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2016 Marathon Training Thread
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Well done on the double, Ollie, and good luck with the marathon, Sub17.
I ran my marathon on coffee alone. I once had a protein shake three hours before a 5K, figuring quick digesting whey should be fine. It wasn't. I do all my runs fasted now but I will consume gels (and any sweeties people give me!) as I seem to be able to digest those.
I was awake early today, and I could see it was going to be glorious again so I went out (even though I ran yesterday) and did 5.5 miles with a couple of fast mile intervals. I actually ran the non-fast miles faster than normal, too, as it was a bit colder than I was expecting. Legs felt good and bouncy though, so I seem to have recovered well from my race.
Splits were 9:59, 10:05 (had to cross a road), 8:45 (now the lower end of my parkrun speed), 10:10 (recovery, but still pushing a bit), 8:21 (much more like it!) and then a leisurely half mile home at 10:45 pace.
Yoga later, and weights and spin class tomorrow.
Quick post will catch up later
15miles @9.30 pace yesterday with a friend , pace was a bit slow for me really but shes great company and we had a good old natter !
just been for swim 32x 25 m
run later with local mates then I read back properly when I get home tonight
Hi guys,
Hope you don't mind me asking on here - wasn't sure where best my question fitted but you all seem v knowledgeable on Marathon training! Please do direct me elsewhere if this is irrelevant!
I ran MK Marathon 3 weeks ago (my first marathon attempt) and now want to carry on and do another in the autumn. However, I'm having a scheduling dilemma as I am away for 2 weeks 27th Aug - 10th Sept. Normally I'd just chuck my trainers in my bag and carry on but as I'm going backpacking in Vietnam, I really don't think this is an option. I may be able to get a couple of short runs in at most but a 20 miler just won't be possible - I also hate treadmill running, the though of 3 hours on a treadmill kills me!
So my options are either:
1) Richmond Marathon 17th Sept - If I could get my last long run in before I leave, then I'd be tapering on holiday and only have to fit in a 10 miler (15 miles at most?). But concerned if I can't do this, or something happens whilst I'm out there.
2) Bournemouth Marathon 2nd October - Means I would be a in the peak of training whilst on holiday, but could I come up with a plan that wouldn't matter if I missed 2 weeks then?
3) Salisbury 54321 14th August - Means I could get it all done before I go away but this is part trail, pretty hilly running and I'm used to the flat roads of London! Also haven't done a long run since MK and this is much sooner so would have to get on it pretty quick!
Thanks in advance for your advice - open to any more suggestions, these just work geographically for me!
Annabel - I'd probably go with Richmond. I've done the half there (the marathon is new this year - I'd already signed up for the half again when they announced that) and it's a nice race. Starts in Kew Gardens and has a good atmosphere although support is sporadic so you'll need to be comfortable running without a crowd cheering you on. Good T-shirt and bling, though.
Dan (posts as Dank-art) on the My Last Run forum in the General forum has detailed some nice runs he's done in Vietnam so you might want to look at that.
Some photos from last week:
Loch Eriboll Half (Photo: Kevin Arrowsmith)
Marathon Finish (Photo: Anne-Marie Squire)
Loo with a View
2 Lochs Race
Balnakeil Beach Run (Photo: Steve Honeyman)
Loch Eriboll Half (Photo: Kevin Arrowsmith)
AOH - good fun and excellent beardage.
Well run Cal. Good to vary the pace a bit.
NN - nice long run ... and swim!
Talking of which ... 1 mile of front crawl in the pool in 35:40. Felt good. And no algi or swan poop either
. Oh, and I played football last night ... it's an annual event and not something a man of my age should be dabbling in, especially when the opposition are all about 21 years old
. Long run tomorrow and long bike planned for Thursday.
OH, did you grow the beard a bit for the fancy dress race
, loving the pics and reports congratulations on a great week of racing
Dr Dan, a great swim enjoy the LR and bike
NN, well done with the 15 mile MLR and swim you are making me feel lazy
Cal, a good run enjoy the yoga
MG7, a great run at Keswick, congratulations getting an age group placing
Ollie, congratulations a cracking time at Manchester, I hope it wasn't short!
