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RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00
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Nick- I'll track you tomorrow. Do well. Don't set off too fast. Be great. You will be. (good to hear your wife is on board with future marathon endeavours)
washwood- how is your training going?
DA- I did Manchester last year and it was proper distance though was short year before. It will be right distance for Nick tomorrow.
This week I've had a bit of easy running and a few real speed workouts.
Thursday I did a 4k race put on by my school as a fundraiser. My time was 16:53 and it measured just a tiny bit long. I was pretty chuffed with that. Watch said 6:37 min/mile pace for 2.55 miles.
Today I did parkrun in 21:44. A course I hadn't been to before. I felt I could have been a bit faster had it not been for the race on Thursday night too. But really enjoyed today and came 2nd lady. Paced it well with mile one 6:58 and mile 2 and 3 7:02, so didn't lose a lot of speed. Last .13 miles was all guns blazing sprint finish.
Tomorrow another 20 miler with a clubmate. Will be thinking of Nick and hope you do well.
Hope you're all having a good weekend.
Today I did my second 20 miler of the campaign.
10 miles on my own at 9:30-9:40 pace, then met a clubmate for the second 10 miles. We ran the second 10 miles at 9:00-9:15 min/mile and it felt easy enough to pick up the pace. Last mile in 8:26 so was positive I still had lots of energy for the end of the run.
Felt surprisingly good after. Not too achy and was able to walk a couple of miles around town doing a few things after the run. Really enjoyed being out on such a lovely sunny Spring day and feeling positive for how my training is going. How has everyone's weekend been?
The day before wasn't ideal prep, I was at a family christening in the morning in Brighton, so drive there in morning, then standing around for a couple of hours, then 4 hr drive up to Manchester. Thankfully I didn't have to do any of the driving and it all went pretty smoothly - my Mum and stepdad drove us as they were coming to watch as well (and visit my sister who lives near Manchester). Options for dinner were limited so I went for a nice (mild) curry with my wife. Then had a rubbish night's sleep, the hotel where we stayed had a generator or something that kept going on and off. It took me ages to get to sleep and I probably only got about 5 hours. This made me a bit apprehensive about how today would go but I don't think it affected me really.
I got the tram into Manchester (we stayed in Sale) which was easy and quick, arriving about 730am. I didn't want to leave it too late after stories of previous baggage nightmares, though this side of things all went very smoothly and I could easily have arrived an hour later and had no trouble. The only thing that did occur to me was that if it had been raining, there wasn't much cover about. But that wasn't a problem - conditions were pretty much perfect.
I met up with a club mate briefly, and then also met up with a few people from the Manchester thread which was nice, so the wait seemed to pass quickly. We headed up to the start pens, I was in C but you could easily have started wherever you wanted. I positioned myself not far behind the 3:15 pacer and noticed that the 3:29 pacer was roughly level with him but off to the side.
My plan was to go out at a pace that felt comfortable, that I hoped would be around 3:15 pace, and hold on as long as possible. After the gun went off there was a bit of an awkward shuffle, the starting areas were quite wide, then it narrows just before the line and widens again so everyone had a bit of breathing room when starting. There were a fair few elbows out to get to the narrow bit first though! I noted that the 3:15 pacer started around 30 secs before me, and he was in sight once I started. The start was slightly downhill and I eased into what felt like the right pace, which looking at my watch was pretty much spot on.
The first 3 miles were fairly sparsely supported once we got away from the start area, being mainly around residential streets and having a few turns, and I just focused on settling into a rhythm. I did this quite well, 7:30, 7:29, 7:27 (3:15 pace is 7:26-27). After 3 miles you go back past the start almost, then the next 3 miles are a fairly straight section towards Sale. I had found my rhythm well, these were 7:27, 7:25, 7:27 and felt comfortable. I was slightly concerned that the pacer had disappeared but from checking at the mile splits I knew my watch was measuring slightly short so I was actually ahead of pace if the markers were correct.
I saw my family just after mile 6, as planned, which was a nice boost and I was feeling great so got some good pics of me smiling and waving. The next few miles twisted around Sale a bit, but I was going really well at this point, without realising I sped up a little, 7:20, 7:16, 7:20, then 7:27 on another straight section as I was wary of going too fast and consciously slowed sown a touch to go through 10 miles in just over 74 mins, about 15-20 secs ahead of 3:15 pace. The pacer was still out of sight though (on a long straight section). I had a gel at mile 7 as planned and managed to get the top off easily (unusual for me - managed this fine all day, I think it's because normally I have cold hands!)
