The Middle Ground



  • I thought it was a third Brownlee when they unveiled you in the chamber Dan!image

  • BTW What are the arrangements for access to the chamber? Would a certain upcoming Team GB athlete be able to use it for her 50K heat acclimatisation work? 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    I was quietly working away in my office when MH stuck his head in and said he needed a runner and do I have my kit! Oh, the irony of a discussion about elite athletes with some old bloke jogging in the background!image

    I'll ask about the chamber.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    A little bit of parkrun tourism for me this morning at Poolsbrook near Chesterfield (and the in-laws). The aim based on my current fitness was to target 23:00. The weather was blustery but dry although the wind was in your face for about 1/3 of each of the three laps (and likewise behind for the same amount I suppose). Nice course and friendly people though. 

    Set off a bit too quickly and did mile one in about 7:00 pace. Haven't worked out the other splits yet, but crossed the line and stopped the watch at 23:01. So not bad at all and felt like I still had something in the tank, so something to work from.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Well done  Andrew.

    Lovely but of tv work, Dr Dan.

    I did parkrun also. It was wet and blustery and with a big run Sunday and a 5 mile race Wednesday I decided all out wasn't worth it so t argetted 6.15 pace which is planned 5 mile pace. Came out 6.10, 6.10, 6.17 and 5.34 for scraps for 19.13. Pretty pleased with that as having run an all out parkrun 5 weeks ago, this wasn't that. I was surprised how easily 6.10 pace came. I think had I busted a gut I'd have been  able to pb. 5th place as well which is my highest ever parkrun finish. 

  • Hello-

    Dan: nice job on tvimage

    Andrew well done

    DT Nice job on pr

    i have been quietly working hard on my comeback after my knee and pleased to report I have had some big weeks and  last 2 weeks 55 miles and long run up to 14 miles all going well 3 weeks to my half.I have changed routes so a hilly route which is challenging but what I love a lot more than boring promimage so one more big week then a taper.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Thanks both. I was 10th (of about 80). 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Good news WP!

    Great parkrunning DT & Andrew.

    Friday was bike commuting and intervals ...

    4.8 miles including 4 x 800m and 2 x 400m with 90 s rests...
    1, 800m, 3:13, 140/151 bpm
    2, 800m, 3:06, 144/157
    3, 800m, 3:07, 150/158
    4, 800m, 3:12, 149/157
    5, 400m, 1:29, 145/158
    6, 400m, 1:25, 145/162

    And Sunday was 8.3 miles with 6 tempo... 7:12/m for 139 bpm (81.5% maxHR).

    Just bike commuting today ... off to Snowdonia tomorrow. Hope to get some runnign done as well as climbing Snowdon.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Yes, I forgot to say well done WP - sounds like you are making real progress. Is the knee totally niggle free now? Remind me, which half are you doing?

    Good luck on Wednesday DT.

    Dan - have a good break, some good hill work to be had there I'm sure!

  • Dan: Snowdonia is a fab playing groundimage

    Andrew: Totally niggle freeimage this last 8 weeks is the only time this year I have been able to training injury free and first race I am going in without injuryimage

    Lake Vyrnwy and my favorite race so I am over joyed to be running it then a 10k the week after not ideal but local to me and I have last year's time to better and I have the confidence I will!

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Glad you are now in working order, WP!

    Good running Dr Dan. Do you feel like you are continuing to improve on the First stuff? I know you are only quasi following it right now.

    5 mile race last night. This was now my oldest pb having run 31.59 in the same race last year. Plan was to run it at 6.15 pace. In the end my average pace was 6.15 but I did it the hard way with a 6.04 first mille and 6.27 last mile coming in for 31.29 on watch so probably 31.30.

    So since turning 40 in January ive pb'd at 5k (twice), 5 mile, 10k, half marathon, 20 mile and marathon. The only outstanding distance is 10 miles which is probably my strongest 30s pb as was set 3 weeks before my 40th. I only have 1 go at that, being the race my pb was set in, in December.

  • DT: Sounds like 40 is the magic age for you and all those pb'simage great race last night well done!


    Last long run 14.69 and the most miles in 9 years Sunday is the start to my week so tapering starts Sundayimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - good continuation of the pb streak image

    WP - don't let taper-madness take hold!

    I did 7 miles last night which is my longest run since 24th April! After a difficult few months I have felt the past couple of weeks things have started to click a little. As I said to my wife last night (who commented that I seemed happier about running than I have for a while), I am starting to feel like a runner again rather than simply a bloke going for a run (if that makes any sense!).

