Suspicious VMLM results...

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  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    Just a heads up for you all - the inaugural Stirling Marathon takes place on 21st May.  17 - 26 miles consists of 2 and a bit laps of the city centre.  There are timing mats, and the organisers (Great Run) say that anyone who doesn't cross the mats the requisite number of times will have their times "adjusted", but I'm sure if you get in quick when the chip timings are released, you could have a shedload of fun.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    One of my club mates DNF'd at Manchester this year. I'm not sure of the full details, but he said he went to the DNF area at the finish and gave them his chip/number, but they either made him walk through the finish chute or scanned it or something. Anyway, someone cocked up somewhere as I'm told the tracking website briefly said he'd won the race! It was soon corrected though.
  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    There's also a loop round the university between 11.5 and 13 miles that could be an opportunity to cut a bit out.
  • rodeofliprodeoflip ✭✭✭
    Keep going Nessie, you'll soon have this down to a 10k
  • How do these "runners " manage to cheat? There are crowd control barriers along both sides of the route and down the centre of the highway, not to mention a few hundred thousand members of the public watching, surely someone must see what's happening and inform the stewards!
  • GladragsGladrags ✭✭✭

    DW - there aren't barriers the whole way though? There are gaps everywhere and large sections wihtout barriers. It's easy for a runner to duck off the course - many do to use loos in pubs etc - once in the crowd it's up to the runner what they do next?

    The LM have got much better at spotting these guys and many of these results will be removed over the next week or so. I did the same exercise last year and all but one was eventually disqualified - the one that wasn't was an ex services guy whose charity group had been photographed with SAmantha Camerfon before the event (!)

    The timing chips are so accurate now that missing even one mat must open you up to scrutiny.

  • Ex-services? Was that Dave Reading by any chance?
  • The running in high heels thing was clearly a gimmick (or con depending on how you look at it). She only ran 7 miles in the heels so I am willing to bet it was the first time she had run that far in them meaning the training photos were faked. She never denied that ste had to take the shoes off but she will have been sponsored a fair bit on a false premise.
  • Oddly though, despite all the publicity and the soft porn calendar she never reached her fundraising target.
  • GladragsGladrags ✭✭✭

    Just found the thread from last year.... the one suspicious result which didn;t earn a disqualification was....

    L Rowley, runner 55366. Running at 31/32 minute 5k split in the first half to give a time of 2h11 at halfway, he then fails to register at the 25k mat in Docklands before resurfacing at 30k in Canary Wharf.

    Agree it's not the most cunning of shortcuts, he's not done the full Tommy shortcut at Tower Bridge - but he 'ran' the missing 9k in 39 minutes which gives an average of 4m20 second/km - a 5k speed of around 22 minutes.

    And yet his speed then drops down to 34m and 35m for the next 5k splits....

    It gives him an 11 minute negative split!

  • MrTimMrTim ✭✭
    "> @rodeoflip said:

    > Let's face it, there's loads of cheating goes on, and the vast majority of it isn't by accident. Has anyone here ever had a timing chip fail and then miraculously start working again later? Ever? "
    --------------------------

    I have actually experienced that a couple of times in triathlons, where it's bloody annoying because you end up not getting times for one or more of the disciplines (like it doesn't record you going in or out of the first transition, so all you know is the swim, getting changed and the bike took a total of 2 hours 5 or whatever with no further breakdown). Not suggesting it is conveniently happening en mass here, but it does happen!
  • I've just spotted a friend of a friend on Facebook posing with his medal so being a nosy type checked his results. His number doesn't match his name and is a dns, but I searched his name and he got an excellent resultsl with a different number. Checked out the photos and it's not him who ran the time which would have got him a gfa (and a massive show off on Facebook!) Am guessing it was a number swap to ensure a gfa? I wouldn't mind but he runs for a club which came out very, very well from London this year!