SM, some good running over the weekend, I hope you got a few zzzzz
Tek, well done with the short run
S17, good luck with the marathon, what else have you got planned during the week
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no run yesterday I had to get the grass cut while the sun was out, will look to get out this evening, not sure what I'll do yet though
The beard was actually trimmed and the tash removed (quaker style beard) to make it more authentic.
Less authentic is the increasing whiteness which perhaps makes it stand out more on photos
Well done guys.
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Thanks for all your good wishes. There's no more news to give at the mo as he's still the same as on Sunday evening.
SC: good grass-cutting! Pray for rain so you can get back to running
DrDan: well done with the swimming and football. I used to play 5-a-side a lot, but paranoid about injuries.
Annabel: I'd go for Richmond, and get some decent taper runs in while on holiday.
NN: good 15 miles with good company
Cal: nice miles early doors today, and glad you got the PB confirmed!
Sub17: good luck with the taper
Ollie: 20 miles is quite an accidental double!
Tek: hope you didn't buy anything too heavy on the shopping run
SM6: well done with the 15miles, and good consistent volume the last few days. hope you got some sleep
MG: really well done on the ultra. Impressive result!
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Treadie intervals tonight. It was super-sunny here in Copenhagen but a bit hot, so stayed inside for 8x400m. 4 miles in total with WU/CD
Evening all.
SM6: Yes it is a PB; only raced one 10k prior last July (44:16) so nice to see the training is paying dividends, but still hoping to reduce that time further. Hope you enjoyed your run yesterday, and got some sleep.
Though it's a strange circus to be at boasting a clown with a grinder and a power drill. 
Good going on the football game too, did you win? 
Hope you got a run in this evening; otherwise nice erh... grass cutting, is the grass greener on the other side? 
Cal: Thanks, nice early run yesterday and today, with some good splits chucked in there, great going. Hope yoga was enjoyable.
HM4: Thanks. Thoughts are with Chris' Grandad, hope he gets better soon.
Dr.Dan: Cheers, good swimming the other day, and today as well, were the swans taking a day off from the pool centre swim then? Always swanning off.
Sub17: Cheers, nice long run on Sunday, and good treadmill running yesterday, hope you had a good rest day today.
OH: Good 4 miles post Cape Wrath, great photos and cracking beard as always. I'm sure Abe appreciates the effort, bet he'll talk about it for about 4 score and 7 years or so.
Teknik: Thank you, was a good run on Sunday. Good to see you keep your legs ticking with the jogging and strides.
NN: Good 15 miles the other day, always good fun running with friends. Nice swimming today, and hope you had a good run as well.
SC: Thanks, though I imagine now would be the safest time to run without the races being incorrectly measured due to the publicity.
Yellow: Yes, was posting a letter to a friend and thought I may as well run there, couldn't quite recall how far away he lived... D'oh well, nice treadmill session, sounds like a good day for sunbathing in Copenhagen.
Annabel: I would go for the Richmond Marathon just because the taper period coincides with your holiday, so you can get all the vital runs in beforehand, and then enjoy your holiday. But it's up to you, and other people may give more sagely advice than I. Hope it all goes well.
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5 miles from me, nothing of note aside from the note scrawled on my hand for me to purchase sugar as a reminder for later.
Bought the sugar without issue as well, didn't really need the reminder so a waste of ink but oh well... Normal morning coffee service can continue unimpeded by lack of sugar.
It really was a run of the mill 5 miles when I talk more about sugar than the run itself.
Have a good day.
Ollie, a spoon full of sugar helps the coffee go down
, well done with the 5 miles
Yellow, indeed I do prefer to run in the rain at this time of year helps keep cool, a good interval session on the treadie
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7 miles with 3 @ LT, 7:50mm average for the 3, happy with that given 5+ hours driving today and not hydrating properly throughout the day.
Afternoon.
Hope everybodys' running is going well.
SC: Two spoonfuls in my case.
Good going on the 7 miles, nice, fast pace for 3 of those miles. 
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16 miles from me today.
On the way back home at the 14 mile mark, what do I spy in the corner of my eye as I gallop past a pub but my Dad. So of course it's a nice opportunity to scavenge a pint off of him, which I did.
Then 2 miles back home, though not the best hydration strategy but was good non-the-less.
Have a good day.
Olliepop & StewartC
Well done.
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Chris' Grandad passed away lunchtime.
