The Middle Ground

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  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    DT19 adaptation happens during recovery so your break will allow even more fitness to come through :) Great run!

    Andrew probably just a bug. Nothing to worry about at this stage.

    Alehouse you really know how to do rehab properly dont you! Sound space age.

    I am still full of cold so taking a rest day today. Race tomorrow evening which I was a shoe-in for a good pb and we are likely to win the womens team prize (usually relatively decent stuff as well), so typical. Hopefully will feel better tomorrow. I was also on for my first 50 mile week for a long time this week, but clearly my body has other ideas!
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Get well soon Curly!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Get well soon Curly - hope you are still able to race.

    I did 4 miles this evening which felt a bit better than Tuesday, but still not right.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    I am going to race, but still not feeling 100%. Need to race because team competition. The perils of being Captain ;) I should still be able to get a pb. I went through 7k last Sunday in about the sort of time I would like to run tonight so we shall see. It is multi terrain though so not sure which shoes to go with. One of those days when one needs retractable spikes!

    Sorry to hear you arent feeling great Andrew. Rest day might be the answer...
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    I went out this afternoon with no fixed plan in mind other than to run by feel for (hopefully) 5 miles.

    Warm up mile felt good (8:47) so decided to push it to marathon pace (which I guessed to be around 8m/m pace) but even that felt easy so I did miles 2 & 3 in 7:38 and 7:34. Think this works out to be around HMP or just a bit slower than that. Looking to cash in on actually feeling reasonably decent I thought I'd push the next mile at tempo pace and actually ran a bit quicker than that (7:07). Did a hilly warm down mile (8:50) and felt very relieved to finally bag a decent run after a horror week of runs.

    Cricket tomorrow (weather permitting).
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Nice work Andrew sounds like maybe just a bug that needed shaking out!

    I had a good race last night, scored first for our team (which won!) and was 10th woman overall I think. Was just over my A goal time of sub 28 with 28:07, but given how I have been feeling this week and that the start/finish was on grass this year (its a multi terrain race anyway, but the grass finish is particularly bumpy) I am pretty happy with that.

    Over 1pb anyway, but most interesting for me given upcoming races was the huge 3k pb. I went off hard last night so faded pretty badly after 5k but looks good for 3000m in a few weeks.

    I have a relay race on Tuesday where I have to run 3 x 1k loops (off road again). My best there is 3:52 so I should smash that as well :)

    Cold is on its way out and I'm off to look at a bike. All looking good here at the moment.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Well done, Curly. I'm trying to work out the distance from the time?

    Andrew, sounds like a big that's pretty much clearer.

    10k for me this morning. I only went as id seen last year's results and noted the v35 prize went in 40.xx. A clubmate turned up who is around my level but v45. There is a 5k race going on at same time so you don't quite know where you are until after 5k. We both settled into 5th and 6th after about 2 miles. At the 5k finish line the guy in 4th (who was pretty close to us) peeled off leaving me in 4th with clubmate on my shoulder. The first 3 were way ahead. As there was no double dipping on prizes we knew we were well placed in 4th and 5th. My clubmate stuck with me until 4.5 miles then suddenly fell off pace on a long drag into a strong headwind. I knew he'd beat me in a Sprint finish so decided to capitalise on his apparent mid race crisis and put a surge in to put 15 meters between us. The gap between us and next guy didn't alter in closing stages so held on for 4th and 2nd v35 but pick up the prize as first v35 was 2nd. Time wasn't brilliant (39.45 on watch) but it measured 6.27 and it was an airfield so strong headwinds, however I have never been in a 'race' for position situation like that and found my mentality was swayed from chasing a time on my watch to working smart to hold position. 

    Decent morning out. 
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Andrew - good to hear!

    Well done on the races and podiums Curly & DT.

    Despite cut back and carbs, I didn't feel very rested and ended up with an under par 20:42 at parkrun. 20 planned for tomorrow.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Well done DT19!

    My race was 7K - sorry should have said that...they allowed double dipping on our race so one lady got second, first v35 and first local lady. Dont begrudge though - if thats the rules I have no problem with it. And despite being 10th lady I was probably 8th v35 ;)
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    20 miles done at 8:26/mi and 70% maxHR. Probably the easiest 20 I have done to date, although was still glad it was over.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Good racing all round! Great long run from Dan too.

