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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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or at least today's session if noone can be f***'*d
saw Trafford 10k's times have been scrubbed, 100metres short apparently. Gutting for anyone who set a quality time that would have been a pb anyway.
Can't actually remember his forum name, but good guy from the Middle Ground thread went from about 35.20 to 33.41, which looked an insane improvement, but probably would have been somewhere in the low 34s anyway.
But scrubbed off. Pretty bad luck. Not sure what's going on with some of these northern races after the Manchester marathon debacle.
Nice session SG
I'm out in the rain with the work "jogging club" tonight. I'm hoping it will help reassure me I'm not as crap as I think when looking at you lot's sessions
at least they have the commitment for rain not to stop play.
I haven't even bothered chivvying up for tomorrow, as there isn't a chance in hell it'll happen with this weather,
There's a fair few have already chickened out - it's only a bit of water - not even cold!
Nice session, SG, also CC, nice to hear some positive noises about someone's training.
Maybe you should focus your energy on yourself anyway, SG. I mean it's been a long haul since you raced so it should be all about you at the moment. I am assuming there's a race at the end of this mini training cycle that nobody obviously bothered to read
Sorry CC - missed it earlier! Cracking pace on the 400s......
trafford 10k was the same issue of a non calibrated wheel as with the marathon. poor show really. these things should be double checked.
congrats Iron for copenhagen
good sessions CC and SG. SG these sessions are where you need the most work. you have run more miles than me over the past 6months and generally hit 6.45 ish pace on them. so that side is ok. no real need to work on that anymore. you need the tempo / interval pain now. Enjoy
Reg, you're right to be honest, i probably needed this sort of "project" when I was boring myself with week after week of maintenance/recovery. Now we're getting right back into the mixer again, probably a bind I could do without. I'm sort of pleased the rain will rule it out tomorrow now, and maybe 2 cancellations in a row and we can gently sweep it under the carpet
Dean - for certain. Am excited at a "proper" period of this sort of training, in the past it was always punctuated by some race or other.
I did wonder about slotting some benchmark race in now, but I might just get these 6 weeks in
Reg-i'll stop boring on now...
Get a race in and stop talking about it! You can at least gauge what the six weeks focus had achieved!
Jogging club is down to just me and one other now! Bloody wimps!
What do you get out of it? is it just a trot around a route, or drills and stuff?
Some of my lot thought it'd be the former, but after 2mins we'd have split up, let alone after a miler or 2, has to be the latter in a group of mixed ability really. And much more fun too.
Just a trot round a route. length and speed depends on who goes, and usually there are sufficient to run in a few groups at different pace. I generally treat it as a recovery session, or an easy second run of the day. It is a good chance to be sociable though, which rarely happens on the rest of my runs! I also get to meet and chat to some of the few attractive young ladies that this building full of middle aged blokes contains, which is always good for an old man's soul
. Not tonight though. Just me and another old bloke. At least he's at the faster end of the spectrum!
Very nice reps CC.
With Manchester didn't they just adjust up everyone's time in the end? Surely Trafford would end up doing the same.
Pete & Reg - Field Size is the maximum allowed, not those that turned up.
That was for qualification reasons Iron, and also that you can't just go and expect to do a marathon flat out again any time soon.
Bus, sooner you than me. I'd sack that straight off. If tomorrow is rained off as expected, I'm wondering about engineering an exit, and getting this girl who helped me arrange things, making some BS up about how her "skills" with bootcamp stuff might be a better fit. Yea that'll do, but won't rush it, will consider.
Oh I forgot to say, thought of you on one rep earlier, you know when a small bit of mucus sort of gets lodged in your throat? Normally it happens when walking, so you'd just spit it out. It happened right near the end of a rep, and I spent a good 5 seconds, semi retching, trying to choke it up! I wonder if that's your usual race line experience. Not nice at all if that's anywhere near!
The maximum field size is very precise!
Rest didn't happen ended up doing the Tri club chain gang, it was hard work!