    Not important really but annoying as I had to work vvvvv hard to cling on to my gfa this year. Grrr.
  • Interesting point about the DNFs. To get your bag back you have to go into the secure area, and pretty much the only way in that's obvious is across the finish line - you might not realise, if you're not a regular runner that you'd have to go round the side of the timing mats to avoid getting a finish time. And the marshals would have no way of knowing you were a DNF, to point you that way, you'd just be another runner with a number.
  • GladragsGladrags ✭✭✭

    there are actually a number of runners whose chips stop working and then start again who don't raise any suspicions - the splits they have recorded are consistent and in some case their are official photos of the 'missing' chunks - so it can happen.

    The DNFs though - even if you do somehow end up on the Mall and find yourself crossing the official line - it's then up to you what you do with that isn't it? It's never too late to own up. (although to be honest if you do pull out of the race, how you could accidentally rejoin anywhere in the last mile isbeyond me?

  • MrTimMrTim ✭✭
    I suspect most of them don't really consider themselves to be "cheating" as such. The ones grabbing GFA spots or qualifying for other races etc obviously are, but those crossing the line in 24,353rd etc after having to pull out mid-race are mostly just saving face (especially if they've had loads of people sponsor them) and/or are thinking "Feck it, I've paid for that goody bag. I'm bloody having it". Doesn't occur to them anyone will notice or care about a random mid-pack finisher not having done it all properly.
  • vixstar1 said:
    I've just spotted a friend of a friend on Facebook posing with his medal so being a nosy type checked his results. His number doesn't match his name and is a dns, but I searched his name and he got an excellent resultsl with a different number. Checked out the photos and it's not him who ran the time which would have got him a gfa (and a massive show off on Facebook!) Am guessing it was a number swap to ensure a gfa? I wouldn't mind but he runs for a club which came out very, very well from London this year!

    Not important really but annoying as I had to work vvvvv hard to cling on to my gfa this year. Grrr.
    Grass them up. Especially if they're a club runner. How he has the gall to brag about it when he didn't run it? What a nob. 
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    Anyone who cheats  and claims a "Good for Age" should be outed.

    But we shouldn't be publicly shaming other people where we don't know any of the back story.  That American guy (who's presumably making lots of money from his Marathon Investigations website and media appearances) seems to have started out doing a good job, identifying people "stealing" treasured GFA places in Boston and other marathons by cheating - but now seems to relish in shaming anyone who takes a medal that they seem not to be eligible for - especially if they then put pictures up on facebook. 

    OK.. but he doesn't know their personal story. Maybe the bereavement that drove them to take up the marathon challenge in the first place. Depression etc.  The guy is, IMO, turning into a leach, and although I just publicised his website, I implore people who don't know it, not to bother.  It's entertaining for a few minutes (e.g. pictures of supposed women being photographed on course.. with a beard etc)  but the titillation soon wears off, and I was left feeling sorry I'd ever fallen for his click-bait.
  • Runner 35546 appears to be a solicitor in the Nottingham area. Would love to know how he produced such a negative split. Just hope for his sake that he can explain difference especially as he is celebrating with medal in photos. Not just an integrity issue. 
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    35546 had got to be cheating. In the first half, every 5k is getting slower and he goes halfway in 2:29. But then misses some mats and finished in 4:01, so a huge negative split.
  • rodeofliprodeoflip ✭✭✭
    If someone wants to cheat in order to finish or improve their time, then I find that pretty sad and pointless - the medal doesn't really mean anything unless you've earned it, and they'll always know inside that they didn't. Makes the whole exercise pretty pointless, but it doesn't really affect me one way or t'other.

    I do think though that where someone is rewarded for cheating, then they should definitely be outed. Claiming a GFA place or a qualification time (e.g.- for Boston) is just denying someone else that opportunity, and taking it away from someone who has probably earned it. Where cheating has occurred, and this is obvious or can easily be confirmed, then the cheat should be disqualified from the event permanently and I'd like to think that if they're in a running club then the club wouldn't really want them any longer either.