    5 easy miles for me this morning in 8:57 pace.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I managed 15 at 7.55 pace. Didn't feel like I run yesterday, let alone raced. I'm 0.6 miles short of my highest ever mileage month, which was March 2015. Guess I'll be doing an unplanned recovery run tomorrow!

    excellent long running, Dr Dan. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Has to be done DT - I'm only 2.5 short of my highest mileage month in a year, so will also squeezing something short in tomorrow!
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Dr. Dan that is some great long run!

    And you too DT19 wow - I dont think I have ever done a long run with pace starting with 7 (except a raced marathon of course).

    12 for me at 9:15 pace :p Feeling better but still not 100%. Really pleased with Other Half though - the new weights routine is definitely increasing his strength over the longer stuff (already only a few weeks in!). He has struggled previously with poor mechanics meaning lack of ability to run long comfortably. Positive signs for the winter's marathon training :)

    Love the highest mileage stuff - I am at my lowest for years. Still running pbs though! I blame cycling, weights and ballet, and spirit work. Not chasing miles at the moment, but will have to add some more soon as you cant do marathons that way...
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    In fact, so long as I get in more than 2.5 miles this evening it will be my highest monthly mileage since February 2016!

    Well done Mr Curly. Poor mechanics probably is the root cause of a lot of problems for most runners and is something we should all address more than we do.

    Watched the documentary on Jess, Greg and Mo last night. Farah's weekly mileage is apparently 120 - the mind boggles how he keeps that up year in, year out.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    You can't do it all, Curly, otherwise injury and exhaustion await.

    7.55 pace is about right, it's a minute or so slower than Mara pace. 

    Good news for Mr Curly. I started doing bodypump once a week after London and also lots of press ups and I feel better for it. Managed to get to 100 Friday night. 

    Andrew, I was chatting on a friends Facebook post this morning about mileage and a friend of his pops up saying he had run 110 last week and averages 100 a week. This is a man with a full time job. This morning he was up at 6am for 13 then had 6 planned tonight to kick the week off! At least with pro athletes everything is on a plate for them to absorb it and rest.

    Got to gym, every treadmill in use for first time ever. Went outside and did 1.2 miles before spin class then followed up with bodypump.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Yes, when I was watching it I did remark to my wife that Farah must spend half his life with masseurs, in the gym, eating right or just sleeping! Your friend of a friend sounds crazy! I presume he doesn't also have a family life to try and squeeze in?!

    4 miles for me last night - first three very comfortable at 8.5x pace, so I eased it up a bit in the last mile which ended around 8.00 pace.

    Circumstances mean rest days today and tomorrow.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Andrew, He has two children younger than mine!! He isn't any ordinary local runner mind, he won this years Brighton marathon. I guess he is sub-elite. That very awkward level when you have to train very hard but also work full time etc.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Good going Curly - with all the cross-training and variety, you can get away with lower mileage. I really should do some strength work ... really starting to notice getting weaker in the last couple of years as old age bites.

    I managed 168 miles running and 173 miles cycling in July - 36.5 hours which is my highest training volume since last August. Actually, it's my highest run mileage since Sept 2014.

    Well done of the 4 Andrew ... enjoy the rest.

    DT - nice recovery for that 15 miler - looking good. You'll be banging out teh 100s soon enough! ;-)

    Today was 10.6 miles at 7:50/mi ... same route and pace as last week but 9 bpm higher heart rate. Mrs Dan was feeling rough this morning so I wonder whether something is on the way for me... alternatively, perhaps my type I fibers are still fried from Sunday's 20 so I ended up working more type IIa than usual? Either way, it's 10.6@MP run number 4 in the bag.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Well done Dan (although 10.6 at MP is very precise - is this in the plan, or just what the route worked out to be?). maybe take it easy for a day or two until you see if a virus comes out or not?

    Plenty of 'recent best mileage' months going on then. My challenge is to maintain it, or increase it slightly in August and beyond ....

