Are you and "in" or an "out"?

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Comments

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭
    HA77 wrote (see)

    I can't help but think that the leave campaign would do better if Farage wasn't around. Anyone who likes him is going to vote leave anyway and those who are on the fence are likely to be put off. There is one of those posters just down the road from my work. I couldn't believe it when I realised what it was about. The whole thing is quite upsetting but something about seeing kids in the poster really got to me..

    Spot on... good observation about Farage. 

  • ZouseZouse ✭✭✭

    It is Farage who triggered this whole referendum, and so the Leave campaign distancing themselves from him at this stage doesn't quite wash.

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    It might not "wash", but if he wants to achieve his objective, then a subtle retreat into the shadows would help him. 

    I doubt his ego would allow that though!

  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    Nose Nowt wrote (see)

    HA77  -  Clearly many Leave campaigners are very intelligent (including at the top where I think Gove has looked far more prime-ministerial than Boris).

     

    My neighbour's cat looks more prime-ministerial than Boris.

    I haven't seen the Farage poster - can anyone describe it so that I don't have to see it?

  • ZouseZouse ✭✭✭

    It's a long queue of hundreds of not-very-white-looking refugees winding its way towards the viewer, with a text box saying "BREAKING POINT" in enormous font with the subtitle in smaller font beneath " The EU has failed us all".

    The only obviously white person in the original Getty image that he used has been concealed by a strategically positioned box of text. It's all very reminiscent of inter-war Nazi propaganda & has been reported to the police for inciting racial hatred by Dave Prentis from Unison.  Lovely.

  • It's a heartbreaking photo - and why would they remove the white guy ? I'd not have thought that we could stoop so low.
  • On a slightly different note, this......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGC5S3ag1q0

    .....is fucking brilliant. 

    (watch the volume, as it's not wholly suitable for the workplace)

  • The thing about the whole Ukip immigration poster is that leaving the EU will have NO impact on immigration from outside Europe which this poster is getting at!

    A lot of the people voting leave are going to be very disappointed when immigration doesn't reduce!
  • skottyskotty ✭✭✭
    Mr Worry wrote (see)
     
    A lot of the people voting leave are going to be very disappointed when immigration doesn't reduce!

     

    why won't it?

     

  • Over 50% of immigration into UK is from outside the EU.

    If we want to continue Free Trade with the EU then we'd stay in the European Economic Area. But if we stay in that - we can't restrict movement.





    If we pull out of the EEA then we'd have to renegotiate with the EU and why would they give us as favourable terms as you get within the EU ? That makes no sense. If you're part of a club you want benefits. So our exports would be taxed more and we'd undoubtedly lose some.



    For multinational companies - why would you make things in the UK when you have factories within the EU that would let you sell at cheaper or higher margins ? They move production round all of the time.



    Although if we hamstring our production - we'd need less people so less people working here - so less immigration.. Genius idea Nige.
  • Leaving the EU will have little effect on migration because most migration to Britain has been from outside the EU (75% since 1990 from outside Europe).

    If we want to continue having access to free trade with Europe we will have to agree to free movement (like Norway who are outside the EU). Therefore little impact on immigration.
  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭

    Oh, that sounds like a nice poster.  Not.

    Let's leave Europe so that we can stop (or not as the case may be) helping the poorest, most downtrodden, victimised people of the world.  But it's ok, we won't have to adhere to the Working Time directive or subsidise some guy's limo.  That balances out fine.

     

  • .
  • I'm voting out because I think there are a lot of scare tactics going on. I remember when the UK decided not to adopt the Euro as currency, most people said it was unwise and the pound would become worthless etc and it's not true. 

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    marathon molly.. hopefully there are better reasons for your decision than the tactics being used by those leading the campaigns! And as for...  most people said it was unwise and the pound would become worthless?    I don't think they did!    

    I remember it very differently.  Of course some financial institutions said it would be better to join the Euro, but I don't remember it being a universal view by any stretch of the imagination.  For a start, the government set up some economic criteria that would need to be met before putting the idea to a referendum...  and I don't think there was ever any danger of us meeting those criteria.

  • runner-manrunner-man ✭✭✭

    In my home town which is a Essex, conservative-strong area, the hints are the leave camp may win. I believe the immigration issue is winning where many are worried taking in more immigration whether inside or outside the EU does put pressure on school places, health and housing. Its more to do with their own circumstances rather the economy.

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    Mr Worry, cougie and others.

    Would we really not have control of immigration if we voted out?  Do I really have the right to go and work in Norway, unrestricted?

    I know that EU citizens have free movement, but is it really relevant that more than half of immigrants come from outside the EU?  Can we not just stop that if we wanted right now - irrespective of EU membership?

  • There are indeed scare tactics going on - a lot of them from the Brexiteers.

    Boris and Farage are basically lying their arses off. We know how much we pay to the EU and they arent quoting the right figures.



    Immigration - we've covered that above.



    That 350M a week that we send to the EU - total lie- its more like 136M a week.

    And that doesn't allow for the money that the EU gives to the UK.



    20 years ago the IRA blew up Manchester City Centre. The EU gave 20M pounds to rebuild. Our Government ? 150k...



    If Farage is going to spend the "savings" from our EU subsidy on the NHS - then who is covering the rest of the EU subsidies ? Who is subsidising the farmers ? Regional Grants ? Universities ? They must be worse off.



    And anyway - in the scheme of things - the money that we give to the EU is 2% of our governments expenditure. It's not like the EU is milking us to death.



    We will lose business. My employer is a multinational. We have factories all over the place. We simply swap production to the most advantageous sites.



