Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Cal - I hope you do get that Yin yoga class, I really think it's so good for runners.
    No, I wouldn't give up dairy either, especially milk which I think is so good for us.   Nor would I give up gluten as too valuable a protein and restricts diet too much.
    You'd better get that packing done!   Enjoy your holiday.

    Big G - I think it's a matter of finding a reasonably healthy diet that suits the individual and is a well balanced diet covering all food groups.   Although I know some folk have adapted to low carb well and improved their running, it seems that for some of these it was the diet that enabled them to lose several stone in excess weight because when they eat carbs they can't control their eating and binge eat, also kept them away from junk food.  ( I'm not referring to Iain at all in this comment, definitely not overweight, and I'm sure not bingeing on junk food) ;)    The no/low carbs stop them doing that. 
    Interesting that the only fuel you took in your marathon was a few peanuts, nice to have some savoury choice.   I would carry one gel at London just in case you need it, it might turn hot and your needs might change.    I've noticed a lot of the 100 club who run marathons every weekend will run on water alone, not even taking electrolytes.   As long as you have some electrolytes you know that you'll be fine, I try and take on the minimum amount of fuel that I can in a marathon as I run better without my stomach dealing with too much stuff.   I don't use anything in a half marathon either but usually carry say 4 dates and if I have an energy dip at 9 or 10 miles I will probably use them then.

    Emmy - you will be fine, it will just seem like a long time since you stood on a marathon start line, hence an element of apprehension.
    Sorry to hear Rogue is being a bit of a madam due to her hormones!

    Iain Love said:
    Shades - I've got a HM this Sunday,  would it be wise to use it as a MP training run? 

    Iain - I know what you're like, you'd find it hard to not race, that competitive spirit of yours :) But if you want a MP run then fine, or if you feel fresh enough race it and use the finish time to set your planned pace for London.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Marathon List - please add/amend - sorry for any errors/omissions

    13th March
    Enigma - Milton Keynes
    Big G - PB 3:54:17 

    2nd April
    Manchester
    Cal - Goal C - PB (and course PB) - beat 4:44:37. Goal B - sub 4:30. Goal A (unlikely, but you never know, I have been running well) - sub 4:15. Bonus goal - get around without any walk breaks. tired_face
    Ian5 - 10789 - C-3:59:13(PB)  B-3:54;16 ;-) and A-3:45,would need wind behind me all the way.
    Steve - would like sub 3:10, but would be happy with sub 3:15 tbh
    NickW2 - Goal A - 3:15
    Taunton
    Shades

    9th April
    Paris
    SuzSaville82 - Goal A - sub 5, Goal B - to finish
    Rotterdam
    Emmy
    Brighton
    Louey

    23rd April
    London
    Big G
    Iain Love - Goal A 2:45 - 2:50, Goal B - a PB
    Slowkoala
    Southampton
    Jugula

    29th April
    Plym Trail
    Big G
    Shades

    1st May
    Belfast
    Shades

    7th May
    Great Welsh
    Shades

    13th May
    Marathon de Blaye
    mamafox - Goal - to win the wine

    14th May
    Hereford
    Shades

    21st May
    Worcester
    Shades

    27th May
    Kent
    Shades

    28th May
    Liverpool
    Cal
    Dorchester
    Shades
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    List updated with Ian's race number and Suz's target time.

    Iain - I think sub 2:45 is a bit harsh so have amended your targets too, hope that's OK.

    Big G - you know what the next race to go on the list will be, but I'm holding fire until you say that you are definitely going to do it.  ;)

    mowzer - how is that foot?
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Mamafox: love your goal to win the wine!! 
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Shades - 2:45 is quite a steep jump but I know I am capable.. Since I've looked positively at my racing capabilities I've gone from strength to strength.. 
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Shades - Thank you for updating my goals on your list.. you've perfectly covered goals A,B and C there!

    Emmy - Yep, that prize is a real incentive for me. We are talking about 24 bottles here.. had a lovely daydream on my run yesterday. Was thinking of what I'd wear on the podium, how I'd accept the wine, how would I carry it away etc etc.. Most enjoyable. There's obviously the small matter of how I'm going to pull off 42km at 4:50 pace but we'll talk about that nearer the time  :p

    Suz - Great long run there, well done.

    Cal - Have a fab time in Dubai. Don't pull any muscles or get whiplash or somethong on those rollercoasters mind you.

    Shades - That's satisfying that your Yin yoga sorted your quad problem as a result of hip work!

    Iain - I had to Google biltong. Never tried anything like that.

    SK - +1 for the white limb group!