Really sorry to hear that news, HM4.
Sorry haven't had a chance to get on here got to make the most of the weather, doing a bit of brick laying and dug the back garden over today.
NN and Yellow great racing and great race reports from both the short and fast relay to the Ultra
Well done guys, OH great photos
Had a couple of runs this week out with MG1 on Monday night around my Forest nice to show him where I run and did 6 this morning again back in the Forest, will do a very easy 4 tomorrow more work in the garden and take a rest day on Friday before Saturdays 10k race.
Been away with work in NPs part of the world so took the opportunity to have a nice run with him in his back yard up in the forest. Nice trials with plenty of hills that made me blow as we NPs steady pace is more than fast enough . Just popped in a steady 8 earlier , rep session tomorrow night to look forward to now ????
Cape Wrath Challenge Marathon 2016.
This marathon is unique: the runners are ferried across to the Cape in 2 small boats and started off in batches of about 16. The route heads out 11 miles on an undulating potholed untarred road to Cape Wrath lighthouse and back the same way. The clock is stopped at the ferry then restarted for the 4.2 miles back up to the community hall and finish.
Slower runners head out in earlier waves, faster runners in later waves. The relay runners do not run sequentially in a true relay for logistic reasons. Relay runners coming back from the lighthouse go out very early, whereas those going out to the lighthouse are last to start. This means that, for most of the run, you are meeting runners coming in the opposite direction – a very sociable run.
I do wonder if we might have run it faster if we had not used up energy on the numerous high fives?
After the previous day’s wind and rain, the marathon day dawned bright, calm and sunny. The hills created a stunning backdrop.
I rendezvoused with my 7:30 group at the community hall to be minibussed efficiently down to the ferry. Also in my group were “well kent” faces: the 2 Esthers from Holland, Chris from Portsmouth Judy (all regulars at Cape Wrath Challenge), Noel also from Orkney and Don from Alaska. Straight into the ferries into a smooth crossing, times recorded and away ...
We get just 10 metres grace before the first hill, quarter of a mile steeply up from the ferry. All of our group walked this. The gradient then slackens and the run truly begins. Chris quickly moved ahead followed by Don and Noel. I was determined to keep it steady for the first miles. I picked up abit more speed with descent to the Weak Bridge only to be followed by a long more gradual ascent now power walking up again.
A few more significant undulations but keeping steady before we finally rounded the last bend to see the lighthouse quarter of a mile ahead. In 2014, this was a hard struggle into the wind but no such problem today. Chris, then Alaskan Don were heading away from the lighthouse as I arrived, with Noel right behind me. Half a banana and half a Mars bar at lighthouse along with wetting my tongue with a drop of whisky.
Met Dave coming the other way (who was speeding back to literally propose to his girlfriend Victoria!)
After this, I ran along and chatted with Toni from Derbyshire, which passed the time nicely along to “Inshore” (4m)- the only building on route to Lighthouse. Water stop after which Toni dropped back. By now a light drizzle had started, which was actually quite pleasant. A steady uphill continued past Inshore before a long downhill section. Noel stopped for a comfort break before the downhill and I slipped ahead of him. Noel was appropriately wearing his Hibs football top in anticipation of his double celebration later that day.
Just under 1 hour 50 for the 11 miles out to the lighthouse - so on target.
Returning from lighthouse, I was following an incredible elderly Belgian runner who actually finished in a time shortly after mine. Noel was still chasing me. I met Sally, a friend from Devon coming in the other direction. I knew she would be running, but had not managed to meet up before the race. As expected, I met Elspeth heading out to the lighthouse about 2 and half miles from the lighthouse. Passing lots of other friends (Alan, Duncan Lorna...) also lighthouse bound. As Don was now slowing up a bit, I set my sights on the
As Don was now slowing up a bit, I set my sights on the “Alaska” on his back. Said “Hi” as I passed. Noel overtook me before we met two of the other Orkney runners coming out abot 100 metres apart. Next seeing the relay runners heading towards the Lighthouse including Siobhan, Noel's wife. Also the more elite full distance runners heading out including Sam who beat (his own) course record (2h42 today).
Now back at Inshore, I headed on, not seeing any one else until shortly before the ferry when I passed 2 of the slower runners who had started early. Another runner appeared on my back just before the sharp downhill to the ferry. Determined not to let him pass, I hammered downhill feeling the back of my thighs.
