P&D Autumn Marathon 2017



  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Lots of tri talk on here........usual suspects. Good luck tonight Reg and after all that training you have put in Joe a podium spot is the least we expect at the weekend.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Morning all. Out the door at 4:30 for a tempo run this morning. 11 miles with 7 @ LT. Struggled to hit anything special pacewise but was happy with consistency of mile splits: 5:52, 5:49, 5:51, 5:52, 5:52, 5:50, 5:49. Felt like a hardish /decent workout to start the day! Have a good one....
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Tom - Sounds like a good effort at 4:30am if you ask me!!
    Reg - Good luck tonight.
    Joe - Good luck at the tri.
    HA - I understand what you mean about the 5k/10k thing.....racing those distances, especially 5k is so tough!!
  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    Impressive Summer/Autumn racing plans there Macca, two 100 mile races in the space of a few months is some going.

    What tyres do you use on your bike RSR? They are obviously pretty good. I've not had a single puncture since i put Gatorskins on my bike 3 years ago. I haven't done a great deal of mileage either though I suppose.

    Well done on the PB's JohnOz. Flat out for your half is my vote.

    Hope you enjoyed the day off Joe. Well done on the trail race and good luck for the tri this weekend.

    Glad to hear you got VLM sorted Jooligan.

    Nice training PJFrizzle, sounds like an entertaining cycle commute.

    Well done on the TT last night Reg, and good luck for whatever you decide to go for this weekend.

    Solid training as always Tom.

    Well done on the double session HA, you're in great shape to be starting the next mara campaign in.

    Hope you're enjoying the recovery AWC.

    Nice training Millsy.

    Don't know what your ultra distance is NE but a 22 hour target time makes me shudder.

    Not a great deal to report here, still plodding away. Legs are very tired and stiff as to be expected. Hopefully should start seeing some improvements next week, or at least that's what happened in January when I made a similar come back. Just looking forward to an easy run actually feeling easy again!  :)
  • John - Nice work on the speedier stuff. I hope Kawauchi can do well at the Worlds, what an amazing runner. This recent post on Japan Running News makes for amazing reading - 23 sub-2:12 marathons!

    Tom/Joe - Velothon Wales this Sunday. 140 km, not too worried about the distance but the hills are going to be hard work!

    Nice target Reg. Glad to hear the running is going better, touch wood.

    Glad to hear you got your GFA troubles sorted Jooligan.

    Nice session HA, must have been tough at lunchtime is this weather! 

    Good luck in Norwich on Sunday Joe. Given your improvements this year, I’m sure you’ll smash it!

    AlanB - I use Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons (which are the ones that have never punctured, touch wood) on my normal wheels and GP4000S II on my aero wheels. 

    Great running from everyone else.

    I’ve taken things very easy this week, just five milers to keep the legs ticking over. Had a lovely sunny final club ride on Wednesday, keeping the effort nice and gentle. 

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Classic Tom run that, well done.

    Thanks for the well wishes on the TT, it was a bit of a manic evening. My wife got stuck in London so I had to quickly cycle over to pick up my daughters, feed them and drive to a train station to collect the wife. By the time I'd got organised and arrived at the TT start I had no time for a warm up and my legs were a little jaded form a lunch run.

    Still managed to equal my PB 21:52 but was the second fastest in the club with my rival doing 21:51! With a proper warm up and preparation I had hoped to go closer to 21:30 but I shouldn't be too annoyed as I still got the Vets trophy. Probably by a few minutes.

    I seem to have a cold now, had a sore throat appear as I went to bed and a runny nose. Bodes well for this weekend!
  • Thanks for the vote of confidence guys but I think the podium might be slightly out of reach on Sunday, there are always some really quick guys. I'd like to improve on my 9th if possible though. Interestingly my race number is 11 which means I submitted the 11th fastest predicted time. 

    Really pacey run there Tom, what a great start to a Friday. 

    HA - all seems to be working well at the moment for you. Big believer of training the mind as well as the body - think the camp gave me much more mentally than it did physically, hoping to call on some of that during the race.

    AlanB - always takes a couple of weeks to get back into the swing of it, but I'm sure the improvements will come soon enough and you'll start feeling good again.

    Spoons - sorry I'd forgotten you were doing that, you did already say. Good luck with it! I did the inaugural one two years ago - there's a report about it on my blog if you want to check it out. 

    Reg - cracking effort in the TT. are you sure you couldn't have found that second? latex tubes? shaved legs? good luck in Tenby this weekend, I know loads of people heading over there. You must be setting off fairly soon. Don't push it too hard!