    I have decided to try and chip in to the P&D 12wk plan again. I tried to follow it last Spring but my injury flared up so I abandoned it. Am jumping in at week 9. The mileage part is fine, the speed work is a bit of a shocker though!
    Had a bit of a scare yesterday. Was laughing at Mr Fox as he struggled to put his work boots on (he is not very supple), so swung my foot on to the kitchen table and proceeded to show him how I can put my head on my foot. There was an almighty crack from my knee - it sounded like a pistol going off - and I had to drop my foot to the floor immediately. However, nothing drastic seems to have happened. There is a bit of a lump on the side of it this morning and it is a bit sore but I can run on it ok. What's all that about? How can my knee make such a terrible sound but still seem to work? It's a mystery.

    On a non running note my eldest son has gone on a school trip to Ireland. It is quite hot here at the moment and he has packed sunglasses, chinos, tshirts etc. I have pointed out that in my (limited) experience it rains in Ireland. I have only been once, to Dublin then up to visit my friend Monica in Enniskillen and it rained every single day. He is refusing to believe me and tried to leave his winter coat behind when he got on the bus. I had to run after him waving it and forced him to shove it in his bag. He was not happy but I know he'll thank me for it when he gets into Rosslare tonight.
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Mamafox - a lot of brits struggle to get their heads around the fact it is actually raw meat but it is cured and a huge delicacy.. High in protein and a great snack for runners.. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Iain - obviously I'm not Shades,  but I think so yes.

    Re: gels - I stopped using them for halves and it hasn't hurt me at all. I will use them for the marathon though, purely because I don't eat breakfast so I'll need 'em. Gels are about the only things I can stomach when I run.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Gels - Yeah not a fan either, I can stomach one, but then they make me feel rubbish if I have more than one. I might take one to Manchester just in case. Don't use anything for a HM, apart from water at aid stations, so long as I have had breakfast I'm fine for HM distance.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - I'll post number up soon, but for goals, I'd go with A=3:10, B=3:15 and C=3:20
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    I think my body would dis-own me if had a gel. Thankfully I can have a nice block of cheese and some nuts before a race and I'm ready and that will see me through the marathon. 
  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    Hi Shadies -I'm continuing to keep up with all your posts. Great to hear all your plans for the next couple of months :) .
    My foot is still sore on the top and occasionally in other parts too as they try to compensate for my hobbling. Regret to say I've done nothing to keep my fitness up  :s
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Just had an email from runners world saying congratulations you've been promoted to level 3 whatever that means!
    When I saw congratulations I thought maybe I had won a competition or something, don't know why as I haven't entered one!
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    8 miles tonight on just under 68 minutes and felt pretty good. Interesting discussion about carbs, I have a varied and quite balanced diet, not much meat because I'm not that keen on it and until recently hardly any bread but since I started working out doors again I've been taking sandwiches a few times a week with burgen linseed and soya bread, not sure if there is a link or just coincidence but I seem to feel pretty sluggish. As I write this I have a feeling I may have already posted it, or I may have imagined that I did, senile old git that I am! 
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    Mamafox - I'm glad it's not just me who has weird daydreams while running! My knees make weird crunching sounds when I do squats. I hope your husband was impressed at your suppleness!

    Shades - good idea re fake tan! I have some of that moisturiser with it in, so definitely need to start applying.

    Mowzer - that sounds really frustrating. Is there anything you can do to help recovery? Have you been to see anyone?

    Re gels, I haven't taken any on training runs this year but decided I should try for my race last Sunday. I took 3 at 5/10/15 miles. Not sure if they helped, but I seemed to have more energy than usual (although could have been race adrenaline). I'll probably take 3-4 at London.

    Our club has had an email from one of the London hospitals who are doing research about cardio health and vet lady runners. They are looking for volunteers and I'm quite tempted as you get a full heart MOT - echocardiogram, Cardiopulmonary exercise testing, electocardiagram, blood test, 24 hr heart monitor, Cardiac Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) Scan plus  Computerized Tomography (CT) coronary angiogram. I don't really like the idea of the MRI though plus I'm a bit scared that with all those tests they'd be bound to find something! Also, you're supposed to have been running for 10+ years.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Call those weird? I guess you wouldn't want to hear about my cyborg assassin fantasy then. :lol:
    SK - that's crepitus. My knees sound like that. I think it's pretty normal once you get beyond a certain age.

    I would have rested today had it been a normal week, but since I'm off to Dubai this afternoon I had to squeeze in one more run. Despite being a beautiful morning, the amount of fatigue in my legs made it less enjoyable than it should have been so I just did the minimum 4 miles. I guess this is exactly how I'm meant to feel going into my taper. :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    The cardio health thing sounds interesting SK.  Do you think you'll go of it?