3 hours 45 and clocks stopped at ferry. I had hoped to make it to the ferry by 3 hours 40 which would have left me with a good chance of a PB. Just as I arrived at the ferry, the heavens opened and only priority was getting my waterproof from my bag. Tall Esther was in shortly after me, as was the elderly Belgian guy. A wet crossing, this time on the smaller boat.
Unfortunately at this point, I let my Garmin go into standby and lose its signal. I did not realise this until it was time to go again so recorded time by my Garmin was short. As we set off Esther said to me that if I equalled her on this section I would beat her as she had been later into the ferry. However, I had stiffened up and both Esther and elderly Belgian pulled ahead. A few more minor undulations, but running steadily I came into Durness village before heading down and then up round final loop into the finish. My Garmin read 4h25m30 but I knew there was a bit to add on because of the late restart after the ferry. Final official time was 4h27m40 (2m05 short of a PB)
Anne-Marie took photos as I finished; she had run the return relay leg from Lighthouse very early on.
The rain had eased a bit during the final 4.2 miles but now got quite heavy again. I had a quick shower to warm up then came back out to take a few photos and cheer in other finishers. Els came in at 4h26m13 (her wave was 50 minutes later starting) and for a few hours after, she thought I had beaten her. Official results (released at the Ceilidh) confirmed that Tall Esther had also beaten me.
I missed my PB but nevertheless felt I had had a good steady run and was quite happy after a full-on week.
Splits were very close to Elspeth’s and reflected terrain:
10:48, 8:58, 12:32, 9:06, 10:30, 8:48, 8:42 10:04, 9:22, 10:11, 9:18 Lighthouse
10:46, 10:31, 9:16, 10:05, 11:41, 10:47, 10:05,9:55, 9:55, 12:09, 9:46 Ferry
9:27**, 11:05, 10:35, 10:11, (10:13)
** inaccurate due to late Garmin restart
HM, sad news indeed,
Ollie, I can;t think of a better way to finish off a long run,
NP, hard labour in garden and some good running on the trails, do you have a target for Saturday's race?
MG, A good run with NP that is quick pace for a hilly trail run, well done with the 8 and good luck with the speed session tomorrow
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Hilly run for me today after work, I added two miles to last week's run going up into Daviot Woods, I will be looking to build this run to include the 5k loop up there, this will become my 12 - 13 mile mid week MLR.
HM Sorry about your sad news
NP Happy gardening all the best for your 10km
SC Your pace is continuing to develop, Sounds like your planning a gr8 MLR.. we're not far from that area nxt week
OH Inspirational.. Fab photos, gr8 place, outfits and experience... We had a wonderful time in Durness a few yrs ago walking from Cape Wrath 2 Sandwood bay .. your account makes me want to try that!
MG1 Funny to hear you say NPs pace is more than fast enough not surprised but you are fast too!
Ollie Interesting 16 miler with beer stop
Yel52 Treddie intervals, determined training ... go for it
DrDan Long run, bike, swim, footy a busy week!
Annabel01The Richmond marathon sounds a sensible option with a last long run before you head out to Vietnam.. interesting training over there.
NN nice 15 miler
Recovery is going well 20 lengths of the pool on monday and indoor climbing, took kids outdoor climbing on tuesday. Provided I don't overstretch climbing seems to really help get everything stretched out. 6.5mile Recovery run yesterday HR v. steady and slow 9m30s mm
Running down to Hawes End
Well earned break for the support team
Early morning barefoot running on the Honister pass!
The finish.. medals goodies and friends on the way!
A holiday in the Western lake district and running the Nine Edges Endurance race inspired me to run the Keswick Mountain Festival 50km ultra. Borrowdale, Buttermere and Crummock water are a favorite area so this route was perfect. I was soon on the look out for a training plan for a 50km race. The plan alternated between high mileage weeks and recovery weeks.