    Easy run last night, easy-ish swim this morning, hoping to go into Sunday relatively fresh. I've written a blog on my big training week if anyone fancies a read;

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Bloody hell Reg that's superspeed & particularly impressive after your ridiculous day's prep.
    Hope the sore throat is just your body's sandbagging defence. Good luck at LCW

    Back on form I'd say Tom. What time do you go to bed, 8pm?

    Feel the same way Alan - struggled to finish yesterday's 12.5K trail run inside 8m/m average.

    Have fun with the Velothon Spoons - the climbs aren't too bad just Caerphilly Mtn (9 mins with only one cleat) & the Tumble, 25 minutes & it's done though. I believe there're feed stops at the top of both too.

    Best of luck for the w/e JB. Just read the blog and am suitably impressed by the effort again. The mental battles are such a key part of endurance events. Don't be surprised if Sunday's race isn't as spectacular as you'd like since Camp Spragg's fatigue will still be with you probably - though you do seem to possess exceptional powers of recovery. Benefits of youth I guess. I'm sure the gains will be felt at Outlaw though.

  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    Good effort guys.

    75miles with I think 8300ft of elevation... mainly lots of undulation (highest peak is 900ft).
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Great work on the Vet trophy Reg. Hope the sore throat sorts itself out. 

    JB, all the best for your triathlon, you have been putting in some immense training so deserve a good result. 

    Tom, looks like you are back in business with the early morning sub 6 min mile runs. 

    Jools, looks like some solid training and racing on Strava. Glad to see you have the GFA stuff sorted.

    i made my track debut this afternoon. The longest men's race was 3000m so I was looking forward to seeing what sort of pace I could do. Managed 10:35 which I was delighted with. Didn't come last and was only lapped by a couple of youths. Was then asked if I could do the 1500m (1hr later) which was probably the most nervous I've ever been at any race in my 8 years of running. Again, I didn't come last and avoided getting lapped. Finished in 5:03 so was delighted with that. 
    Back to the 50k training tomorrow although my Achilles' tendons are in bits. 
  • Evening all. Looking for a bit of advice around the P&D 55-70 training plan.

    I followed the plan previously and marathon day went well up to around mile 18 where I started to slow and then mile 20 where I really crashed. I would probably say I started having to dig in from around mile 14.

    I feel that my problems were to do with fatigue rather than glycogen levels although I can't really say for sure. Heart rate

    I'm repeating the 55-70 plan for an autumn marathon, and it's tough but going well so far - last time I came up short on the mileage on a few of the weeks.

    Hoping for some thoughts on how to possibly avoid this come autumn? Did I just overdo the pace from the start?
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Hi THM3, not sure what went wrong but maybe look at the pace of your long runs. My main issue with my first few races was that I was racing too many of my easy runs so was too fatigued by race day. 
    Pacing could also be an issue, what were you aiming for compared to your other race PB's ? 
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Nice one Reg after such a hectic day. 

    Solid track racing Millsy and did well to double up with another impressive run. 

    THM3 - how did you find the sessions last time? Generally the LT and MP paced LRs seem to be the ones to nail. 

    First proper LR today for a while and happy that it went better than expected. 17 miles and even managed to get down to 7mm pace without it being too hard. Hope that is a good indicator of base fitness when i start P&D in a couple of weeks 

    Good luck Joe today. 
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Morning all.

    I wonder how Reg and Joe are getting on. ...

    Surprised and very impressed to hear about your track exploits Millsy. Great stuff! 

    It will come Alan-all in good time-you will start feeling really good again.

    Welcome THM3. It could have been any number of things that didnt go to plan. Not sure. What were your training/race paces during the last campaign?

    Nice Long run John. Looks like you are ready. 

    17 for me too this morning and I struggled a bit with the heat but was still able to hold 6:35 m/m pace so happy enough. I do prefer running when it's cool though!
  • Thanks for the feedback guys.

    Millsy - Pace was consistent through to 18 miles at around 03:10 pace - 7:10/mi. 10k PB was sitting at a few seconds under 41 mins from one of the tune up races. The only runs feeling really easy during the training were the recovery runs.

    JohnOz - LT runs all went to plan. MP runs always felt tough. All of these were run around the middle of the prescribed HR ranges given in the Advanced Marathoning book.

    Tom13 - Training paces were all HR so quite varied. Only raced 10K during the training under one of the plans tune up races and pace for that was about 6:30/mi.

    18mi with 10mi at MP completed this morning - pretty warm out there.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    So you didn't go off too quickly in the mara then THM3? Sorry, I know very little about HR but many on here do so they will be able to advise you. Well done on getting that MP run done-tough workout that....especially in the conditions!
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Nice long run John. A good place to start the plan. 
    Tom, that's a decent paced long run in the heat. 
    THM3- when I first did P&D I struggled to hit the required pace on the long, MLR and GA runs. I made sure I hit the paces of the prescribed sessions but did everything else at an easier pace. It stopped me getting burnt out too early. 