The next few miles were fairly uneventful, there's a bit going into Altrincham where I saw the leaders coming back the other way, gel at mile 12, then through half way in around 1:36:30ish (1:36:53 on Garmin which was measuring a couple of hundred metres short by this point) which would be a PB by about a minute. Miles 11-16 were 7:24, 7:24, 7:18, 7:24, 7:35, 7:44. I noticed at mile 16 that I wasn't measuring short any more so figured that might be why it was slightly slower on the watch. However, although I didn't think I was working harder, I did start noticing my breathing around 15 miles and figured I was probably starting to tire slightly.
Saw my family again between 16 and 17, which was great. Still felt ok although I was slowing slightly, next 3 miles in 7:34, 7:46, 7:33. Then mile 20 was a 7:54 to go through in 2:29:41. I knew 3:15 pace was just under 2:29 and didn't feel I had it in me to increase the pace so I knew 3:15 was pretty much gone at this point. However I still thought my B target of 3:20 was very much on as I didn't feel too bad and it "only" needed a 50 minute 10k from here so I tried to hold on to approx 8 min miles and mile 21 was exactly that.
After this point it all started going wrong though. I began to get intermittent cramp in one of my calves (I forget which), and everything started feeling much more like hard work. I took my last gel around this point, gritted my teeth and tried to hang on. But next 2 miles came in 8:17 and 8:29, and cramps were getting more frequent, now in both calves. Mile 24 in 8:59, now everything hurting and feel like even 3:25 is in danger, and had a short walk after getting some water, and another time had to stop to stretch a cramping groin, which made mile 25 10:08. For comparison, that's slower than my slowest mile in my 3:59 at London last year! For the last mile I just concentrated on keeping moving, 9:31 but felt like it took about half an hour, then managed a dash for the line giving it everything with 7:07 pace for the last 0.2, with lots of things complaining. Stopped my watch at 3:25:02, hobbled out of the finish funnel, stretched and felt a bit better, waddled over to the finish area, had a photo taken, got my goodie bag, picked up my bag (all went very smoothly), then checked on my phone and saw I'd gained 3 seconds, much happier ending in :59 than :02!
All in all I am really happy with how it went. Honestly I felt 3:15 was potentially achievable, at 10 miles I tried to assess how I felt and was thinking if this was a half I would be looking to up the pace and kick on. Even at 20 I didn't feel too bad, but the wheels came off a bit with the cramps. I'm not sure if this was due to a lack of long runs (and miles in general) or a fuelling issue (maybe need to take on something salty when I sweat a lot?), probably a bit of both.
Ali - great 20 mile run. So good that you felt strong at the end. You seem to be in a good place with your training and the winter cross country has clearly made you much stronger.
So my last weekend before the big race. 8.5 miles yesterday and my plan said at race pace. Now I set myself an ambitious goal when I set the plan so it has been based around a 3:30 goal time. But I do not feel confident enough to chase this. I have pushed teh pace over the short runs and been able to match the plan but have found teh longer runs tough due to being tired after a long week of work. So yesterday I said to myself that I would run slower than teh plan at a more realistic race pace but found myself running at 7:50 min per mile. Now it was a lovely day and I nailed this. felt good all day afterwards.
But now my dilemma. What pace to race at. My head is telling me to be sensible and that anything faster than 8.15 min miling will end up a car crash. My running little buddy inside me says that a faster race is possible. I started this specific journey saying a decent time is good enough. Have not done enough training and work has taken its own toll so chasing a PB is not an option.
So between now and the weekend I need to get my head sorted so that I stand on the start line with a clear plan. A decent time .... what might that be .....
Good luck choosing a target time...if 7:50 felt like MP then I'm sure 3:30 is possible...but it might hurt.
Yeah my half PB looks really soft now lol. So does my 10k to be fair, have beaten than during an 8 mile tempo. Unfortunately I'm not sure I'll get to a "proper" race for a few months. Will try and get to some parkruns tho and have a club 1 mile race in 7 weeks that I'd like to have a good go at.
Carl good luck deciding, I think I have a similar decision in a few weeks what pace to target. Probably setting off more conservative is the sensible and less painful option and push on in the 2nd half if you have it in you. You've had a break from marathon racing which may work in your favour too.