    DT - I suppose it a difficult (and probably very frustrating) level to be at - very good but not good enough o earn a living from it. Must have a very understanding wife!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Andrew - it's 1.3 miles to the first mile marker on the canal. Then I run out 4 miles ... and back.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Yes I often wonder how men who are sub elite plan their lives (especially if their partner doesnt run and kids are young), they seem to do lots of VERY early mornings. Must have greater powers of recovery - which was something parkrunfan always used to say. What can differentiate the very good from average can be the ability to adapt in the recovery phase and thus be ready for the next session sooner.

    Nice run Dr. Dan - hopefully heart rate is just fatigue and not bugs. Do you get bothered by bikes on the canal?

    On strength work - I am off today to test my suitability for a study at St Mary's on the benefits of strength work to runners.

    DT19 Spin after running followed by bodypump sounds tough!

    Andrew good plan, consistent consistency is the way forward!

    Club women's only relay last night (there is a men's one at the same time). 1k loops, and as a nominated fast runner, I do three of them. The race is trail and grass and has a small hill so I was very pleased with laps 1,3 & 5:
    3:34, 3:46, 3:45

    I pushed hard on the first one and eased off a bit for the other two. Previous best on that course was 3:56!
    I'll need 3:40 for my target time at the 3000m on 19th August so that looks doable. I have the road 5k before that which is hilly. I'll need to have a think about a target for that...I've never run sub 20 around there so think thats a good start, but cant help feeling I should be pushing myself a little more.


  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Great running Curly - looking very good for your 3000m. Good luck with the study ... I looked into volunteering for one here on the same topic but I was too old :s . My brother and wife went to St Mary's many moons ago and still live around the corner. I went to a Shotokhan club there for a year ... I also spent a chunk of my stag night there too :D

    Run commute day ... always a grind.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Well done on the 10k lap race curly.

    The run was only 1.2 miles. I needed 0.6 for highest mileage month. Spin and pump are a classic combo.

    I recall reading an article on Steve Way and he credited a phenomenal ability to recover from huge sessions over night, as one key reason for his ability. 

    I'm in lanzarote now for two weeks, so limited running. Going to try and get an easy 5 miles in every other day to tick over. 
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Enjoy the hols DT19! I can imagine its pretty hot at the moment over there.

    So I'm just in the "already does strength training" group and thus only have to go once more next week. It was cool though because China and Japan's elite athletes were using the track as their base for Friday onwards. Great to sit in the cafe and watch them blitz past.

    Its a nice area Dr. Dan but I couldnt live near that rail crossing - it goes every 15 mins or so for about 5 minutes because both ways go into London!

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Amazing track session tonight.

    5 x 600m [1 min]

    [2 mins]

    5 x 200m [1 mins]

    First time all summer I have done the endurance session rather than flat out speedwork. Aim is to carry some of my recently gained speed over longer distances in the next 6-8 weeks.

    Anyway times were:
    2:20, 2:17, 2:13, 2:14, 2:09 for the 600m's
    36, 36, 37, 36, 36 for the 200m's

    I felt so comfortable, despite doing weights and plyo's this morning. Was almost catching the fast boys as well! Could definitely have done a few more reps. Next time!



  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well done Curly, sounds like a great session. 

    Did 4 miles this evening- notionally at easy pace but actually came out just under 8:30 pace, so a little bit faster than easy pace range.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Good stuff Curly!

    Well done on getting in the 4 Andrew.

    20:08 parkrun for me which is back to where I was... thought I was losing the top gear after the last few weeks.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Nice work Dr. Dan - did you push for the sub 20 or not?

    27:59 for me on pacing duties for 28 minutes as part of a 12 mile long run (dont laugh thats my long run at the moment). We are going to watch the marathons tomorrow and then have tickets to the evening so will only get a shorter run in. Still will hit 40 for the week which is fine at the moment.

    Nice pace for an easy run Andrew.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Enjoy the spectating! Jealous!!! 

    I lost sub 20 in the 2nd and 3rd km but at that stage I expected to fade as I have done in recent weeks. But, knowing Chris Jones was behind me somewhere clearly motivated me as I was bang on 12 at 3 and 16 at 4 ... but that final km at Leeds WM is tough - uphill and very congested. Need to be st 15:50 at 4 to have a chance. Touristing in Kent next week so will look for a flat one!
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