I managed to follow the training plan with not too many difficulties. The training was most enjoyable, by the time I completed a circuit of Kinder Scout it was evident that I was race ready. After the taper in the training plan and a week of good hydration and carbo loading we were ready to go! Unlike previous long distance training for this first ultra race I would follow a different approach to feeding during the race. On a recommendation from TL on this thread I used an endurance running energy drink known as Tailwind. We were soon leaving our Hobbit Hole at the Quiet Site at a ridiculously early time to get to the 6am start at Crow Park in Keswick. On the way I started with small regular sips of caffeinated tailwind.
With the promise of excellent weather and in fine conditions we were soon heading out of Crow park and along the shore of Derwent water. This was a nice warm up it wasn't long before we were heading upto Walla Crag taking this at a very steady pace ( a walk) we were at the top and heading downward to Ashness bridge someone shouted come on North Derbyshire. in the first hour I completed 5.5 miles. Walking up the hills a started taking small sips of the tailwind. I need a better approach to hydration e.g. handheld squeezy, hydration in backpack and feeding tube or a bottle holster. Today, there would be trouble from the support team if I didn't hydrate sufficiently! The path follows the beck to Watendlath at one point we arrived at a bridge destroyed by the flooding at this point I felt like a fake fell runner as I stopped to seek a suitable crossing point. Realising this was wasting time a just splashed my way across. The route and drops steeply down to Rosthwaite for the first checkpoint and feeding station, here I realised that I was not going to make my first split, I picked up the pace still not managing much more than 10minutes per mile I made it with ease at 9miles after 1hour 41 mins (11.2 min/mile). What a relief my 7.5hour plan was still on track (I was hoping to average my pace between 12 and 14 minutes per mile). It was wonderful to see my excellent support team.
The next section took us gently up to the Honister slate mines, I had to finish the remainder of my drink before the change over. Arriving early I stopped for a brief chat and took my next supply of energy drink for the next 10 mile section around Buttermere and Crummock. Heading up along the old tram way a steep climb was followed by a steep technical descent on the path running down to Buttermere between Fleetwith pike and Haystacks. I picked my way along like twinkle toes, this was a joke shared with a fellow runner. This section joins the road for a couple of hundred yards. A lucky coincidence and my support team were just pulling into a nearby parking area.
I'd planned to run this section at a faster pace, I couldn't seem to will my legs to do this but I seemed to be cruising OK. This section of the route was quite rough and undulating the route markers took you above the "nice" path running by Buttermere. This was actually quite a pleasant woody section, the section around Crummock was quite boggy. I arrived at checkpoint 3 at 20.5 miles after 4 hours just ahead of schedule I had half a banana at the feed station and moved quickly on. I met my family again on the start of the Newlands pass path. Here, I had another quick minute to change a shirt and to take on a full bottle of caffeinated tailwind. Of course I was tired but I felt the energy of excitement as I was about to commence the final climb. It was now bright and sunny.
I knew this section was famed for its field of bluebells but I was unprepared for the beauty of that blue carpet sweeping across the hillside on either side. It was becoming quite steep here and I took the opportunity to hydrate. There are three steep sections at the stream rentrants. As I moved closer to the top of the pass I reduced the walking and started running again as soon as possible, here I started to leave one group behind and pick up another in front. Once at the top of the pass the run down Rigg beck was splendid and the pace was picked up. Here there was a another shout go on North Derbyshire. I reached checkpoint 4 at 27.7 miles after 5.5 hours (20 minutes ahead of my fast plan) I took a quick swigg of coke. Although we'd completed the final major climb I knew that running back to Keswick around the base of Cat Bells would require further hill climbing.
Here I seemed to go quite well I caught up with someone I met on one of the recce runs we ran along and chatted but we encouraged one another to move on. We were soon at Hawes end and my family were there this time I carried straight on trying to build on the gain which had been made. The run through Portinscale and around the end of the lake seemed to go on a long time. During the last couple of miles I was really feeling the distance and found it difficult to summon the energy. I'd hoped to conserve a bit more pace with the finish in sight I pressed on through the exciting festival show ground and the buzz of people.
The garmin showed a distance of 33.7 miles and 6003 feet of ascent. With a chip time 6hr28min35s I was 46th Place overall and 3rd in the supervet category
The race marshalls were wonderful, the best, they were so encouraging I was also very fortunate to have an excellent support team pushing me on my way.
This was a wonderful race, the adventure had ended and now I'm craving another... what next?