    Mowzer, sorry to hear you're foot is still no good.  Maybe see a physic about it if you can?

    Shades, yeah I know what the next race is on your list - the Dartmoor Discovery.  I'm in two minds still at the moment.  I was thinking the other day that 10-miles with cramp was bad enough, but 16 and those hills?!  Not sure yet....

    I did 6 yesterday and 7 this morning, and enjoyed both runs.  I'm going on a stag do tonight so I'd imagine it'll be an enforced rest day tomorrow, and then Tavy 13 on Sunday.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    mamafox - hope that knee is OK, must have been a scary/funny moment.   They do say to ignore any noise from joints, don't they  ;)
    Your lucky son will be in Ireland for St Patricks Day :)  Doubt it will be sunny and warm though, probably the same as the UK.    I did once run 3 marathons in Ireland on consecutive days and they were all over 30 degrees, by the third day the tarmac melted and ruined my shoes, had to ditch them as I couldn't get the tar off.

    Iain - I find cheese quite good before a race too.   A gel would be such a shock to your system.   I've seen quite a few recipes for protein bites that can be eaten during a marathon, with a little dried fruit for a small amount of carbs.

    Steve - I've noted your goals , will amend on next update.
    What do you use for fuel during a marathon?

    mowzer - sorry to hear you're still in pain.   Do you think it's time to visit a physio for a diagnosis, I think maybe you need to check if it's a stress fracture.

    Jugula - no idea what Level 3 is, I've had a few of those emails, thankfully they've stopped.
    I love that soya and linseed bread, yummy.   Maybe you need a bit more protein too now that you're doing manual work and if you've increased carbs you will need more water to drink too.

    SK - 3 or 4 gels in a marathon is about right I think.   I never understand those runners on the start line with 8 or 10 gels on their belt.
    That's an interesting medical study, quite thorough too.   You either need to have medical insurance or  serious symptoms to get an MRI on the NHS, so it's a good opportunity for a decent check up but I expect they're only going to look at your heart.   And in the highly unlikely chance they did find something then you'd be referred to be fixed, instead of a few years down the line when it could be more serious.
    How many years have you been running?

    Lovely run this morning, a bit chilly but beautiful moon again.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - For Brighton I used Eat Natural Cranberry and Dark Chocolate bars...very nice and worked but obviously the chocolate had started to melt by the time I had it, think I used 2 during Brighton.

    Recovery 6 miles today, average HR of 124 bpm, which is only the second time I've kept it that low, but the previous time was a minute a mile slower and also 2 miles shorter!!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - that's the only problem with chocolate when it's warm.    I have used Minstrels in a race and they do hold together a bit longer than standard chocolate.
    At Snowdonia marathon they used to give out pieces of chopped up Mars Bars at about 14 miles, sometimes it was so cold you couldn't get your teeth into them. 

    Wow, your low HR and faster time just shows how well your training has gone.  :)
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    SK - No, I didn't impress my OH at all. The cracking noise happened before I was able to finish (He thought I'd done something to the kitchen table). I am actually capable of putting my head on my foot but, in hindsight, this is at the end of a stretching session where I've gradually built things up as opposed to doing it "cold". I don't think it was my joints, more like a ligament or tendon or something. My knee is a bit stiff and I have a small lump on the outside which is a bit sore but other than that it's suspiciously normal.  Not doing that again in a hurry.
    Those tests sound exhaustive. I would definitely want to have them to see what they turn up with.

    Regarding my daydreaming, I think I am the queen of head ramblings. Once I am into my stride I often go off on one for ages and don't notice the miles passing. On long runs I get quite annoyed when I "come round" sometimes and start thinking about aching feet/ how much I've got left to run etc.

    Mowzer - I really hope your foot injury is sorted soon. You must be going up the walls. I think it's the first time I remember you having an injury which is amazing considering all the racing you do.

    Shades - Three marathons on the trot in 30 degree heat sounds like a complete nightmare. I hope it isn't that hot in Ireland this week.. just couldn't bear the "I told you so"'. Haven't had any news as to how St Patrick day has gone. Not sure if this a good or bad thing.

    Had a good 18k run today and managed to keep to new paces without too much trouble. Foot a bit sore but nothing as bad as it used to be. Just realised I have counted the weeks on the plan wrongly (mixed up week 1 and race week which confused me) which means I'm actually on week 8. This now means I am forbidden to do the 27k with 16k at MP which was down for this Sunday and will have to now do a normal long run without any MP.

