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Best interval training for half marathon?

I'm due to do a half marathon in March, and I'm looking to beat my 1.36 pb, but it's the one distance I struggle in compared with my other distances. I tend to go ok until about 9 miles and then my pace drops off, even though I run 40-50 miles a week. What interval training would be best for half marathon training- Thanks

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    Sol2Sol2 ✭✭✭
    Intervals can make you faster, but will generally not improve endurance, which is what you're looking for.



    I think a key question here is how fast are you running your mileage? If it's too fast, you will not be getting the aerobic benefits. Do you run doubles, because that won't help.



    Are you running long runs? 2-2.5hrs?
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    MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    What's the length and pace of your weekly long run?

    When you are looking to go sub 1:30 then getting in a few over distance long runs will help to build the endurance
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    It's not intervals you need. Let's see what those 40-50 look like I'm terms of each run and paces?

    Your mileage is more than high enough to give you sufficient base to not drift off in a half, unless you are starting way too fast. What are your other times/distances?

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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Long runs are between 13-15 miles at about 2 minutes slower than my 10k pace. I ran 14.5 miles today at average 9 minute mile. Ive added a 4 mile recovery run the day after my intervals and try to run this at below 140 heart rate so can be as slow as 9.30 to 10.00 minute miles. Is it that I know I can run sub 7 minute miles, I just need to train my body to sustain that pace?
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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Long runs are between 13-15 miles at about 2 minutes slower than my 10k pace. I ran 14.5 miles today at average 9 minute mile. Ive added a 4 mile recovery run the day after my intervals and try to run this at below 140 heart rate so can be as slow as 9.30 to 10.00 minute miles. I have been doing 5x5 mins intervals @ 10 mile pace with half recovery. Also a 6-8 mile tempo run which includes a 2 mile warm up and a park run which includes 2 mile warm up and warm down.
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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    times for distances are; 5k 19.30, 10k 40.14, 10 mile 68.03(2015), marathon 3.26 (2016).
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    MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    What pace is the 6-8 mile tempo run?
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    PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    If I'm trying to shift my fitness from 5k/10k to HM/marathon I tend to put more emphasis on continuous tempo runs or long tempo intervals, covering pace range: 10k/threshold/HM/marathon.  (Backed up with adequate overall mileage and long runs, but 15 miles is plenty for HM training.)

    Some specific suggestions:
    - "Threshold miles": mile reps with short (30 secs) recovery.  Start off with 4/5, work up to 6.  You should be able to run these inside HM pace (i.e. about threshold)
    - 3 x 2M, 90 secs recovery.  Similar pace to above, but you'll work harder holding the pace at the end of each rep.
    - Classic tempo run: ~4 miles @ threshold
    - Longer tempo run: 6/7 miles @ HM pace, up to 8-10 miles @ MP or a bit quicker, or even alternating miles @ MP/HMP
    - Progressive tempo run: mix up the above, e.g. 6 miles, starting at MP, working through HMP, last mile @ 10k pace. 

     The sessions which are HMP or quicker should make target HMP feel easier from the off. Longer sessions at HMP or slower teach you to keep your form for longer, and hold a pace on tired legs.

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    PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Also, whilst running LR's at an easy pace is good general advice, try the odd "fast finish" long run, maybe 1-in-3 leading up to a target race.  You might struggle to hit target HM pace, but 15 miles with something like 8 miles easy / 5 miles @ MP / 2 miles cool-down, again teaches you to keep form and a strong pace on tired legs.

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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    The tempo run is at my 10 mile pace which is around 6.45 - 6.50 at the moment. The first 2 miles I use as a easy pace warm up.
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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    I did a lot of fast finish long runs in my marathon training and it worked in that I didn't hit the wall and finished strongly in the marathon, so it definitely something I will try again. Thanks for all the advice I will use some of these workouts people have suggested.
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    RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    The advice you've been given for the information you've given is spot on.  You need to improve your aerobic running.  Your plan estimates that you're doing about 17-19 miles at below HMP, and everything else above HMP effort (I count warm ups and recoveries within a session as mileage at that session pace).  In a 40-50 mile week, based on the information I can see, you do more than 50% of your mileage above HMP effort (actually 10 mile pace effort and quicker).

    Your race results show that your paces drop more than someone who converts well up the distances, ie. more than someone who is well trained aerobically.

    The ideal would be for you to scrap all pace and run a similar mileage slowly.  But you've got a race in March so you're looking for a quick fix, and you're not suddenly going to increase your lower paces by a half minute per mile.  I would get rid of your goal pace for the HM, and use it to test a number of things which you will need to know for future races.  First is purely aerobic training for a few weeks - does it benefit you?  Second is running your race with no set pace, seeing if you can run to an even effort and what the result is on the timings - don't go off expecting to maintain sub7.  You could even see what happens if you warm up for the first ten miles and then run a 5k race.

    There is more information that could inform the answers you get.  How old are you.  How long have you been running to this plan.  How do you fuel your sessions.  What sort of terrain do you train over.  How often do you race.  What is your 'A' goal.  Nothing that will magically, definitely give you a sub-90 HM in March, but could help with advice for constant improvement.

    Best of luck with it!

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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    I'm 41 been running on and off for 10 years but really only been doing over 30 miles a week for the last 4 years. On long runs I tend to run hillyish routes (around 1000 ft elevation gain on 14 mile runs). I think my best training was for my marathon because I could understand that I needed hold back on my pace to train my body to train to burn fat more. Could I benefit from doing my runs other than intervals under a certain heart rate?
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    RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    I'm assuming from your latest answer that your plan has always been similarly structured, except when you increase your long runs and when you trained for the marathon?  That basically you always include intervals and tempo, and occasionally a 5k parkrun.  You could use HR to control your pace for aerobic benefit.  The problem?  A hilly environment.  When I trained to HR in my area I was sometimes walking up hills to keep the HR down, and sprinting down them to keep it up!  This is frustrating, but if you want to use HR to control the training, it's necessary.  Your comment on the local elevation also suggests the long runs could stray into occasional 'hard' territory if you don't keep the effort under control, so it's worth having something to slow you down on those.

    A slight quirk to your training which may provide benefits without you losing the hard runs like intervals would be if you ran long after the intervals instead of running recovery.  Run the recovery after the long.

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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    My marathon was following a 5 day 44-54 mile a week advanced plan that was different to what I'd done before with my other running as it was very structured and I think I trained smarter than I had before. I think my half marathon problems come from my 2nd one when I went off too fast and i struggled to finish.
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    read what Phil Pub wrote mate, you have been running long enough and have enough ability to now mix up your long runs.

     

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    RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    ...whilst not forgetting that PhilPub has 2.4x marathons and sub75 HMs so his training focus can afford to be a bit different as he's already got the base and the conversion.

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    PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    *ahem* 2:3x and attempting to gurn my way to a 2:2x pretty soon...  image

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    RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    That just shows how long it's been!!  I can't keep up, you're too fast! image

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    doesn't matter, he has run marathons previously and puts in the mileage to support what Phil Pub wrote.

    Asics sub 3:30 marathon plan with MP miles thrown into the long run, as an example:

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/images/asics/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub%203.30.pdf

     

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