Great run and report MG7. Looks like you have had good weather. I have walked almost all of that route and have run the boggy section along Crummock water (Buttermere 10)
Ollie: sounds like that would be good training for the Liege marathon - maybe put that one on the race plan next year?
NP/MG1: nice social running, sounds like you got some pleasant surroundings for training NP
OH: good round up on the Cape Wrath multi-parter. The ferry bit is interesting - wonder whether the break helps with a bit of recovery or hinders as you cool down and stiffen up a bit??
SC: sounds like a good MLR plan, with nice surroundings
MG7: Fantastic report on the ultra, and well done. Never seen the lake district at this time of year, but your mention of carpets of bluebells conjures up some vivid mental pictures.
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I've got an injury question. Had a niggling ache in my lower leg for a while now (probably pre-Brighton Marathon), but never enough to make me worried. Recently it's slightly more noticeable. Last night I did a gym sandwich, with 2 mile at recovery pace there and same back. The ache was very noticeable afterward and still this morning.
It's on the inside of the lower leg, about 3 inches above the ankle bone, in an area just inside the edge of the tibia.
What I'm pondering is whether I should:
- ice it, and stick to short/recovery runs until it goes away
- ice it, stop running until it goes away
- ice it, stop running until I've seen a Dr/physio
Any ideas what this could be and best action??
I have decided to not run a Marathon in 2 weeks time. I will not be up for 26.2 brutal miles. I struggled with a 14 miler last weekend barely averaging 7 minute mile pace. To run 12 extra miles at 7 minute mile pace in 2 weeks time is not going to happen.
What I need to do is gradually increase my long run towards 23 or 24 miles and lock down 7 minute mile pacing and see how it works out.
Two HM races in August now and I have locked in a Target Marathon in October. I will just run it for the experience and not worry too much about breaking 3 hours.
don't do your Long runs at race pace, you will need to run them 10% - 20% slower than MP, I would recommend reading Advance Marathoning lots of great advice on how to achieve your marathon goal
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Pete-Pfitzinger-ebook/dp/B0026IUOX2/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464277623&sr=1-1&keywords=advanced+marathoning
Evening all, hope everybody is well.
NP: Nice to see you've had some company over the past few days, hope you had a good 4 miles and best of luck for the 10k this Saturday.
Enjoy the reps tonight. 
Great photos and report, sounds like a good day out. Nice recovery sessions. 
MG1: Likewise, bet you've been keeping NP on his toes.
OH: Nice report, sounds like a great marathon, and the whiskey tasting doesn't sound half bad either.
SC: Nice going on the hilly run, sounds like a nice run and nice route to do an Medium run.
MG7: Yes, can't complain about the pit stop but shan't make a habit of it either.
Yellow: Maybe I'll add it to the To Race List.
Re: your injury, I'd think it advisable to take a few days off running, maybe test out on an easy run every so often, and if it doesn't get better in a couple of weeks' time, go to a physio or doctor. Though other people may have better advice than me so listen to them. Hope it gets better soon.
Sub17: Sounds like a wise move, the book SC recommends is really useful, it recommends starting off long runs at 20% of your race pace, and increasing the pace to 10%. So if you want to target sub-3 (let's say 6:50 min./miles), then start off at 8:12 min./miles and gradually increase to 7:31 min./miles for the last few miles. All the best with the marathon training.
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Today was a strange run, planned to do an easy 8, and in a way I did manage an easy 8 miles, but that was all it was supposed to be, ended up racing with some gobby van driver for just under a mile between miles 2 - 3 before he (assumedly) turned left at a junction, ran an extra 2 miles to make it 10 miles in total, then decided to really push my last mile pulling out a 5:57 min./mile.
So after an atypical 10 mile run, tomorrow will be an easy run day, but feeling very good running just lately, and hope to challenge my course record at Woodbank parkrun (18:25) this weekend.
Itching to get back out there again already so hopefully my Saturday attempt proves not to be in vain.
Have a good day.
Just a quick pop-in - been off with yet ANOTHER chest infection
Great reports and photos Michael and OH
sorry, sad news HM
yellow go see a fizz if it's been niggling for that long...
nice running everyone else
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5.5m steady at 8mm-ish tonight around Hyde Park
Well done guys & great reports and piccies.
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Thanks guys. I'm relieved it didn't drag out and he's back with Nan.