Nick congratulations, any marathon finish line is a fantastic achievement but a 35 minute PB is bloody awesome and a credit to all the hard work over the year since London. Great race the beauty of the marathon is we can't do them as we would 5k, 10k or even half marathon, it's an accumulation of months of training and looking after ourselves (or lack of) and as soon a we finish one we start thinking about the next one. Cramp happens as you said could be hydration, could be training but something to learn from I got it at Brighton 2 years ago and roadrunner last year and missed out on targets because of it.
p.s don;t rest up, go celebrate drink beer, eat crap and once you've had enough repeat!!!
I had Friday off work, decided to do my long run so it gives me 9 days before my next run, I set off thinking 22 miles slow at about 9 min miles, after a couple of miles decided to run 20 with miles and miles 7-17 at marathon pace. It was flat along the river and back and only 300ml bottle of water and 3 gels but had my best run of the year averaging the target 10 miles at 8.15 pace and overall average for the 20 miles at 8.29 ace which is PB marathon pace. I got back and Mrs R was pissed off that I hadn't done any of the housework so she kinda pissed on my parade but once I had recovered and had a bite to eat I couldn't believe how good the run was. I am nowhere near as fit as I was for my PB 18 month ago or last year but am starting to believe if all goes well in MK I may scrape a PB.
I'm also considering a 5k race to try and get a PB (21.32) on good friday in Victoria park (east london) nice and flat.
You sound like you've got your mojo back a bit, a few good runs recently.
Carl any plans in terms of eating in Brighton? I can recommend an Italian if you're looking for a carb feast Donatello's based in the lanes.
Few runs this week, Tuesday before work 9.6 miles mixed undulations on road and off road, Wednesday got home after work did some housework then forced myself out for 7 miles then last night 9 miles alternating between 8 and 9 min miles.
Mojo is there or there abouts, would like to be feeling better about my running at this moment in time however I feel that I have done the minimum required for a marathon (subject to this weekends 20-22 and next weekends 16-18 LSR) just hope its enough come 1st May.
Carl - good luck this weekend!
Rob- it's Edinburgh I'm doing but it's the week after Stirling so you were pretty close
Carl- good luck for Brighton- we can't wait to hear all about it.
It's school holidays here which is great so for my first few days I went to see a friend in London. While there I did some running. Mostly easy runs as I didn't really know where I was going and was just going out for exploratory jogs rather than anything serious. Tuesday I did 7.5 miles in the city, along the shore of the Thames. It was really fun to see some key touristy points though it was really too busy for running if I'm honest. Packed with people!
Wednesday I decided to get in my LSR while I was in London just for the sake of being somewhere different which is enjoyable. I have done 20 miles the last two weekends so this week I had planned to cut it back and do 15 miles to let the legs recover a little. So did that mid week instead of weekend which is a treat I guess as I don't have the weekend LSR to contend with! I did the first 7 miles very slow, but did 4 faster miles in the middle for variety. 8:28, 8:13, 7:59, 7:58 I think. They felt tough but easier as I got going and into a rhythm.
Yesterday I did 6.5 miles, again, nice and easy along the canals in Hackney and then to Victoria Park which was lovely. Really enjoyed running somewhere different and new though I must say you definitely feel the difference in quality of air in London. It feels a bit heavier/dirtier I think and you can smell the traffic fumes everywhere you go if you're in town.
I'm back in Scotland now and not sure what to do this weekend seen as I've already done my LSR!
I am heading down to Brighton this afternoon as I have to pick up my race number. Real pain that they do not send them out. Staying in Gatwick overnight and getting a bus to the start area in teh morning. So some pasta after picking up the race number will go down a treat.
Nick - enjoy the break
Ali - enjoy the hols.
So it is the day before. Training is done. 432 miles over 68 runs. it is now down to how I feel on the start line tomorrow. This was another busy week at work. With the promise of sunshine (it should be a few degrees cooler on the seafront in Brighton than London) I will reign it in a bit at the start. I am not chasing a PB but just want a decent performance.
Will let you know how it goes ....
Nick, well done on a fantastic marathon !! fabulous effort.
Ali you are running so well at the moment ! I forget which marathon you are doing but Im sure you will smash it
Carl All the best tomorrow, look forward to hearing how you get on !
I am about to start 2 week taper .... with a half marathon tomorrow ..... I am under strict instruction to just pace it at marathon pace though
Running has been going well, seem to be getting quite zippy over the short stuff howeverr remains to be seen how I do over the long stuff .... legs are so tired
Washwood looks like you had a sensible race 2 weeks out, hope the taper terrors aren't too bad.