    Why would you make in the UK and then export to the EU and suffer a tax when you can simply make the stuff inside the EU and avoid the tax ?



    We cant leave the EU and still expect the same trade deals.



    Molly - your answer isn't a good enough reason. The only people in favour of exiting have ulterior motives. This is Boris' shot at seizing power. He has been in favour of the EU up until he saw his chance at power - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/21/boris-johnson-eu-brexit-supports_n_9286400.html



    His quote - ???It is also true that the single market is of considerable value to many UK companies and consumers, and that leaving would cause at least some business uncertainty, while embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country ??? low skills, low social mobility, low investment etc ??? that have nothing to do with Europe.???



    So many business leaders and economics experts are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in. Do we think they are stupid ? Or lying ?
  • NN here you go - no problem with going to Norway.



    If you are a British citizen or British subject you do not require a visa to enter Norway. British nationals should consult and confirm the current entry requirements with their nearest Norwegian Embassy



    A valid British passport must be held for entry to and exit from Norway. There is no minimum passport validity requirement, but you should ensure that your passport is valid for the duration of your visit.



    British citizens need not apply for a residence permit, but must register themselves on arrival if they are planning to reside in Norway. This can be done via one of the service centres located in Oslo, Stavanger and Kirkenes or contact your local Norwegian police station for further advice.



    For further information on the rules and guidelines that apply to nationals from various countries including the UK, please see the website of the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI).



    Nationals of countries in the EEA are free to enter Norway for up to 6 months to look for work or set up a business. If you do not manage to establish yourself within the 6 month period, but are still financially stable, you may be able to remain in Norway.
  • marathon molly wrote (see)

    I'm voting out because I think there are a lot of scare tactics going on. I remember when the UK decided not to adopt the Euro as currency, most people said it was unwise and the pound would become worthless etc and it's not true. 

    I, too, would sincerely hope you have better reasons than that. And remember that the scare tactics are coming from both sides. Turkey joining the EU (never going to happen) is one of them.

    This is important so please at least inform yourself with some impartial information about the issues and visit the BBC's "Reality Check" website:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35603388

     

     

     

  • NN I guess we could stop immigration - but we need skilled people for our NHS ?

    Immigration is a red herring anyway. Immigration is a benefit to the UK - they come to work. 93% of benefit claimants are UK born. It's us lazy Brits that are the problem - not people coming to work.



    Also if we stopped immigration - would that not have an effect on our 'ex pats' ?



    Funny how that's respectable but immigrants attracts bad press.
  • I can appreciate your points of view and obviously I have read quite a lot of information and I believe we would be better out. That's the great thing about living in a democracy, we all have the right to voice our opinions. By the way, I think the remain camp will win based on listening to friends and family.

  • runner-manrunner-man ✭✭✭

    I think whatever result, we will be heading towards uncertainly.

    If the UK votes to leave, true we don't know what will happen.

    If the UK votes to remain, we will have a government who will not have their way. I cannot see Cameron and Osborne getting anything through where 60 of their own MPs want to leave the EU. This government will be held to ransom. That won't be good for anyone.

    Will be interesting where will be this time next week. But I fear as a country we stand to lose whatever the result.

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the info about Norway.

    I've watched, read and listened to a lot of arguments.  I suppose that that argument has been put forward before, and I've missed it.  But I have missed it, I guess that many millions of other people have too.

    It sounds like a really important point to counter the arguments of Brexiteers - but the Remain camp have been generally useless at making their arguments, so maybe no surprise that this drum isn't being banged every day,

  • Doesn't being signed up to the European Human Rights mean than we have to let in more people outside the EU? Or not be able to send some back?

  • Reading this thread has made me feel the most positive I've felt about the vote since campaigning began! I'm most definitely in the remain camp and this is the biggest collection of other "remainers" I've come across. That being said, I still fear the outcome will be to leave, sadly.

    It seems like so many people have completely misguided ideas about exactly what influence the EU has on their lives - all the local issues they don't like are not caused by the UK's membersip of the EU, but every political grumble or gripe is currently being blamed in the amorphous EU. It's any easy cop out for years of central (and, to a certain extent, local) government mismanagement. 

  • I'm pleased to report that the Remain odds are shortening across the board:

     

    /members/images/855487/Gallery/brexitodds_0.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

  • Little Nell wrote (see)

    Reading this thread has made me feel the most positive I've felt about the vote since campaigning began! I'm most definitely in the remain camp and this is the biggest collection of other "remainers" I've come across. That being said, I still fear the outcome will be to leave, sadly.

    It seems like so many people have completely misguided ideas about exactly what influence the EU has on their lives - all the local issues they don't like are not caused by the UK's membersip of the EU, but every political grumble or gripe is currently being blamed in the amorphous EU. It's any easy cop out for years of central (and, to a certain extent, local) government mismanagement. 

    I agree. There a a lot of gripes, real, imagined and misdirected being hung onto this. 

     

  • An American guy was saying the other week. " If you keep telling people their problems are not real and they are just misguided , you end up with Donald Trump"

  • kaffeegkaffeeg ✭✭✭

    1. I'm totally and utterly In.

    2. Any person with an ounce of brain would vote In (sorry outers!). We all have very short memories. Which is dangerous. Better together. peace. Freedom of movement (a GOOD thing. A two way thing!)

    3. the grewt British public is dumb. We're going to vote out.

    i'm one of those awful people with a home in London (everyone is voting In) and a home in the countryside (where everyone is voting out). And given that london is it's own little bubble and Middle England accounts for most of UK : it's going to be out.

    i've started grieving already.

    and reapplying for my Austrian passport, (dual nationality) so my freedom of movement won't be restricted! Ha! 

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