    17.5 hot miles for me. Tired legs from yesterday took a while to warm up. 57.5 miles for the week. 
    Looking forward to my rest day tomorrow. 
  • Good evening all, thanks for the support - it really helps.

    I'm slowly getting back, started with a little 2.5m test last Sunday and now up to 6m. I'm getting a bit tired from about 3m onwards, but it's a start. Onwards and upwards. I joined a gym today in an attempt to build back some muscle, I feel squidgy. I floated around in the pool and used the steam room/ sauna after my run, but will head to a HIIT class tomorrow to do some proper work.  

    Some great long runs on here already - well done to Tom, Millsy, John and THM, it was baking here and I'm in the north. Is it cooler for you now John? My family have all been moaning about the cold further south. 

    THM - what makes you think it wasn't fuel based? Sounds like classic running out of juice to me.

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Some great LRs today.
    Just the 3.7M for me today with over 1800ft of climb. 2nd PW of the w/e but only 3 mins from my best which was all lost on the main climb & always done the 2 races the other way round before so I've had parkrun as a warm-up for Pen-y-Fan rather than coming off the back of parkrun & 10.4M fell race. Definitely prefer it the other way round but then I'm usually fitter. Enjoyed today far more than yesterday probably because it was so short :)
  • 17m seems popular today, well done guys. I squeezed one in first thing, my longest traing run since March I think.  It took about 8 miles to warm up but felt good to get some mileage in the bag.

    Well done on the [email protected] THM3.  Seems early for that sessiom but then I think I saw Tom post the hardest session from the plan the other day, [email protected], and I dont think his plan has started yet ;)

    Well done on those climbs Jooligan. Having walked them I cant imagine racing them, would love to give it a go one day though.

    Well done JCG - slowly slowly catchy monkey and all that.

    Looking forward to reading about the rest of this weekends racing.

  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Glad to see that you are keeping active JCG, variety is great and before you know it you'll be training and racing again. And yes the cold weather has definitely hit, last week I did 2 runs with gloves, which I've never done before! It's "only" 5C but feels really biting, at least the sun has been out all week so once you are running it's great. 

    Good to see you're enjoying the racing more Jooligan

    I'm also using the opportunity to go after a few local strava segments as a way to get in some random speed. Found it tough at my first go at the weekend and saw on my watch I was about 15s off so stopped for a breather. Later checked on strava to find I was almost 90s off so at least I know next time I need to keep running through the end of the segment, would have been gutted if I had actually got the CR! Left achilles is also a bit tender, can't feel it when I'm running but afterwards I know that it's there. May back off speed sessions for this week or at least do them on grass. Also tossing up whether I jump straight into week 7 of the 18 week plan rather than do the 12 week plan, since I'm already had a 60 mile week. The early weeks are all base building anyway so should be able to pick it up.

  • Great long runs John, Tom, Millsy, Macca and THM - welcome! 

    Really good to see you getting back into it Coops, ease back in steadily and before you know it, it'll all come flooding back. 

    Had a decent day at yesterdays Norwich olympic distance triathlon. It was my last tune-up event before the Outlaw which is now quite scarily just 13 days away. I was 9th last year in 2 hours 13 minutes, so any improvement on that was the main aim. 

    We went to Wimbledon parkrun on Saturday, I ran a controlled 18.50ish whilst Katie PB'd yet again with 20.47 despite intending to 'run easy' after her 16 mile long run the day before. Joker.

    Early alarm on the Sunday (4.45am - so not Tom early but quite early for us normal people), beautiful day, not too hot, great conditions. 

    Swim - 26 minutes, a couple of minutes quicker than last year. I came out of the water in 15th place, a real novelty for me as I'm used to being a bit further back.

    Bike - 1:01, 3 minutes faster than last year. Decided to ride right on the limit and push from the start. Picked off people one by one, but worryingly was cramping in both my calves and my quads - not something I've experienced in a triathlon before. I had to freewheel a couple of times to stretch out the legs. Clocked the 3rd fastest bike split, and I'd ridden my way up to 3rd overall. 

    Run - I'm always excited getting on to the run, as I know it's the place I'm most likely to make up some time. It was really odd getting to transition and seeing so few bikes racked. I moved into 2nd about a mile into the run, but at the end of the first lap of two learnt from my Mum that 1st was a good 4 minutes up the road - a big gap to haul in over 5km. From that point I decided not to absolutely bury myself with the Outlaw in mind, and made sure no one was sneaking up on me from behind. I ended up running 37.08 for the 10km run, which was the fastest run of the day by a good minute and a half. 