Sundays run went from a slow 22 miles to 18 miles to 16.2 miles, with the heat cut the long run down, slow 9.10 pace and tracked runners on Brighton app on the phone, took a few photos. Got a call from Mrs R to say she was only a couple of miles away and suggested meet and walk back with her on her trot. Stopped my run at 16.2 but then did another 4 miles with her at 13/14 min mile average run walk along the river.
Race no. for MK has arrived and taper begins!!! Not quite as well trained as I'd like but not too far away. Have my race plan sorted in my head just need to get to the start line and for it to happen.
Hope all had a good weekend!
Couple of runs this week trying to get used to running at different marathon paces, yesterday 9 miles with middle 5 at 8.15 then today tad over 5 miles at around 8.30.
Friday 5k... I hate these things and have no idea why i enter them or how my legs will feel pushing sub 7 min miles. Guessing what will happen mile 1 6.30 mile 2 be blowing and try and hold on to 7 mins and 3rd mile blow up completely missing out on 21.30 pb.
My plan if works 6.45x2+7.15 then 45 secs for 0.1 = 21.15 small pb :-)
Agreed on the cups thing. Do not understand it myself. They are almost impossible to drink from and when running in teh hear you want a bottle that you can sip from. I think they let themselves down here and there are stories about them running out of water on the latter stages for those runners towards teh back of the field. Not on imo. The other weird thing was the fact that there was no segregation down the last 2 miles of the promenade. There were some cones but no marshalls so you had people crossing in front of you all the time. At this stage with tired legs and being slightly delirious that is not what you need.
Getting a feel for marathon pace is a good idea and enjoy the 5k.
I have done no running since Sunday and will probably go for a trot on Friday to see how the legs are coping.
Nick – very well done indeed for Manchester. How many gels and how much water did you take on board for the whole race, this and possibly sweating out the salt, would probably be the reason for the cramps. How many runs each week during the training did you end up running ? Terrific running though and a big PB. You’ve definitely got a faster race in you so I’m sure you can crack the 3:15.
Carl – well done to you mate as well. Those pesky few seconds obviously mean you will be back for more in the future ! Considering how busy work has been the last couple of years and having to get the family/work/running balance that is a great performance. And the heat and the hills as well. Do you think you benefitted not having your watch for the last few miles ? (I ran my second [short] marathon at Manchester without a watch from the start and it benefitted me as I as running to feel and ended up with a quicker time).
Rob – good luck for MK. Having not been on here for a while I’ve obviously missed a lot but it doesn’t sound like you are feeling in PB shape ? Probably all that extra housework you’re being forced to do !!
Ali – it’s as though I’ve not been away from here with all your talk of good, long runs and feeling in good shape. Your target for Edinburgh ?
I've been busy starting my new job and so far so good. As far as first weeks go it's been pretty good as I've been able to get involved in some real work rather than just read the company literature on health and safety etc.
I have still done very little running and I am trying to convince myself to enter a race in the Autumn in the hope that that will motivate me to get myself out there and running. After not much running in the last 12 months I can't decide what to do but the current thought is to enter a 50 miler in October then go for another marathon next Spring. With the injury issues I've had over the last 12 months (ITB and shin splints) this could all go pear shaped so I'm reluctant to enter anything until nearer the time. In the meantime I hope to just get out and run without putting too much pressure on myself to train for a particular event
Carl - annoying to be close to sub 3:30 but I've heard it was really hot so a great run in the conditions, even more so considering you haven't managed to train as much as you would have liked. Certainly sounds like you pushed yourself to the limit on the day which is all you can ask.
Rob - good luck in your 5k. I think it's a good race to have in the taper - try to pace it well...
carter - thanks, I am pleased with how the race went overall although obviously would have preferred to not get cramps! I had 4 of the high 5 caffeine gels, not sure how much water exactly but think I had enough. My gut feel is that I should probably have eaten more salty food the day before and then would have been fine, but it's something you learn by experience I suppose. Also could have just been muscles getting tired. If you have specific events in mind, is it an idea to train for them but not enter until nearer the time? Or do they sell out early? This way you get the focus but if it goes pear shaped you haven't lost anything? I did this with a half last summer (ramathon) and ended up not entering as I'd not got enough training in and the weekend was really hot so wouldn't have been fun.
Am in the car on the way back from skiing, was good fun and still in one piece, looking forward to getting some runs in