Options

Fuel Source

Hello, just wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of an "idiot's guide to fat burning"?  I've been using energy gels for long runs but they make me feel a bit queasy plus they're a nuisance to carry so recently spotted some talk of burning fat instead of sugar.  Does anyone have experience of this?  Is it an easy thing to migrate to?

Any guidance or reference guides would be appreciated.

I have found a few references on the internet but it all sounds V confusing so wondered if anyone had any actual first hand experience of it.

Thanks.

T

Comments

  • Options
    BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    Hi Tara - this link provides some fairly simple guidance. 

    I gather you are new to marathon running (I saw your splendid debut result on the Spring marathon page) - well done ! ,  so what I would say, as someone who's done a few mara's, is don't get too hung up on the need for en-route fuelling during your long runs. If you pay proper attention to your food intake the day prior to your long run, then you don't necessarily need to take anything with you. The caveat here, of course, is that each runner is different eg I ensure my diet pre long run day is carb biased, I don't eat breakfast (for a morning run), but some prefer to do so.  Another factor, of course, is time on feet - one person's 20 mile run could take 60 - 90 mins (for example) longer than another's. 
    You could experiment by, say, doing your next long run by carb loading as I suggest the day before, then going out without breakfast, but do the run in loops, say 5 x 4 miles, hence passing your house or a point where you have stashed sports drink, for example (but only take this if you really need to)  You can then have an a idea of what your body is capable of.  

    Sorry if the above is a bit rambling, but I'm sure you'll be able to figure out what suits you best.

    One final thing - marathons were being run, raced, & raced well, long before gels were around. They are not essential, let alone compulsory . . . . .

    Good luck at Chester image

  • Options
    senidMsenidM ✭✭✭
    +1 with Birch, gels are a monument to advertising and peer pressure, and make very little, if any, difference to anyones performance in a marathon.



    Certainly nothing like as much difference as proper training and a good diet make - personally I think they're just a placebo, but not a bad one.image
  • Options
    Simo429Simo429 ✭✭✭

    Carb loading is an outdated term. Once your glycogen is full its full you aren't topping it up. As for gels being placebo there are too many atudies and professionals uaing them for that to be the case. However optimised fat metabolism ia another route, google froday fat black podcast for some good information on it.

  • Options

    The most efficient way to burn fat through exercise is to incorporate HIIT, since the activity forces the body to use its anaerobic energy system. 

    When exercising anaerobically, since the body is unable to process oxygen as quickly as working muscles require it, it relies upon glycogen (and then fat) in order to fuel endeavour during the intense periods.  The reason HIIT can only be performed for short periods is due to the fact that glycogen and fat can't be processed by the body as readily as oxygen, hence the reason steady state cardio always will feel easier.

    Due to a whole host of other positive physiological changes that occur during HIIT, chiefly the increased ATP density (power) of muscle fibres, a far greater increase in the body's ability to handle increased levels of lactate in the blood and improved mitochondrial activity in your heart (strength of contraction), not only does the activity result in increased fat loss, it also improves fitness and endurance when performing steady state cardio, allowing you to run for longer.

    If performed correctly, HIIT will certainly help to reduce body fat, due to the huge energy deficit it creates (known as the after-burn effect), in addition to improving composition.  Best of all, performed twice weekly, HIIT sessions need to last no longer than 15-20 minutes in order for incredibly quick and satisfying results to be witnessed. 

    Given your weekly distance, you’ll have no doubt developed a decent level of fitness, so you shouldn’t find the transition to HIIT too difficult.

    To begin, ensure that hard intervals (all-out sprints) last no longer than 30 seconds, allowing 60 seconds (walking) recovery in between.  As your body adapts to HIIT, increase the length/intensity of the hard intervals to 60 seconds (increasing the uptake of glucose and fat) , but ensure that a HIIT session doesn’t last longer than 25 minutes, since it’ll begin to have a catabolic effect upon levels of muscle mass. 

    As for diet, allowing body fat to be reduced, consult BMR and TDEE calculators as they're largely accurate in determining daily calorific needs.  Having obtained figures for both, seek to introduce a daily calorie deficit from TDEE, while ensuring that the deficit introduced doesn't take you beneath BMR. 

     

  • Options
    Simo429Simo429 ✭✭✭
    Miserable git you didn't read the question it's not about burning fat to lose weight it's about burning fat as fuel however the whole idea of using HIIT to burn more fat is silly. Yes you use fat as a substrate for respiration at a higher proportion if you do HIIT but if you do lower demanding training you do more respiration so you are still using more fat.
  • Options
    senidMsenidM ✭✭✭
    Ah well, thats me baffled by science, good luck with sorting out an answer from that lot Tara, image
  • Options
    Not that I think HIIT (How often do people do low intensity intervals?) is answering the question being asked but there are a few inaccuracies above. You're always burning either glycogen or a mix of glycogen and fat, depending on the intensity of the activity. Discounting strides, which aren't what are being described above, HIIT is not the best way to train for long distance running. For example, you cite a benefit as the body becoming more efficient at clearing lactic acid, however lactate threshold training is a better way of stimulating this response.