Rest is over-rated anyway AG
Nope SG - mine is lactic build up I think, causing a gag reflex. Generally slowing the pace brings it back under control, if i catch it in time, but also why a sprint across the line is often the final straw!
We ended up doing 5M at 7:48 pace relatively comfortable, but also quite socaible so glad I did it.
Anyway.. Quick read back still struggle to keep up. Great outing by IC
I will comment on the 5km plan SG and think it's going to be really good for you! I'm not sure if you are still coached but I think mixing it up will be great..You have a great base to work with (+1 with what Dean said) even when I was in great shape just before my op I wasn't doing the miles at paces you have been doing, and this can be used again in another cycle and measurable!
Double day with 4m run at 5:15 this morning then 20 mins elliptical after work . Still very low volume with niggles. But it's taking effect
Whose the next one up to race?? Something track like
Ta Scott, can always count on you for some good analysis. I'm hoping for what you say!
As the footy season went to pot last night, and annoyingly a late kick off, and laptop taking ages to shut down, it was a late night. Which is never a great bedfellow with an early wake up.
Told myself i'd just do 8, did 10. Not sure when I started conning myself like this!
I recognise that as the intensity goes up I'll have to keep half an eye on reducing the mileage!
Scott, do you reckon Eastleigh was short this year only, or for the last few years? Certainly I didn't have any reason to suspect it the years I ran it (2013 and 2014), and the times I ran were well in line with what I thought. Can't remember if I used a Garmin at the time though.
hi rob, yes saw christleton was adjusted. 10m short though is say less than 2 secs out. plus i bet i had to run wide that yr as there was a taxi driver doing a 3 point turn on the traffic closed road that i had to run the long way round. im still calling that run my PB for 5k.
mind you if not it leaps back to 16.01 which should be easier to achieve (particularly as i went through that quicker at telford 10k in dec)
Did the minibus yesterday, so got 6x800m with a lap jog recovery. It was pissing down so really wanted to do it as a fartlek session with hard and easy parts but managed to get out something closer to a reps session. Times were all abut 3:08 so 94 seconds per lap: faster than the 96 a week or so ago but not as fast as the aborted 4x800 last week so it makes sense.
In regards to SG's plan, the main thing I find is to understand the theory behind the plan rather than the plan itself. If you understand the theory, you can adjust and make it suit yourself. If it is just a plan on a sheet of paper then who knows what it is supposed to do?
You have a 6 week, 12 session plan to get a faster 5k which aligns with conventional plans that have a Tuesday and Thursday track session but that also leaves 4 or 5 days a week for other sessions. What happens for the rest of the week? Also 6 weeks is pretty neither here not there: most athletes will aim to peak once or maybe twice a year so you maybe do 12 to 16 weeks training, then 4 to 6 weeks when you are flying fast, then a spell off before doing it again. It takes about 3 weeks for training to show, so you basically have 3 weeks at the start without much improvement, then 3 weeks when the first 3 weks start to cut in, then you are done.
SG – my thoughts on the programme is that I like the mix of paces, and when I did 5k specific training I alternated sessions at 5K and 1500 pace, so the principle looks similar. My comments are
I would want to be doing more work at 5k pace. When I did 5k training, I based the whole thing around building up the length of the reps at 5K pace until I was doing 3 x mile (plus a little bit). I wasn’t confident of running my target pace until I knew I could at least do three mile reps in training at that pace.
I’m also wondering whether, in practice, there will be enough difference between your 1500m intensity and your 800m intensity to justify two different types of session, particularly if you’ve just been doing base work for ages. I suspect they will end up feeling quite similar.
I would also want some continuous fast running in there – whether a tempo at 10m pace, or a shorter distance at 10K pace, say 3 miles. At the moment, the longest you would be running quickly is 1 kilometre, which I’d argue doesn’t really prepare you for the strains of race day.
What I found really helpful were parkruns on the two weekends prior to the target race. This is because I find pacing a 5K to be a difficult one to get right and really benefitted from the pacing practice, and I found that I went quicker each time.
Ultimately, to do all the above, I ended up often having 3 sessions a week. I found this OK as I reduced the overall volume. However, that may not suit everyone.