    That's a shame  :D
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Shades - most people think that when I say I'm doing a low carb diet the automatically think I said no carb. I do enjoy it during a long run, after consuming a small amount of carbs, my body makes the change from glycogen to fat as fuel. It's like I've pressed a turbo boost button and I feel like the Hulk on a rampage. I will eat baked potatoes with cheese and cream before London.. 
    I went out yesterday and just couldn't get into my run,  I had tight heavy legs and just couldn't get my flo. I called it quits at just over 5 miles.. Good my HM goes better.. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    mamafox - talking about tests, did you go back for your blood test?
    I think if that cracking noise had come from a ligament or tendon you'd be in a lot more pain. 
    Good luck with P & D plan, last time you started it when still struggling with your injury but this time you've already built up a strong base so hopefully it should be easier.   Shame you have to miss that MP run this weekend.... a lucky escape I think ;)
    So 4:50 a km would be a biggish PB for you?
    I think your son being in Ireland for the first time on St Patrick's Day will have him thinking that it's a hell of a place to party.

    Iain - have you decided about how to run your HM, race it or MP run?


    Rest day for me today as I have a half marathon tomorrow, although I could go for a run I've decided to rest.    I want to do a Hadd test very soon, so did think maybe I could do a short one with the lowest 3 heart rates, but I heard the wind howling so that's out, need still conditions for a Hadd test.
    Am now deliberating whether to wear my Guide 9's in tomorrow's race, I've worn GTS Adrenaline's for every race in the last 15 years so a big decision for me.   However, my foot strike has changed a bit with my chronic foot issue over the last couple of years and I have changed the type of some of my training shoes.    Of course if the Guides are a success in my half then I'll want to try them in a marathon, then I'll need more shoes.   I have 3 pairs of GTS, 2 unused, one about halfway through it's life, but of course I could always them for training.  I find the Guides particularly good on hills, hence my pondering. :/
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    Shades - I'd give the Guides a try! It's the only way of knowing for sure how you'll race in them and they seem to be working well for you. Is it a hilly HM? 15 years is a lomg time time have stuck with the GTS, you must be one of their most loyal customers!

    I decided to get some new Boston boosts as want to have time to wear them in before London. I wanted to support a local shop but when I tried them (the new 6 version which are really comfy), they only had them in a new pastel blue colour which I didn't fancy. Interestingly though, the guy said it's worth buying them up as they are having to put up the price of loads of shoes in July due to how weak the pound is vs the dollar. The Bostons are going up to 150 pounds (from 100 pounds now!!) I got them online for 65, which is still more than I usually pay!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Good luck with tomorrow's race.
    Still no running here,been a week now.Seems to be the bit between inside shin and calf,went to run before but could feel it aching straight away,feels like I may be able to run for it but will wait for the race if needs be.Off to Rome on Tuesday for a few days so lots of walking to keep some fitness,bit wary about how I'll get on at Manchester if I can't get more runs in,this is 1 of the reasons I wanted to do the track race.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    SK - thanks, yes I've decided to give the Guides a go.   It is a hilly race, 1300 feet climb and as the last 5 miles are supposed to be flat/downhill that means the first 8 miles will be quite tough.   The downhills might be steep too, I find the Guides very good on steep hills, my foot doesn't move in the shoe.
    Big G has done the race before, I haven't.
    Ouch to the price increase on the shoes, but probably 99% of our running shoes are imported.   Pity you didn't like the pastel blue, back to the internet then.
    I've already checked the price of the Guides should after tomorrow race decide to stock up.   The 9's are £59.90 at Start Fitness.

    Ian5 - so sorry to hear that shin soreness has turned into an injury.   A pair of knee high compression socks might help with the recovery especially as you'll be on your feet in Rome.   Don't worry about what runs you think you need to do before Manchester, training takes 3 weeks to have any effect.   Focus on getting rid of the injury.
  • Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Shades - not yet decided yet.. I want to race but then again I can't afford an injury seeing it is a trail half.. I'll probably make a final decision on the start line. Good luck with your race tomorrow.. 
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    SK, £150 that's painful! I'm looking around for another pair of Brooks Ravenna 7's but am waiting until they drop the price a bit more, currently £75.
    I ran 13.25 this morning in just under 1:58, too fast and I felt tired from the off but I had it in my head to run it quickly and common sense wasn't going to get in the way. Cranleigh 21 next Sunday which I will take easy then a month until Southampton after which I think I'll have a rest as I feel pretty tired.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Iain - I didn't realise it was a trail half that you were doing tomorrow, maybe best at MP then, but as you say decide when you're on the start line.

    Jugula - I've seen the older Ravenna's cheaper than that but I guess you have a preference for the 7's.
    I'm not surprised you're tired, switching to a more manual job is bound to have an effect on you.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Cheers for the advice, just been and picked some up,hopefully they will help.
    Good luck to all the racers tomorrow.
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