'
11th June – Portumna 100k Ultra – Badbark – Sub 9 hours as my ‘A’ goal. Finish with any time as my ‘B’ Goal - (My only DNF 2 years ago after 85k)
18th June - Race the Wall 100K - Lorenzo - no real idea, but I've told people at work that I'm aiming for under 12 hours so I'll stick that in.
19th June - City of London Mile - PMJ - sub 6.
25th June – Victoria Park Belfast, 12 hour race – Badbark – Run till I drop
24th July - Outlaw - thread smackdown - Slokey Joe and Moof
25th September– Berlin Marathon - G-Dawg - Sub-3.10...why not!?
25th September– Berlin Marathon - MsE - TBC
2nd October - Chester Marathon - NM3 - 2:54:xx
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - Lorenzo - sub 3:05
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - LB70 - 3:09:59
23rd Oct - Abingdon - Jason T 3.14.59
Signed up to Chester...
Sorry, my OCD just can't let it be, need to correct the inconsistency...
2nd May – Belfast Marathon – Badbark - Sub 3
21st May - White Peak - Gul Darr - 320 - 3.30
21st May - White Peak - Poacher - stay honest.
29th May - Comrades - BI - sub-9
29th May – Newry Marathon – Badbark – Sub 3
30th May - London 10000 - under 40'
11th June – Portumna 100k Ultra – Badbark – Sub 9 hours as my ‘A’ goal. Finish with any time as my ‘B’ Goal - (My only DNF 2 years ago after 85k)
18th June - Race the Wall 100K - Lorenzo - no real idea, but I've told people at work that I'm aiming for under 12 hours so I'll stick that in.
19th June - City of London Mile - PMJ - sub 6.
25th June – Victoria Park Belfast, 12 hour race – Badbark – Run till I drop
24th July - Outlaw - thread smackdown - Slokey Joe and Moof
25th September– Berlin Marathon - G-Dawg - Sub-3.10...why not!?
25th September– Berlin Marathon - MsE - TBC
2nd October - Chester Marathon - NM3 - 2:54:xx
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - Lorenzo - sub 3:05
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - LB70 - 3:09:59
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - Jason T 3.14.59
1) be specific in your training - if it's on trail and hilly, do the bulk of your work on the trails and up and down hills. Emphasis is on strength rather than speed
2) plan how you are going to carry (and access) food / drinks / kit and get used to lugging things around on your long runs
3) most important - get the pacing / level of effort right and do it from the start of the race. Set a limit, have walk breaks from the start (either planned or whenever you are going up a hill). It isn't the distance that'll get you, it's the speed you try to run it at.
4) Vaseline
Managed 4-04 last week at London, foot injury played up at 6 mile mark! The injury has hampered my training since January and have struggled to put the required mileage in. Flew off to Tenerife for a week straight after so haven't posted.
Can I use my 2015 gfa time to apply again or can you only use it once?
Loved the whole experience from the expo to running down the mall!
Going to get my foot xrayed as unsure why it swells up if I run too long or too fast!
2nd May – Belfast Marathon – Badbark - Sub 3
21st May - White Peak - Gul Darr - 320 - 3.30
21st May - White Peak - Poacher - stay honest.
29th May - Comrades - BI - sub-9
29th May – Newry Marathon – Badbark – Sub 3
30th May - London 10000 - Fishy1 - under 40'
11th June – Portumna 100k Ultra – Badbark – Sub 9 hours as my ‘A’ goal. Finish with any time as my ‘B’ Goal - (My only DNF 2 years ago after 85k)
18th June - Race the Wall 100K - Lorenzo - no real idea, but I've told people at work that I'm aiming for under 12 hours so I'll stick that in.
19th June - City of London Mile - PMJ - sub 6.
25th June – Victoria Park Belfast, 12 hour race – Badbark – Run till I drop
24th July - Outlaw - thread smackdown - Slokey Joe and Moof
25th September– Berlin Marathon - G-Dawg - Sub-3.10...why not!?
25th September– Berlin Marathon - MsE - TBC
2nd October - Chester Marathon - NM3 - 2:54:xx
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - Lorenzo - sub 3:05
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - LB70 - 3:09:59
23rd Oct - Abingdon - Jason T 3.14.59
SJ - Ahh, injury free...what bliss
PB10 - I used the same marathon time (2008) for VLM GFA in 2009 and 2010.
Lorenzo - I've found that trainers a 1/2 size bigger with tried and tested comfy socks can aid success with long, off-road ultras.
But no marathons or ultras at the moment. Nice threshold track session this morning, 2mile warm up (8:30s), 2miles in 12:38, 1 mile easy, 1 mile 6:20, 1 mile cool down (10:00), then 20 mins gym core.
Fishy - what are you trying to do to me !!!
2nd May – Belfast Marathon – Badbark - Sub 3
21st May - White Peak - Gul Darr - 320 - 3.30
21st May - White Peak - Poacher - stay honest.
29th May - Comrades - BI - sub-9
29th May – Newry Marathon – Badbark – Sub 3
30th May - London 10000 - Fishy1 - under 40'
11th June – Portumna 100k Ultra – Badbark – Sub 9 hours as my ‘A’ goal. Finish with any time as my ‘B’ Goal - (My only DNF 2 years ago after 85k)
18th June - Race the Wall 100K - Lorenzo - no real idea, but I've told people at work that I'm aiming for under 12 hours so I'll stick that in.
19th June - City of London Mile - PMJ - sub 6.
25th June – Victoria Park Belfast, 12 hour race – Badbark – Run till I drop
24th July - Outlaw - thread smackdown - Slokey Joe and Moof
25th September– Berlin Marathon - G-Dawg - Sub-3.10...why not!?
25th September– Berlin Marathon - MsE - TBC
2nd October - Chester Marathon - NM3 - 2:54:xx
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - Lorenzo - sub 3:05
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - LB70 - 3:09:59
23rd October - Abingdon Marathon - Jason T 3.14.59
Sorry JT...what did I do? Some Chrome formatting disaster?
Did anyone put good money on Leicester?
I heard there was a guy who put £50 on them at 5000 - 1 but took a cash out option a few weeks ago for a £70,000 payout, I wonder how he feels about that now given the potential £250,000 payout he would have if he had held his nerve?
Yep, here's the story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/03/08/leicester-city-fan-cashes-out-on-250000-premier-league-title-bet/
Neil, I definitely think there's an element of that, except the doubts start before the last 10K! Not sure how I can work on this though as I don't have a problem in training (e.g. I can run a sub 90 half in training as part of a longer run) - maybe race more?
in terms of plans the quandary is whether to follow FIRST as it seems to be more based on my strengths or say P&D as this may address my weaknesses more -though it may be irrelevant if it's just a mental problem!
Or try going for a long bike ride and then immediately do a 6m run at HM pace on tired legs?
I am just suggesting ways of training pace on tired legs so the list could be endless