    In answer to Tara's question, my understanding is you can become more efficient at using fat as a fuel source while running. So you may be able to go from getting 10% of your calorie needs from fat at marathon pace to 15%, however you will still be mainly using glycogen. Things like not having breakfast before long runs and not taking in extra calories during them, as mentioned above, I believe are meant to increase fat burning %. Also, the more you deplete your glycogen stores during runs, the greater stimulus this gives to tor body to store more glycogen in the future.



    For me, it was a maths equation of how many calories would I burn during the run, how many of these would be glycogen and how much glycogen could I store in my body. The deficit was what I needed to consume during the marathon so I didn't hit the wall. An easy way of reducing the calories needed to cover the distance is losing weight. Other than this, the total amount of miles you have run previously is meant to correlate with increased running economy. Carb loading for the 2 or 3 days before race day increases the stores of glycogen, as well as regularly depleting your glycogen stores (so again, running lots of miles). As mentioned above, I believe not eating breakfast before a long run and not fueling during are meant to increase fat burn %, as well as running plenty of easy miles where you're burning a greater % of fat as opposed to more intense paces.
  • Options
    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭

    Tara - I can't use gels they make me feel sick, I prefer to use just a few sweets which is a much cheaper and more palatable way of taking on a few carbs.   Don't waste your money on any special 'sports' sweets, any high carb sweets will do, whatever you like.   

    You can also use dried fruit, such as dates as long as they agree with you.

    As time goes on, as long as you are continuing with your marathon training and your races, your body will become more efficient at fuelling.   You will get to know your requirements during training and racing.

  • Options
    SideBurnSideBurn ✭✭✭

    This is a work in progress for me, I am (was) the epitome of a person addicted to sugar and I am doing something about it. Like everything of course you have to find what works for you, but this chap explains it well and has a wealth of information on his site.

    https://philmaffetone.com/what-is-the-maffetone-method/

    Basically you train more slowly in your 'fat burning zone' training your body to access its fat reserves and not relying on the much easier to access sugar reserves. It is not a quick fix and not easy to stick to at first but it seems to be working well for me. I can now run 20 miles on an empty stomach with no food (but plenty of water) the best bit is stuffing my face with peanut butter and jam on toast when I get home!

     

  • Options
    Simo429Simo429 ✭✭✭

    Jam is pure sugar though?

  • Options
    SideBurnSideBurn ✭✭✭

    As I understand (from the method) it is OK to replenish your depleted sugar reserves after a run and OK to top up your sugar reserves during a run. But not OK to eat a predominantly carbohydrate diet... or to be exact processed carbohydrates (high GI foods).

    So for instance I still eat spaghetti bolognaise but with stir fry veg. instead of spaghetti veg is still carbs but without the instant sugar hit you get with processed carbs.

    So instead of toast and jam I could have pasta after a run but not on a rest day and definitely not before going to bed!

    So not so much what you eat, more when you eat it!

  • Options
    MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Sideburn, you beat me to the Maffetone stuff. Was going to suggest it. I haven't cut out carbs completely but only eat them in large amounts before hard runs and races.
  • Options

    Simo429, the OP may not have asked how to burn fat as means of losing weight, but an inevitable side effect of burning fat during exercise is weight loss. 

    Regardless of whether exercise is performed aerobically or anaerobically, fat and glycogen will be burned.  The higher the level of exertion, the quicker glycogen will be depleted, meaning that the body utilises greater levels of fat throughout the duration of the activity.  Consequently, HIIT is perfect for achieving such an aim. 

    I’m not recommending that HIIT replaces all other methods of training since each possesses its own benefit.  The fact that you appear to dismiss the benefits of incorporating HIIT is your decision entirely, but it’s something that’s assisted me in improving my running performance. 

  • Options
    Simo429Simo429 ✭✭✭

    It certainly improves performance but as explsined above in great detail the idea of the 'fat burning zone' is pseudoscience at best. 

  • Options
    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭

    I've done low carb diets in the past and find I run a lot better when carbs are in the equation. However, what I do do is run before breakfast. This was partly out of necessity because it takes me forever to digest anything, so I'll just have some black coffee before I go out. I didn't even have any breakfast before Manchester marathon (my first, btw) this year. Your body gets pretty used to burning fat if you do your runs fasted, as I do.

    Best thing you can do is experiment and find what works for you.

  • Options
    SideBurnSideBurn ✭✭✭

    I agree entirely Cal Jones, it is about what works for you. But fasted runs are a good idea.

    I asked an elite runner what he thought of the Maffetone Method and he said 'LoB' but also said that he does 30 mile fasted runs and so does not think he needs to worry too much about his ability to 'burn' fat!

Sign In or Register to comment.