    I was ecstatic with a 2nd place finish and total time of 2 hours 7, a 6 minute improvement on 12 months previously. The icing on the cake was Katie finishing 8th overall in the sprint distance, winning her AG (along with a little trophy) in her first ever triathlon! Not only that, she took another 20 seconds off her 5km PB, after an hour of swimming and biking beforehand!! Ridiculous. She ran 20.25 on an accurate course, which was just 1 second off the female course record for the run.

    Hope everyone had a good weekend. Look forward to hearing about how Reg and Spoons got on.  
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Joe: fantastic performance Joe and good idea not to completely rinse yourself in the run with the big one in a couple of weeks. Your swimming seems to be improving really well. Well done to Katie as well - she really is coming along strongly.

    I got out for a couple of runs over the weekend. Legs are starting to come back to me a bit but still feeling a bit heavy. Luckily I've got until the start of August before my P&D plan starts.
  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    Welcome THM.

    Congrats Joe, another phenomenal performance and very decent improvement on last year. Great racing from Katie too, your good form is obviously rubbing off.

    It may be two PWs Jooligan but I'm sure all that racing will be helping get you back in to shape a bit quicker.

    Great idea for extra motivation with the Strava pot-hunting JohnOz.

    Good to see lots of folk starting to build the long runs already.

    Scores on the board so far..

    Week No.  1 2
    No. of Runs 8 9
    Miles 72 88
    Ave pace (min/mile) 07:19 07:15
    Aerobic Efficiency (bts/mile, Ave) 1049 1033
    Long Run (distance & pace) 16 miles @ 7:34's 18 miles @ 7:15's

    Not a great deal of progress so far, as expected, but things are moving in the right direction. Going to try and stick to the same route every week for the long run to track improvements a bit easier.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Well done Joe and Katie-fantastic performances from both of you!

    Building very nicely Alan. Big miles being banked!

    6 miles easy this morning. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Awesome stuff Joe. You must've still been carrying some fatigue from the week before too, so very impressive. Any prizes this time? Great to see Katie going so well too. It's been a great few months for her. 

    Good that you're getting back into it AWC. 

    That's some solid mileage Alan. 

    Some good long runs too over the weekend. 

    I seem to have caught Reg's sore throat. Felt shit when I started today but got into it more as I went along and did the hill session ok. When I went to start the 5k progression post hills, I didn't have anything couldn't even get down to 6:30/mile. I just kept it steadyish back to work. I think I need to get more sleep. Might have a couple of days off and see how I feel on Thursday.
  • jtcedjtced ✭✭✭
    OK, I bought the book and have now switched across to the P&D 12/55 plan for the remainder of my training in the run up to Loch Ness (24/9, target time 4:15) and then onto Marathon van Gent (28/10, target time 4:00).

    Biggest challenge has been dovetailing my higher mileage (~40-45mpw) into the P&D 12/55 first couple of weeks.  Fortunately the mileages are close, so I should be okay.  
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Welcome to the P&D plan Jtced.

    Alan - You appear to set yourself high standards form the off, I'd say that's a great start.

    Sounds promising AWC

    Just to be clear I have been nowhere near HA's throat.

    Great long runs everyone else.

    Joe - Great performance there and even more impressive from Katie. Excited to see how you go in Nottingham. I think you should be aiming to sneak into the top 10.

    Talking of which I managed to get through the Long Course Weekend, even doing the full marathon. The swim went as planned, if a touch quicker in 1:06. The bike 5:35 on a very hill course and a hot hilly marathon in 3:13. I finished in 9:55 in 7th place overall.

    I did a rather long report on another thread in case anyone has some time to kill but it feels too self indulgent to post it twice.


  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    Great stuff Katie.  Not bad from your other half too.
    Look after that ankle John.
    jcted... welcome
    Reg... not many of your posts don't have a smile in them somewhere! Great tri too.

    Failed to have the big weekend I'd planned.  Just got one 3hr run in.  I suppose I ran the hills a bit harder than normal but I was surprisingly knacked for the rest of the day, and today too!  Not great for confidence but I'm hoping it's one of those bad days that happen from time to time.   It's supposed to be taper-time now, but hoping to still get some good long walk-runs in next weekend.
  • Fantastic result Joe and Katie too. Well done on the fastest run of the day, by some margin.

    Enjoyed the report Reg, and a great result too.  Over three days sounds like a much more civilised way of approaching a tri, almost makes me want to do one.

    Alan, some good number and encouraging progress so early on.

    Well done on the purchase jtced, just try and follow the principles if the mileages dont exactly add up.

    HA - hope a few days rest does the trick.

    NE - Good effort on the 3hr run.  Maybe the marathon still in the legs somewhere ? I've been out for 10mile runs and thought how will I ever string ten of these together...but you can and will.

    Hopefully squeeze some sort of run in today, the excitement of not knowing.
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