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Good to see I am still more than capable of jinxing myself, ref the comment above!

    I rolled my right ankle a week or so ago, but seemed to get away with it and did a good week's running, only to then go over on it again whilst out on Saturday night, this time more seriously. It does still hurt to walk on - the pain being on the outside of the ankle and along the outside of the base of the fifth metatarsal. Hoping it is just a bit bruised and strained rather than anything more sinister.

    By coincidence, I have a physio appointment booked for tomorrow anyway (to have a look at my tight Achilles) so they can take a look at this too.

    Depressingly, I write this on the anniversary of my 10k pb - I now feel a million miles away from that sort of form. I know I have had a very good reason to have had a disrupted year, but it still gets me down a bit that I cannot seem to get any consistent period of running going without something or other cropping up to get in the way.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Bad luck, Andrew. Ive found that getting on a bike helps to hold my fitness during times like this.

    Good luck for Sunday, WP.

    I have just had a long weekend in North Wales so not trained since Thursday. I have a half marathon on Sunday. It's a pretty hilly course and from the twice before I have done it, I am normally able to follow it up a month or so later on a faster course with a good minutes improvement.

    I am going to stick to schedule this week though but front load my two hard runs tonight and hopefully tomorrow to allow a reasonable recovery period.

    I was pleased to see following last weeks 5 miler that my run britain  handicap dropped to 4.7, which is it's lowest ever level, and just as I'm about to enter a period of lots of racing.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Bad luck Andrew ... I had a very bad ankle roll in Tenby earlier this month. Came up like an egg and I thought I was toast for 6 weeks ... but remarkably I was able to run 3 days later! Still giving a the odd twinge and it certainly made itself known on today's 18 miler.

    WP - looking good for Vyrnwy!

    Things are looking very good for you DT. I didn't start running until 42 and most of my PBs came at 45. Still hoping to get back to those times at 50+ ... we shall see! As you said, I have diverted away from FIRST quite a lot but have stuck to the interval schedule and the basic principle that I can run less miles if I cross train. I think it suits me but I really didn't like the pace fort eh long runs and much prefer the "two consecutive long run" approach based on Hanson.

    Anyway ... went to Snowdonia last Tues but did manage to sneak in a 10.3 mile plod before we set off. The next day was supposed to be another 10 miles but instead I climbed Snowdon via the rather tasty Crib Goch route. Coming down screwed my left knee but it had recovered by Friday night when we returned to Leeds, so I decided to parkrun the next morning. Turned out t be a good decision as I clocked my 4th ever sub-20 (19:58) and the first since April 2014 (other two were 2010 & 2011). Next morning was 10.3 miles at "almost MP" ... Mon off, Tues evening was 10.3 miles again (easy) and this morning (Wednesday) was 18.3 miles with 4 at MP following the first 13.1 at about 9/m:

    7:55, 133/139 bpm
    7:47, 137/141
    7:54, 140/146
    7:52, 141/144

    Pretty knackered now and my ankle is sore ... but rest day tomorrow. image

    Oh, and I've had no carbs since last Friday, so the two 10.3 and 18.3 mile runs were done on an empty carb tank! image


  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Dan - soreness aside, it sounds like you are generally in pretty good shape if you are blasting out 5k times not achieved for a few years image

    Foot feels a lot better 3 days on, and I'm considering a short run tonight to test it out. Went to the physio at lunch - apparently there is no Achilles injury as such but I do have long 'floppy' claves, meaning that they need to be beefed up a bit by lots on heel dips etc


  • Andrew: I am sorry to hear you little blip especially after you were doing so well lets hope it is a short one.

    DT and Dan in Wales then they post about great racing times it is not a coincidence image

    Lake vyrnwy is a week Sunday race number arrived yesterday a double digit begining with a 2 wow I have never has such a low number ever.

    Tapering week 1 almost finished will end up on 46 miles but I have been achieving PB's and feeling very strong! 10.6 this morning which is the longest  before the race.

    DT good luck for Sunday's race!

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Managed 3 miles last night - felt very sore for the first 1/4 mile but I soon warmed up and it all felt fine by the end of the run. So fingers crossed .....

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sounds positive, Andrew. I tend to judge things like that based on how they feel in the morning?

    Good to see you rolling back the years, Dr Dan!

    Your taper would be a huge weeks mileage for me, WP.