All this analysis of sessions - anyone would think this was a training thread
. can't we get back to some smutty innuendo and/or hurling insults at each other?
Anyway, in the spirit of this new-found focus, I did a 5k specific session on the track today. Aim was 5 x 1k off 2 mins at 5k pace, which as a starter for 10 I'd assumed as a 17:59, or 3:35 per k. Came out as 3:33, 3:31, 3:31, 3:34, 3:35. The 3:34 was at least in part due to the absolutely torrential rain that started in the previous recovery. The 3:35 could well have been the effects of me feeling like a drowned rat and the track being an inch under water
. Either way, reasonably happy with that for now.
Plan copied and pasted here:
Basically there are 3 workouts each at 5k, 3k, 1500m, 800m intensity as follows
5k (82sec laps)
3k (78sec laps)
1500m (74sec laps)
800m (70sec laps)
What do people think of that little set? They're ordered on the sheet 1-12, so you start with number 1of 5k/3k/1500/800, and then number 2of each etc.
The thing I note with this plan is that the 5k and 3k look about the right volume for 5k training, maybe a touch over. I think the area where someone like SG will struggle is the shorter stuff with longer recoveries as that feels very odd to long distance runners. 5x400m off 3 minutes recovery means just a gnat's nadger off balls out pace.
Real men do what Julian Goater did:
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/featured/my-killer-session-julian-goater-42529/
Good to read some analysis from you chaps, who have been there, or are currently there. Appreciated.
Phil, there is always the very real possibility these 12 sessions are meant to be run over 12 weeks, maybe combined with a tempo. That'd fit your part about the 12-16week build up.
I suppose what I'm thinking, is that I've done 60+ mile weeks for so long now, and had years of the classic steady, mp/hmp tempo build up, so simply something completely different, and 5k based, as I don't see racing above 5k for a while, so a chance to do something specific for what actually thought was a fair chunk of time (6 weeks)
And I'm sure the 3min recovery will be hard, but none of those are longer than 400 pace, so should be alright. In fact the only thing I'm thinking, is it worth going to a track for 5x400!! Though clearly I'm not going to risk life and limb trying to do 70sec or quicker 400s on the road
I reckon ballz out would be around 60 possibly...although maybe I'm letting my memory remember how I was a few years ago, but 68-70 shouldn't be killer compared to that?
All noted Dachs, some strong points. I think as per my reply to Phil, there's a chance these might just be intended as 1 session per week, which would bring in your point about longer stuff on the other sesh.
Sessions 3 and 4 are both 200m reps for example, just at 1500/800. Whether i'll be able to differentiate between the paces is a very valid question.
I suppose when I do 12x200s off 90, those have tended to be 33/34 averages
Off this plan, the 16x200s should be 37, and the 10x200 would be 35
(Though as my "5k" was coming out more 78 than 82, you'd presume the other paces should come down a notch each)
I suppose if I intend to do these sort of in order, and over 6 weeks, I could at least switch tomorrow's 12x400 at 3k with one of the 200s, so I'm not doing 2x200s in one week? What do people think about that?
But Dachs, I think you're made of stronger stuff, so 3 session weeks can suit you. I probably wouldn't try that myself yet.
I also remember trying 3x1mile at 5k pace across town once. I felt absolutely ruined at the end. Probably making an already hard session very hard by also having to watch out for obstacles and crossings!
Scotty - not coached, haven't been since the race collapse, mid July. Although I still very much liked and rated the coaching, clearly I had no idea what the heck was up with me, let alone being able to commit to any sort of training that'd benefit me.
As I'm where I am now though, I might as well enjoy the "freedom" for a bit.
Will also have to force myself to accept if I am to do 2 track sessions a week, not to try and do mid 60s a week, as that is likely to be a quick fire way to issues.
run club was off again tonight, a couple didn't want to do it if light rain/wet grass, so I got a bit of a hump on and was very seriously considering just binning it totally.
However, I had an amazing sweep of enthusiasm, so instead am going to fuel a relentless drive to reawaken it. Feel good about it again.