    They may well have a reason, but that doesn't make it ok. And timing chips may fail, but funny how this always seems to happen just when there's a shortcut available, and the splits in this area always seem inconsistent with the rest of their race. 99% of people push themselves to the limit to run a marathon and are rightly proud of their achievement. I have no sympathy with these muppets, and unfortunately until the race directors get tough with these guys, it's going to keep happening. Maybe VLM should have a "hall of shame" on their website?
  • He took less than 30 minutes to get from halfway to the 35k mat, which coincidentally are almost opposite each other on either side of the Highway, so it's pretty obvious what happened.

    As for the marathon investigations site, to be fair I think most of the problems are down to others trolling the people with dodgy times or photos.  Most of the cases he finds don't get highlighted on the site, just the most blatant ones, like the guy who posted on facebook that at the boston marathon he thought his wife deserved a medal so he took a second one for her.

  • It's not like it's compulsory to have a pic taken with your medal. If you haven't earned it - why the heck would you pose with it ?  I very rarely choose to go for that picture.   He's clearly an idiot. 
  • GladragsGladrags ✭✭✭

    see - I don't agree that it's only the GFA or BQ times that should be queried. those who cheat and achieve midpack times are equally as bad IMO because they have wasted a ballot or golden bond place that could have gone to someone who deserved it.

    The cheating solicitor is interesting. His splits are so blatant. His justgiving page says he and his partner are running VLM. But there is no result at all registered to her name...


  • http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8171665

    Similar themed thread on another website which identifies several of the same people.
  • Cheating is cheating and it's not just themselves that miss out as has been said - what about all of those hoping to get a place through the ballot?

    I do agree that getting a GFA time - especially for someone else! is even worse and for a club runner to do so is inexcusable in my book.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • ah... so you're the phantom flan flinger!
    lets be honest.... its all prep for an Ironman on my 100th birthday
  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    vixstar1 said:
    I've just spotted a friend of a friend on Facebook posing with his medal so being a nosy type checked his results. His number doesn't match his name and is a dns, but I searched his name and he got an excellent resultsl with a different number. Checked out the photos and it's not him who ran the time which would have got him a gfa (and a massive show off on Facebook!) Am guessing it was a number swap to ensure a gfa? I wouldn't mind but he runs for a club which came out very, very well from London this year!

    Not important really but annoying as I had to work vvvvv hard to cling on to my gfa this year. Grrr.
    I'm confused.

    If the photos of the person running in his name are of someone else, perhaps the other person just happens to share his name and got a legitimate GFA for himself.  I mean, why would you run a marathon in a GFA time to give someone else the credit?

    If his number is a DNS, presumably that means it was never collected. But then how would he have got a medal?  Maybe his chip didn't work at all, so didn't register at the start line (hence the DNS). But then, if his number is in someone else's name, perhaps he printed it himself.....

    All very odd.

  • Just to add to the DNF and bag collection point...I DNF'd this year at London. My body gave up the ghost at mile 16 and I could not be motivated to either walk to the end or get public transport to collect my bag (my bag just had a jumper in it that I didn't really want to chuck away at the start). I thought my bag would just be thrown away or the jumper given to charity, but lo and behold, I have just come home and it has been delivered to my flat! Obviously, if you put valuables in the bag or more important things, you would need to go to the finish and get it, but something worth noting if you are more ambivalent and don't want to cross the finish line (whether by accident or otherwise).
  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭
    I notice 35546, the lawyer, was running for Barnardo's and has a JG page. I wonder whether the charity would be bothered with the cheating:
    https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/Bens-running-London
    His firm are clearly very proud of how hard he has trained:
    https://www.geldards.com/geldards-lawyer-dons-trainers-for-firms-charity.aspx

    Do these people not get tracked by friends/family/work colleagues?!!

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