    I have done back to back sessions on Tuesday and Wednesday. Tuesday was fine, but I found 5 miles at threshold hard going last night on tired legs. I'm glad I suffered it though as otherwise I would be doing it tonight which would limit my recovery for sunday. Looking at a light spin class tonight, as I find that really flushes my legs and then a light jog tomorrow and a rest day Saturday.

  • If I judged things on how I feel in the morning DT I'd probably never get out of bed!

    4 more last night, including some fartlekky sections, and all felt ok so will do the same tonight and the plan is for a parkrun on Saturday. Hoping to go faster than 2 weeks ago, so hoping for sub23 but still nothing spectacular.

  • I had a fab 10 miles yesterday a pb for route but today it was just 8 and legs were dead and wooden the trials and tribulations of tapering.

    DT: Next week is a lot lighter I am keeping all the days I run just a lot less distance.


    Andrew: Good luck tomorrow at parkrun.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    no, I mean, I judge whether I have aggravated anything on a run based on what it feels like the following morning once the adrenaline/endorphins have worn off.

    Good luck at parkrun.

    My half sunday has 474 ft of climbing so no great expectations.

  • Well parkrun exceeded my sub23 expectations. Finished in 22:16 so well sub23. Did a parkrun sandwich totalling 7 miles too. I'll do a mini report on Monday when I have access to a proper keyboard!

  • Well done Andrew on parkrunimageimage

    I ran 6 miles and it was a pb for course which is hilly-yayimage

    My race number for my 10k has arrivedimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Well done Andrew! image

    Looking good WP. Expecting to see some good times in those races.

    Hope the HM went well DT.

    After Wednesday's 18.3 miles, I did 21 mile on the bike Thursday plus 32 lengths front crawl ... I have a sprint Tri on Sunday but have only been running.

    ...then Friday was speed-work day, with 2 x 1 mile and 2 x 800m with 1 min rests

    6:15, 145/160 bpm
    6:21, 155/161
    3:05, 154/162
    3:10, 155/161

    Saturday rest and today was 6.2 miles with 4 miles tempo at 6:56/m.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sounds a good couple of sessions, Dr Dan.

    Today want better than expected. I took it very conservatively first 6 miles and was feeling strong so started to sniff a surprise pb chance. I starrted pushing on from them, came out 1.25.49 on watch so 30 seconds out in the end but with 489 foot of climbing and some headwind I'm still very pleased with that. It's my second fastest half. 

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    oh and well done yesterday, Andrew. 

  • Morning all – just a quick report on Saturday’s parkrun.

    I wasn’t too sure what time to aim for, or which parkrun to choose, until late last week when I decided upon Panshanger parkrun (near Hertford) and a time that was just better than my 23.02 two weeks previously. In truth, a few days ago I didn’t really think a parkrun would be possible at all given how my ankle felt.

    Saturday morning was lovely and sunny here (before the later rain arrived in the afternoon) and just a nice temperature for running. Panshanger is a very nice course, but the parking is a bit terrible being mainly street parking about half a mile away. Anyway, once I discovered where you had to park it was gone 8.45 and I needed to get a bit of a wriggle on to do some sort of a warm up and get to the start. In the end I managed 0.75 miles warm up and arrived at the start just as the briefing was commencing.

    There were lots more people at this parkrun than any I had done before (nearly 300 I see) so I wasn’t able to start anywhere near the start, which cost me not only about 3 seconds to cross the line, but also saw me a bit hemmed in behind some plodders over the first km. This was made worse by the fact that the first km is almost all up hill. However, I think I passed 1km in just over 7 minutes, so perhaps not doing my usual suicidal first km might have helped me in the long run!

    The rest of the course is pretty flat, or downhill, and is run through some very picturesque countryside. One slight annoyance was that the final quarter mile or so is along a single file track (so queue more frustration getting stuck behind someone who was flagging and therefore running a bit slower than I would ideally have wanted at that stage as I was cranking it up for the finish) before opening out onto the final 200m or so uphill to the funnel.

    Stopped the watch on 22.15, later rounded up to 22.16 in the results. 38th position. I then did just over 3 miles warm down to help make up some of the mileage I had lost earlier in the week, so did 7 for the day overall.

    All in all an enjoyable experience, and a venue that I would definitely return to. I think I could have squeaked under 22.00 had I started a bit further forward, not got stuck on the single file bit and if I’d have caned the finish a bit more than I did, but I’m not getting too greedy at this stage – just happy to be out ‘racing’ again.

    Hmmm, not that ‘quick’ a report after all!

  • PS - well done with the half DT. I presume that is a 'warm up' half before a target race (presumably on a flatter course)?

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